Would You Forgive your Killer .. Or Would Your Ghost Get Even ?

Several years ago now, I went with a friend to admire the view from the top of an old dam. Glorious hot day with the water as calm as glass and trees on the far side reflected perfectly in the still water.

Leading out from the shore was a raised walkway that ended in an ornate building that was once the old pump-house.

While my friend was investigating the pump-house, I stood on the bank, gazing at the still water. Suddenly, I got the chills and my mind showed me a vision of a girl being bound in chains and dumped into the weeds and deep, dark waters of the dam. I saw bikers .. drinking and laughing after raping the girl and tossing her, screaming, to her watery grave. Then I saw whitened bones, still entangled in the chains.

I was filled with sorrow and gazed into the water where it seemed I could see the girl's sad face looking up at me through the reeds.

When my mind cleared, the calm waters no longer seemed beautiful. Although the sun was still shining brightly, it nevertheless seemed as if the scene had darkened. It was a sad place .. ominous .. secretive and vile.

I was anxious for my friend to return, so we could leave.

After that, the place depressed me and I avoided it, but as an experiment, I drove someone out there one day. Didn't tell them anything about the vision I'd received. Wanted to know if they felt anything amiss. The place was outwardly beautiful as always, but after only a few minutes, they suggested we depart. Then, as we drove away, they said: ' Someone died there, didn't they ? ' So it seemed I wasn't the only one to feel death in the atmosphere of the place.

Ever since, when I've remembered the incident, I've felt guilty about not doing anything on behalf of the murdered girl who seemed to exist there. I tried, but was unable to find any information about a missing girl in connection with the dam.

Maybe one day a psychic will be drawn there and will be brave enough to establish contact with the girls's spirit and in this way may be able to learn more and possibly bring the murderer's to justice.

A number of 'psychic detective' tv shows and books claim the dead provide information about their killers to psychics and in this way, some crimes are solved and the victims vindicated.

This suggests that not all who've died at the hands of murderers forgive their killers, but instead seek justice.

Whether or not this is true, I can't say. But it does raise the question, would you forgive your killer ... or would your ghost seek justice, even revenge ?

It depends...

If I was the father in Holloway’s case I would find it hard to do, and I'm not that religious to let god sort it all out. I do understand this could be wrong and even hypocritical, but I think most have a limit as to what would push them to other means than the legal system, especially when it breaks down under its own limitations. Most those that might have the desire do not have the will or means, but in my case of 28 years in the military I have it all, and so would the ghost of who was killed help me...I hope so.

[edit on 9-2-2008 by Xtrozero]

If I was in that sort of a situation, I wouldn't give the police info, I'd just haunt the guy myself. After a while of tormenting him, I'd probably just leave him alone and watch over my loved ones which I'd have left behind. Do what I could to ease their life and stuff.

Interesting and thank you, Voidmaster and Xtrozero.

If someone stole or smashed our car .. ransacked our home ... beat up our child -- then we wouldn't walk away from it -- most of us wouldn't, anyway. We'd pursue the matter through court or otherwise. We'd want restitution and would want the perpetrator to be punished .. to be forced to face the consequences of his/her actions.

So it's not unreasonable that many of us would feel similarly outraged or coldly determined, if someone stole our life. After all, with us gone, our families would suffer too, to varying degrees.

I would hope I could, but hope isn't the same as doing something, because lets face it, perhaps we loose all sense after death, particularly if the event is traumatic.

Although, the bible suggests that the dead are in the grave and cannot communicate with us, thus meaning that ghostly apparitions are either reflections or dimensional in nature (and poltergeists are IMO daemonic). So, if that is the case, then its unlikely a reflection could get even, but I suppose if it's traumatic enough the killer themselves would be haunted by the memory of it, and perhaps return to the scene and see the 'spirit' enough to feel ashamed and scared.

I remember visiting Pearl Harbour on a vacation once, and I NEVER want to go there again, it was such a disturbing place, deadly quiet even when everyone was talking and urrgghh, it just creeped me out so much and I'd never even really heard about it before we visited (I was young, sue me!) but you can tell that a lot of people died there and that something unpleasant was 'in the air', whether that be a commuity sorrow that has taken shape or from the dead themselves, I don't know, but either way, I'm never going there again, it was too unpleasant on my psyche.

reply to post by ejsaunders


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Very profound post ... thank you sincerely.

I imagine there are many places on the globe that have seen traumatic events of similar magnitude .. Flanders in France and the horrifying waste of life in Normandy .. so many others. They talk of environmental toxins having half-lives of millions of years and perhaps places such as Pearl Harbour, where such cataclysmic loss of life occurred, are spiritually 'scarred' to a similar degree and will require eons before the echoes subside.

I would forgive my killer but I don't know if my ghost would ever get over being killed prematurely. It's hard to say because I thought as a ghost one would be free from anything linked to this world. I guess if my ghost happens to stay around then justice needs to be served and sure my ghost would haunt the 'killers' until the balance between both parties involved has been restored.

I would forgive them, and I can promise you that when you die, you will no longer care about what happened in your life(and subsequent death) on Earth. You will move on to bigger and better things. You could probably stay and haunt your killer, but that would really be a waste of your time, because I am a big time believer in "what goes around comes around". Rest assured that they will get what is coming to them sooner or later.

Originally posted by Dock6
Whether or not this is true, I can't say. But it does raise the question, would you forgive your killer ... or would your ghost seek justice, even revenge ?

Forgive. Always. It's the only way. It sets you free. I have forgiven some heinous things I don't really want to go into but my experience has led me to the understanding that forgiveness is the path, however hard or long it takes.

If my killer sought forgiveness he'd be forgiven. If his path took him on to kill more people, I may have to intervene.

Definitely retribution!!!

Barely a week passes that some murder or injustice happens to an innocent victim.
Headline news usually fails to shock anymore as desensitisation of society deepens.
Soft sentences for crimes of random violence are a U.K. norm. The system is soft and the justice system is an embaressment to all decent members of society. In short, the system fails and deterents are weak to say the least.
I would hope that once my essence moved on to an extra-dimensional state there would be sufficient energy and motive for retribution.... and heaven help the 'target' who was responsible for my death.
If it is possible to retain physical manifestaion abilities I'd haunt the killer ruthlessly, hopefully to the point of his suicide and into the beyond.
Next, payback time for more of societys human vermin.
Yes, a spiritual vigilante would be on the loose .... ..... !

Originally posted by anglosaxon
If it is possible to retain physical manifestaion abilities I'd haunt the killer ruthlessly, hopefully to the point of his suicide and into the beyond.
Next, payback time for more of societys human vermin.
Yes, a spiritual vigilante would be on the loose .... ..... !

I think a lot of people on Earth would refer to this description as a Demon.

Personally, that's not my belief system and I don't blame you for feeling that way, just sayin'.

[edit on 10/2/08 by Prote]

Weird as it may sound, I agree with so many of your responses, even though they're very different in some instances.

It's always been 'too' easy for me to forgive. Came naturally. And as a result, I was often considered 'soft', a fool, a pushover, etc.

Quite often, those I forgave (it's not always something you say. Sometimes you show forgiveness by continuing to treat in a normal, friendly way, the person who's betrayed, robbed, lied about, you, etc.) .. went on to further rob, lie about, betray, etc. And again, I forgave automatically. This went on and on.

Who was 'learning' anything from this ... anyone know ? I thought about it and it seemed to me (although I may be wrong) that neither party was learning or gaining a thing. These people continued doing me wrong. I continued brushing it aside, making allowances, forgiving.

So, I was taking a beating. They were administering the beating (lying to and about, taking from, etc.)

I KNEW how to forgive. I KNEW how to make allowances for those who for whatever reasons operated in less than honest, ethical manner. I KNEW how to understand others and show tolerance. I KNEW how to turn the other cheek. I KNEW how to lead by example. I KNEW that forgiving without making a big deal of it might .. just might ... encourage people to favour their 'better side'.

What did THEY know ? They knew they could get away with taking advantage of me or whomever.

I read a book, written by researchers of the failure of 'rehabilitation'. And as far as the experts were concerned, offenders ONLY care when it is THEY who stand to lose .. to suffer. That was a sobering realisation.

So, I engaged in a little experiment. I'd seen enough 'small' behaviour to know how to practice it. The 'tit for tat' stuff. I'd seen people repay like with like. It had always seemed pointless to me .. after all, two wrongs don't make a right.

Truth is though, whether I liked it or not .. I was forced to admit that it 'works' ... the ' If someone hurts you .. hurt them back because it's the only way they learn' philosophy. It went against the grain and was really hard to carry out. But yes .. it works. Depressing, isn't it ?

To my consternation ... I was accorded more respect when I slapped back at those who'd slapped me. THAT was something they understood and recognised. *Instant* results, too ... compared with the 'try and try again with people' approach I'd followed before.

So I have two 'selves' now: the authentic 'me', who forgives as easily as breathing. And the assumed 'me', who, if compelled to do so, will give as good as I get. Which 'me' arises in each instance depends on the type I'm dealing with.

I read in one of Stuart Wilde's little books that "not everything walking around on two legs is human ", etc. I didn't like it. Let's face it .. it's pretty harsh. But it goes a long way to explaining those shocking headlines .. those about three men who kidnap a mother from her home, drive her two hundred miles away, repeatedly rape and torture her and then draw staws to see who'll have the fun of shooting her first, after which, they desecrate her body horribly, set fire to it and leave it in a gully for vermin and flies .. and for her family to have to identify.

Some people .. despite walking around on two legs .. are basically meat on the hoof. They have low intelligence, no respect for anyone and who knows if they possess what I'd regard as a soul or any redeeming qualities.

Do I owe it to them or to myself or to God, to lay down and give them repeated opportunities to waste my time and life or those of my family and loved ones ? Do I ? I decided the answer was 'no'. That is God's province. The same God who laid waste to entire cities, according to the Bible, because certain (not all) of the city's inhabitants had offended him. God is a vengeful God. Not only that .. God supposedly made me the way I am.

So these days, although I still rarely if ever throw the first punch .. I'm as likely as not to retaliate if someone takes a shot at me. Because I know that's the only way some people learn .. learn to steer clear of me and anyone or anything I value. i'm no longer in the rehabilitation business.

Don't know what my spirit would do if someone murdered me. At base, I'm pretty philosophical, I think. And I guess it would depend on where I went after death. If it entailed the tunnel and light and welcoming loved-ones, etc. of NDE fame .. then I might not care a damn about the 'hows' and 'whys' of my death. Leave it in God's hands or whatever. On the other hand, if after death I found myself disembodied and unclaimed, then who knows what my spirit might decide to do. What I can say is, it would be a very stupid individual who put it to the test by murdering me, lol.

If someone murdered someone I love, on the other hand .. well, suffice to say, there would be nowhere .. nowhere .. for them to hide. I would give them hell, quite literally, for eternity .. and then some. I think.

reply to post by Dock6


An interesting, and disturbing story...actually kind of freaked me out, but would my ghost get revenge?

hmm...if I was murdered and thrown in a lake...hell yes. Justice would equal revenge to me if I was killed in a horrible way like that.

Has anyone tried rigging their soul to use the energy released upon death to fire itself into the body their killer and take possession of them? dont know if it will work but theres no harm in trying

Originally posted by HuntaXX
Has anyone tried rigging their soul to use the energy released upon death to fire itself into the body their killer and take possession of them? dont know if it will work but theres no harm in trying

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Interesting concept!
Two souls/spirits taking joint occupancy in one human body.
Now that could be interesting
If this was feasable a battle of wills to control the host body and manipulate the thoughts and actions of the killer could be piloted from the more determined host.
Wow! ... a living hell for them.... What goes around comes around!

Ive heard stories in the past that could only be explained if somebody had succeeded in doing this so i think its very possible. im also trying to find a way to break reincarnation and either go somewhere else after death or be reborn with my past life memories intact

To answer the topic; what a strange thought. It's like "Would you forgive someone who gives you endless luxuries and a great mansion to live near a beautiful lake, in a peaceful and clean environment"?

It's like asking "Would you forgive someone for giving you 8 billion dollars?"...

I would be THANKING "my" killer, for a very long time, and trying to shower him/her with anything good that is in my power to give.. I would shower the killer with thanks and praises, and dedicate the rest of his/her incarnation to protecting him/her from harm..

I would kiss his/her feet every day, and when he/she comes to astral world, I would give him/her a warm welcome hug and joyfully help him/her in anything he/she needs or wishes to have help with.

I would be completely grateful to them for letting me FREE from this awful prison planet into the wonderful, glorious astral plane, where I would be free to travel to other galaxies and create beautiful art in vast amounts, and all that..

Why would anyone ever even think about "forgiving" in a situation like that?

It's like someone teleports you from prison to freedom, and you are asked: "Will you forgive your liberator?" ..

It's most illogical to ask that. And my only answer would be: There's nothing to forgive, but lots to thank for, so it would be impossible to 'forgive' anything just like it would be impossible to "forgive" someone who greatly eases your life and does you a wonderful favor.

Just to give another perspective by adding a little fact:

People who have experienced OOBE, and near-death-experience, are usually NEVER obviously grateful to the doctors and other people who have "saved their lives" - but instead, are horrified that they have to come back, that they have to continue living in THIS world.. they are so disappointed that they get depressed and cannot even bring themselves to thank those who everyone thinks they should be thanking.

It's like "thanks for forcefully bringing me back into the cold, dark and gloomy prison, when I was perfectly content in playing with wild deers in the freedom of the forest"..

They are so shocked and horrified that it can take them months just to adjust to the fact that yes, this is their life now.. this is where they must continue living, and so on. They feel as if the 'doctors' (or whoever it may be) have done them a terrible, terrible disservice - a horrible prank, an awful damage... and they feel weird that they should be "thankful" for that!

And understandably so.. this world's values are SO out of whack, that people treat death as if it's something horrible, when it's completely the opposite (it's wonderful - it's the best day of the dier's (if such a word can be used) life - counting of course from the beginning of the incarnation!). People here have distanced themselves so far from natural things and natural ways and attitudes of dealing with natural things... that anything and everything is a 'shock' and an awful, scary thing to them - when in fact, it's just joy, bliss and pure wonder all the way...

Sickness of this world, it's "cultures" and it's people must be blamed for this distortion - but it doesn't alter the fact, that death is just as natural as birth (it's polar opposite), and there is nothing that can end life - life has no opposite, because death is the opposite of BIRTH, not life. Life also has no opposite because life is eternal - it is an ongoing "one" - just like energy has no opposite. There is no anti-life or anti-energy. There's either life and energy, or lack of life and energy.

Hm, I could use this small bridge to start explaining about how light is real, and darkness isn't, because darkness is just a word invented to describe a very tiny amount of light (there's always some amount), and basically 'darkness' just means 'lack of light' - and thus can't be produced or generated or created - I mean, there is no 'darkness bulb', you can't create "black light" that would be stronger than regular light - and "light" and "darkness" are not as strong, or balanced - light always beats darkness.. but I have already gone off the track long enough, so I won't. Otherwise this post could start reminding of some kind of 'mindflow' - but this of course acts as some kind of an example of how everything is really connected..

I mean, I could probably bounce from one topic to a relatively similar, pseudo-relevant topic to another until I end up talking about sundried tomatoes in relation to the crop circles.

I identity tag the killer and learn what it takes to completely destroy a corporeal human's mind as long as the guy lives, and then I'd greet him as he crossed over, and lead him to his eternal hell.

Of course, I'd warn him of this before he did something so stupid as to kill me. To hopefully prevent the murder, of course, but also to prepare him for a full understanding of what would follow, so that he'd suffer that much more.