Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by _Phoenix_

 

What you consider personal questions I consider critical questions to determine whether or not someone is being honest or deceptive, and you clearly proved to me that you are being deceptive.


If you do not want me to chose a side, then stop insulting me, and stop trying to play me for a fool, because I, like most others, will only tolerate this for so long before I take action, and I will do everything that needs to be done to protect myself and my loved ones from having to live in fear. You will then find out what this Yank can do.

I really don't know what you problem is, insulting you!?
Being deceptive!?

You've got problems, I'm not going to bother with you anymore. Bye.

Notice that us westerner's who call for defending our beliefs and our culture are labeled as the aggressors, racists, and the antagonists. We are the ones who have divided the people into groups and are choosing sides, not the ones who are screaming about being insulted, randomly inciting and actively carrying out violence.

I don't know if anyone has bothered to read the articles I posted, but the one written by a Muslim scholar was very impressive.

www.opinionjournal.com...

Text Blue

The Catholics were once as aggressive as the Muslims are today, if not more aggressive, and the Catholic church reformed, there is no reason to believe that the Muslim religion can not also reform, and cast off it's radical elements.

I am still working on using the font tools. Let me try this again.

www.opinionjournal.com...

Yet it is ironic and discouraging that many non-Muslim, Western intellectuals--who unceasingly claim to support human rights--have become obstacles to reforming Islam. Political correctness among Westerners obstructs unambiguous criticism of Shariah's inhumanity. They find socioeconomic or political excuses for Islamist terrorism such as poverty, colonialism, discrimination or the existence of Israel. What incentive is there for Muslims to demand reform when Western "progressives" pave the way for Islamist barbarity? Indeed, if the problem is not one of religious beliefs, it leaves one to wonder why Christians who live among Muslims under identical circumstances refrain from contributing to wide-scale, systematic campaigns of terror.

The tendency of many Westerners to restrict themselves to self-criticism further obstructs reformation in Islam. Americans demonstrate against the war in Iraq, yet decline to demonstrate against the terrorists who kidnap innocent people and behead them. Similarly, after the Madrid train bombings, millions of Spanish citizens demonstrated against their separatist organization, ETA. But once the demonstrators realized that Muslims were behind the terror attacks they suspended the demonstrations. This example sent a message to radical Islamists to continue their violent methods.

Western appeasement of their Muslim communities has exacerbated the problem. During the four-month period after the publication of the Muhammad cartoons in a Danish magazine, there were comparatively few violent demonstrations by Muslims. Within a few days of the Danish magazine's formal apology, riots erupted throughout the world. The apology had been perceived by Islamists as weakness and concession.

reply to post by _Phoenix_


I understand boy. You would rather not talk about these things.

Still, I highly recommend you read the article I refer to in the previous post.

reply to post by poet1b


Ok I change my mind, as long as you stop making things up about me, or assuming things about me that are not true, I may carry on discussion.

reply to post by poet1b


In my opinion people don't demostrate against terrorists because terrorists are unreasonable, they are crazy! you can't reason with them.

These terrorists have killed MORE muslims than anyone else! They are our enemy! more to us than you! Yeah we can protest against them, they would probably bomb the protest lol, they don't care who they kill. They are not real muslims, they go against everything Islam is about.

Oh by the way I have seen many muslim people talk out against terrorists, on tv etc, you just don't see it much because media only likes bad stuff.

Here's just one example, pakistan singers come together and show the world we are not them, we are not terrorists.

Please check it out, it's nice, it may be refreshing for you.

We are not them
www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...


I'm telling you now, if things come to the worst, we muslims would stand by you and help.

reply to post by _Phoenix_


LOL, well, it is good that you at least have a sense of humor. At least the west is having some influence on you.

I am not making anything up about you, I am making observations, creating hypothesis, and testing those hypothesis. I fully explained my logic. Please tell me where I am wrong, or let it go, and continue on with the discussion.

reply to post by poet1b


I let it go.

Of course I'm westernised I was born and raised in the UK, I may look more western than you may imagine.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by poet1b
Just because you live in a western nation, does not necessarily mean you are a westerner. Plenty of people choose to continue living in the dark ages, even when they do not have to.

I'll remind you that it was the Arabs who preserved the classical wisdom of the Greeks and Romans during the Western Dark Ages.

I think you commit a serious bit of arrogance if you try to define a Westerner as somebody who chooses not to live in the dark ages. Lots of WASPs who could learn a little about humanity. But you know that...you're not stupid.

reply to post by _Phoenix_


I agree with what you are saying about terrorists who are hiding among the Muslim population. There are many admirable things about the Muslim religion, especially the effort they place in raising their children. AS always, it is a few bad apples that are spoiling the whole bunch.

Non-Muslims, and especially non-Muslim whites, can not infiltrate the Muslim community. It is extremely difficult for us to determine who are the terrorists, and who are the decent human beings. This means that the Muslims within each Muslim community must be the ones who out the radicals.

Everyone needs to stop apologizing for these animals.

In addition, Muslims need to start working towards integrating with the people of the nations in which they live. They should allow their children to choose the religion they want to follow, to choose who they want to marry. People do fall in love with others who are from different cultures, especially when they live next door, unless they are kept under lock and key. Why should the father of one be allowed to dictate the beliefs of the other. If you are going to keep your daughter under lock and key, then keep your son under lock and key as well, but far better yet, give them both the same freedom, and start being good neighbors.

Most importantly, stop trying to pretend that these things do not matter.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by _Phoenix_

 

Non-Muslims, and especially non-Muslim whites, can not infiltrate the Muslim community. It is extremely difficult for us to determine who are the terrorists, and who are the decent human beings. This means that the Muslims within each Muslim community must be the ones who out the radicals.

Everyone needs to stop apologizing for these animals.


Most importantly, stop trying to pretend that these things do not matter.

"It is extremely difficult for us to determine who are the terrorists, and who are the decent human beings. "

Yes it is for muslims too, they are such a minority how can you find them?

Nobody is apologizing? who?

When did I pretend that these things don't matter?

Like I said earlier I can discuss these things with you, but please ease up with the confusing comments that assume things.

Oh and your comment about muslim marriage, well it's partly true, and it's also very wrong, Yes it happens. But most of the time people know the person they are going to marry, it was their decison. If the parents DO arrange, the two meet up a few times, get to know each other and then they make their OWN choice.

Forced marriage is wrong, but it happens, but don't assume it's normal.




[edit on 12-2-2008 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Your historical perspective is off. Rome was long gone before the rise of the Muslim religion.

Westerner's are the people who emerged from the dark ages created by the Catholic church. Lets not forget that the religions of the Greeks and the Romans were wiped out by Middle Eastern religions once before, leading to the dark ages. Do we want to repeat history?

While Western civilization is far from perfect, we have managed to do some great things, and certainly are currently the most advanced culture at this time. I know, it is politically incorrect to say this, and that is the biggest problem going right now. While there certainly is plenty of room for improvement, there is nothing wrong with admitting that we occasionally get something right, nor is it wrong for us to turn as harsh an eye on others that we turn on each other.

Wrong is wrong, no matter what color your are, wouldn't you agree.

reply to post by _Phoenix_


I haven't confused a thing, I have been spot on.

The more the Muslim population integrates into the Western culture, the easier it will be to identify the radicals. This is the heart of the dilemma.

Really, you leave no choice to the west.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by _Phoenix_

 

I haven't confused a thing, I have been spot on.

Maybe you should start changing the way you think, because you haven't been spot on about anything on me.

reply to post by _Phoenix_


Oh, with that answer I am completely convinced, and I change my mind about everything.

Then again, you haven't exactly made a case to make me think otherwise. I have just voiced what others are thinking, just not going to bother to admit.

What do you think about the article that I quoted. Any comments on this? Personally I don't buy your claims that Muslims are incapable or rooting out radicals in their midst. You continue to tip toe around the critical points that that are at the heart of the conflict between Westerner's and Muslims.

Originally posted by poet1b
What do you think about the article that I quoted. Any comments on this? Personally I don't buy your claims that Muslims are incapable or rooting out radicals in their midst. You continue to tip toe around the critical points that that are at the heart of the conflict between Westerner's and Muslims.

Please excuse me for interjecting myself in between this very interesting conversation, but I had a few questions. I'm curious as to what exactly you mean by 'rooting out'. Should we be going into random muslim people's houses and start interrogating them over whether they'd like sharia law to be implemented, or think that Israel should be destroyed? If you find out they are 'radical', then what you want to do? Take them out and shoot them? Jail them for their opinions? Not until someone has actually done something wrong (planned a bombing, funded some terrorist group), or is connected with the wrong people. Witch-hunt tactics won't accomplish anything other than bring further condemnation and hatred.

Aside from that, I'm fairly amused at your us-them attitude- taking these 'muslim' people as something different, something inferior to the glorious 'westerners'. You'd be interested to know that there are a fairly large number of 'westerner' muslims, born, raised and educated in the west- some who didn't even have contact with the islamic world before they converted- who are very devout.

[edit on 13-2-2008 by babloyi]

Originally posted by poet1b

... Personally I don't buy your claims that Muslims are incapable or rooting out radicals in their midst.

That sentence got me to thinking....



a few of you will remember the decades long war of terror which the
Catholics & Protestants had going on in Northern Ireland.

i think that the local community knew full well just who the radical
persons were, but the general community did not 'root' the radical
militants out... same thing goes on now with the radical Muslims


There is another example to explore and consider, the Mafia...
generally devout Catholics generally having root in Sicily
The community 'knew' who were Mafia, but they would be in the church pews, sitting side-by-side with someone who last night likely shot someone in the performance of their Mafia duties.
So to it is with the larger Musilm community of today...
the guys who just placed an IED in a market place in Baghdad for example
is praying beside another faithful but non radical in the Mosque.

It wasn't anyone's place to 'root' out the Sein Fein or the Mafiaso in the past
nor the Insurgents in the Muslim world of today,


That's the task of the detectives, military, FBI, and other professionals...
unless of course one want's to jeopardize their family and relatives to harm.

Ah, I see, the solution is that we should all ignore the terrorists in our midst. Muslims will pretend that they can not identify terrorists in their midst, and non-muslims will do the same, and will all live politically correctly in terror blowing up each others churches and family gatherings, and shooting down each other like the mafia. Good ole gang land violence is the solution.

I see, great solution, much better than a frank discussion. What ever you do, at all costs, do not give an honest opinion. Have any of you brilliantly insightful people read the articles I provided? Excuse me for thinking, but in my opinion the Muslim religion is as barbaric as the Catholic religion was several centuries ago, and that this religion brings violence and terrorism where ever it goes, and anyone who is paying attention to the events of this world is quite aware of this. I think you have to be several bricks short of a full load to practice it. The Muslim religion is not the only religion I don't care for, I really don't care for the Catholic religion, and many other Christian denominations, The Mormons, and the Church of Scientology for that matter, but none of these groups are spreading terrorism worldwide and strong arming inductees. If you want to bury your head in the sand go ahead.

God Bless the Danish, at least they are trying to be proactive.

As one observer noted, currently in the west, our family court system has decided that men do not have rights when it comes to the family in the western world. This is the most dangerous thing. This is the kind of system that encourages men to start thinking that maybe we should return to the days when women were treated like property. This is the real appeal of the Muslim religion.

No need to divorce you wife. Concentrate on conformity, moving your way up in the community, and the heck with individualism. Once you get yourself into a nice position every so many years you can marry yourself an nice thirteen year old by providing some poor wretch a political favor. Slowly Western civilization will grind to a halt once again. Except this time instead of just stagnating, we will be left will all this nuclear capability, and all this science to run amuck, and it won't be long before one fanatic decides to nuke another fanatic, or release biological weapons, or just keep firing up the coal plants until the whole planet is one ecological disaster, eventually some alien species will reach our planet and do what is natural, turn us into cattle or slaves.

By all means, stick with the whole politically correct way of avoiding any frank discussion. Step aside vanity, political correctness must be the most clever tool the devil has ever invented.

By the way, not one of you has a clue what my religious beliefs are, you just continue to accuse me of all kinds radical beliefs.

This is a point that so many seem to miss.

Power has its way of attracting people of questionable character. I know, this might sound like an outlandish proposition to some of you, but unfortunately it is true. The technologically advanced nations of the world generate enormous wealth, which gives people in positions of power in the western world even more power in the undeveloped nations of the world. Most nations are not economically successful because the people in power in general are on average more corrupt than the people in power in developed nations, and they have substantially more power over the general population. The corrupt people in positions of power in the developed nations get together with the corrupt people in power in the undeveloped nations, and wrack even more misery upon the people of these undeveloped nations.

The people of these undeveloped nations see that these giant corporations from the developed nations are exploiting them, and then blame the people of the developed for their poverty. Now, not all people in these third world nations see things this way, but many do.

Then, along comes the Muslim religion to tell the people of the undeveloped nations that the Western Nations are the product of Satan, and that all the success of the western nations is because they stole everything from the good people of the third world. I know the politically correct who read this will be aghast at such a suggestion, but this has been openly declared many times. This is a very seductive belief. It is their fault that we live in poverty. They have not done anything better than we have done, they (the developed western nations) have stolen from us, and that is why they are so successful. The people of the third world watch "The Simpsons" on their televisions provided by western science, and that is all the proof they need.

The people of the developed nations who lust for even more power see this and smile. They recognize what a great tool religion is for controlling the masses, and they look at the Muslim religion, and they see gold.

Go ahead and continue to be politically correct, go ahead and continue to push the politics of victimhood. It is much easier than standing up for what is right, searching for the truth, or taking responsibility for your own actions.

Oh well, time to get off my soap box.