Originally posted by Damien_Hell
I was discussing religious persecution, I was saying that Christians have no right to bitch because they have been and are persecuting more people than any other group in the world (thats including Muslims btw)

What you just said doesn't make a lot of sense. I think you and I can both agree that things like the Inquisition was inexcusable, correct? Well please tell me what Christians in China have to do with this. Did they kill anyone? Did they torture anyone? No. They are the victims. They did not participate in the Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials, or the other large scale atrocities that happened centuries ago than you love bringing up over and over again.

If atheists started being put to death just for the sake of being atheists I couldn't imagine being ignorant enough to say, "Well, they deserve it due to what atheistic communist regimes have done in the world." Or if American decided to place American Muslims into concentration camps, "Well they were responsible for 9/11." Actually, no they were not. The people who committed such acts are responsible- not those that happen to share the same belief system.

What you just said doesn't make a lot of sense. I think you and I can both agree that things like the Inquisition was inexcusable, correct? Well please tell me what Christians in China have to do with this. Did they kill anyone? Did they torture anyone? No. They are the victims. They did not participate in the Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials, or the other large scale atrocities that happened centuries ago than you love bringing up over and over again.

Its the whole religion thats the problem, and being part of it makes you part of the problem

If atheists started being put to death just for the sake of being atheists I couldn't imagine being ignorant enough to say, "Well, they deserve it due to what atheistic communist regimes have done in the world."

Again, Atheism and communism, VERY DIFFERENT. No reflection on each other

Or if American decided to place American Muslims into concentration camps, "Well they were responsible for 9/11." Actually, no they were not. The people who committed such acts are responsible- not those that happen to share the same belief system.

Nah America will stick to blowing up the citizens in the middle east

[edit on 11-2-2008 by Damien_Hell]

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
Its the whole religion thats the problem, and being part of it makes you part of the problem

No, it's certain people- not the Christian faith. Christ taught love, turning the other cheek, peace, loving our enemies, etc. That is what we are supposed to do. Do you think love, peace, and forgiveness is a problem? I doubt it because you don't seem to be deranged. It seems your problems lie with certain individuals who totally distort what Christianity is about and not Christianity itself. So why should those who do follow Christ's teachings of love pay for the nut jobs? It's illogical to say such a thing. The people who are responsible for atrocities should be held accountable.

What you're basically saying would be like this: Since black people are responsible for a large portion of crime, then it's acceptable to kill black law abiding citizens to pay for what all the black criminals have done. If you say such a thing you'd be called a racist for lumping everyone into the same group. So why lump all religious believers into one group? It's an equally biased thing to say. Not harping at you, Hon- just trying to get you to see how you are coming across. Much love to you.

[edit on 2/11/2008 by AshleyD]

No, it's certain people- not the Christian faith. Christ taught love, turning the other cheek, peace, loving our enemies, etc.

Read the WHOLE bible, you'll see thats only one side of the coin

What you're basically saying would be like this: If black people make up the majority of prison inmates, then it's acceptable to kill black law abiding citizens to pay for what all the black criminals have done.

No just the rappers, their the cause in the same way the bible is the cause of Christian prejudice, you remove rappers and the bible and BAM the worlds a better place

If you say such a thing you'd be called a racist

Wouldn't be the first time

So why lump all religious believers into one group? It's an equally biased thing to say.

No cause Christians choose to be Christians, blacks don't have a choice

Men, down threw history, have done horrendous things to women.
Therefore, according to your logic, all men should suffer.

Logic!

Originally posted by AshleyD
Not as retarded as I found Lilitu's comment referring to Christians as blood cultists.

Doesn't christianity teach that Jesus was the (sacrificial) "Lamb of God", the Passover Lamb, that his blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat as a ransom for the sins of many? Yes it does but it gets worse for we aren't talking about a real lamb but a human being. Human blood sacrifice. Oh and it gets downright homo-erotic when you consider that this human sacrifice was a male virgin! This is far worse than scatological! It is so absolutely depraved that I cannot think of a term bad enough to fully describe it but I think Michael Welner is going to have to add a new level to his Scale of Depravity.

Recently I was channel surfing and came upon a christian station with some wild-eyed raving preacher who was praying thusly...

...the blood, the blood, the blood, the blood, the blood,...Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus,...Jesus thank you for the blood lord Jesus, thank you for washing us in your blood...

Sick stuff. Now I don't know, I'm not very smart but all of the above certainly suggests very strongly that christianity is indeed a blood cult, and that would tend to make its adherents "blood-cultists" would it not? You may not like it and you can deny it all you like. Just rip those parts out of bible.

Originally posted by undo
Men, down threw history, have done horrendous things to women.
Therefore, according to your logic, all men should suffer.

Logic!

No cause guys don't have a choice, if your a guy your a guy, unless you get a sex change but....no,

You're also basically implying if the Christians in China don't want to be persecuted then they should stop being Christians.

Bet you $50 that would work


[edit on 12-2-2008 by Damien_Hell]

No cause guys don't have a choice, if your a guy your a guy, unless you get a sex change but....no,

Yes, they have a choice of whether they hurt women or not. What a cop out.

You're pointing fingers and not even thinking about what it is you're saying.

Originally posted by undo
Yes, they have a choice of whether they hurt women or not. What a cop out.

You're pointing fingers and not even thinking about what it is you're saying.

No YOUR not thinking about what I'm saying. Christianity TELLS YOU to do bad things (before you say it doesn't actually read the WHOLE bible not just the nice parts) being a guy doesn't mean you have to abuse women (unless your Muslim(oooooh how un-PC)) And you have a choice whether or not to be a Christian

[edit on 12-2-2008 by Damien_Hell]

Originally posted by Damien_Hell

No YOUR not thinking about what I'm saying. Christianity TELLS YOU to do bad things (before you say it doesn't actually read the WHOLE bible not just the nice parts) being a guy doesn't mean you have to abuse women (unless your Muslim(oooooh how un-PC)) And you have a choice whether or not to be a Christian

So, what is this, the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and going LALALALA?

The point stands. If an entire group of people can be maligned on the basis of what any member of the group does or has done in the history of that group (we're talking 2000 years of history, that's really fair and logical). (religion is a choice, hurting and abusing women is a choice)
then all men should be held responsible for what some men have done in history

Jesus said, be kind to those less fortunate, turn the other cheek, give to the needy, if someone asks for something, give it to them, and so on. He did not support violence against anyone, not even in defense of your own life. that some folks don't get that part, is not the fault of his teachings. What happened in the old testament is a totally different story and doesn't apply to what Christians follow. We follow the teachings of Christ, that's why we are called Christians and not Moses-ians or something

[edit on 13-2-2008 by undo]

Originally posted by Lilitu
Ah but it's just too bad that Jesus didn't even come close to fulfilling the very strict and specific laws regarding the selection, preparation and sacrificial rituals of the passover lamb. Simply put, Jesus or any other human as the passover lamb is an abomination under the Law of Moses.
[edit on 12-2-2008 by Lilitu]

Name some,
because I'm no expert in Levitical laws regarding Passover.
Give me something to know what you mean, please.

Here is a good question to throw into the mix: Can someone really choose their beliefs? If something makes sense to you and goes into your "database of beliefs," was that really up to you? It goes back to the old adage, "You can't help the way you feel." If Christianity is true to someone, can they force themselves to stop believing in it? People's minds can be changed as well as their beliefs but it seems like a gray area.

If something appears factual to you and you believe it, was it a choice? You might be able to choose to live a Christian life or go to church but can anyone really control whether or not you believe Jesus was the Son of God or not. You either do or you don't. It's almost impossible to wake up one morning and say "I don't think I will believe this anymore." It's either in your heart tugging at you saying 'this is real' or 'this is completely false.' It would sound like denial to disbelieve something in your heart you believe is true.