Originally posted by Lilitu
I neither said or implied I have superior intellect so just whose "perception" is that?

You certainly seemed to imply it in previous comments as well as this one. You equated God with the "tooth fairy," stated your parent's didn't teach you "jackass-silly nonsense," and referred to religious people as "psychotics who promote the god delusion."

It stinks of [pseudo] intellectual superiority.

Originally posted by Lilitu

I neither said or implied I have superior intellect so just whose "perception" is that? Or is this just a feeble ad hominem attack? I think the latter. Regardless, no genius is required to understand that there simply is no such thing as a tooth fairy.

That is your opinion. You can no more prove it accurate than any of us can prove God. In fact, I'd say the odds are in our favor since we have at least 7000 years of human history in which the gods were mentioned by every ancient civ on this planet.

Originally posted by undo
Is it or is it not, the right of all people to believe in whatever god they choose? Does that line stop at christians only?

You are free to believe as you like but that isn't the issue here. Christianity as most religions isn't satiated with mere personal faith. They must transform the whole of society and will marginalize and/or destroy anyone, any culture, any nation who begs to differ. All for a crazy delusion. If we are to progress as a species and meet the challenges of the future, this must end.

Originally posted by Lilitu

You are free to believe as you like but that isn't the issue here. Christianity as most religions isn't satiated with mere personal faith. They must transform the whole of society and will marginalize and/or destroy anyone, any culture, any nation who begs to differ. All for a crazy delusion. If we are to progress as a species and meet the challenges of the future, this must end.

Do you consider yourself a logical individual? If so, you need to be logical about this topic as you are about anything else.

Observe: A belief system incorporates beliefs of all kinds, including the belief that there's no god other than you, yourself. This is worship of Lilitu. Nothing more. And logically, if there are others who feel the same way, they are worshipping themselves as well. Worship means to "work for." If you work for your own benefit and nothing else, you are worshipping YOU. This leads to the same ills, the same deaths, the same tyranny, etc. There's nothing different, logically, from one belief system and another, as it applies to the human condition.

[edit on 11-2-2008 by undo]

Originally posted by undo

That is your opinion. You can no more prove it accurate than any of us can prove God. In fact, I'd say the odds are in our favor since we have at least 7000 years of human history in which the gods were mentioned by every ancient civ on this planet.

Humans been stupid primitive brutes throughout most of our history. Surely that isn't the best case you can make for the existance of gods and other phantasms is it? You know most small children have an imaginary friend for a short time during their development. So imaginary friends must be real eh?

Originally posted by Lilitu

Humans been stupid primitive brutes throughout most of our history. Surely that isn't the best case you can make for the existance of gods and other phantasms is it? You know most small children have an imaginary friend for a short time during their development. So imaginary friends must be real eh?

I beg to differ. I think you've been brainwashed, and I'll tell you why:
When "white men" discovered tribes of aborigines, they thought they were "primitive brutes." They were not. The concept of "primitive" was established on what is considered the "norm" for a society, but that doesn't mean that society is any more advanced universally, than any other society. It just means the guys with the biggest weapons, win and determine who is civilized and who is not. This also happened in America. Do you consider native americans to be uncivilized or uncivilized in the history of their occupation of the american lands? And if so, what is your criteria? You need to think outside the box once in awhile.

Originally posted by undo

Observe: A belief system incorporates beliefs of all kinds, including the belief that there's no god other than you, yourself. This is worship of Lilitu. Nothing more.

That is just asinine. The lack of belief does not constitute a system of belief anymore that a lack of disease constitutes another form of disease.

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by Lilitu

Humans been stupid primitive brutes throughout most of our history. Surely that isn't the best case you can make for the existance of gods and other phantasms is it? You know most small children have an imaginary friend for a short time during their development. So imaginary friends must be real eh?

I beg to differ. I think you've been brainwashed, and I'll tell you why:
When "white men" discovered tribes of aborigines, they thought they were "primitive brutes." They were not. The concept of "primitive" was established on what is considered the "norm" for a society, but that doesn't mean that society is any more advanced universally, than any other society. It just means the guys with the biggest weapons, win and determine who is civilized and who is not. This also happened in America. Do you consider native americans to be uncivilized or uncivilized in the history of their occupation of the american lands? And if so, what is your criteria? You need to think outside the box once in awhile.

Strawman argument. Is this the best I can expect?

Originally posted by Lilitu

Originally posted by undo

Observe: A belief system incorporates beliefs of all kinds, including the belief that there's no god other than you, yourself. This is worship of Lilitu. Nothing more.

That is just asinine. The lack of belief does not constitute a system of belief anymore that a lack of disease constitutes another form of disease.

What do you believe? You believe that there's no god other than you. You are god because you say so, you work for that god (you), you pay homage to that god, you even fight for that god. That's a belief. You as the final authority is no different, logically, than a super or hypernatural being as the final authority. It's all the same and it leads to the same social ills (and has its own particular set of problems). In fact, if you diligently and logically study history, you will find every belief system (including the belief that god is you or god is the government) has been guilty of the same kinds of problems as every other belief system. The common denominator is the human condition

Strawman argument. Is this the best I can expect?

Your basis for your belief that the gods were or are not real entities, is your understanding that they were primitive brutes. I think that's a misconception and have asked you if you think the people you mention were actually primitive brutes. You're brainwashed, friend. If you look even closer, every ancient civ, shares a common thread, as they were all discussing similar events. Why? You mean to tell me, that for 9000 years, everyone lied, was an idiot or hallucinating, but now that we are so smart and think we know everything there is to know, we never lie, and we always have enough data to draw conclusions?

Originally posted by undo

What do you believe? You believe that there's no god other than you. You are god because you say so, you work for that god (you), you pay homage to that god, you even fight for that god. That's a belief. You as the final authority is no different, logically, than a super or hypernatural being as the final authority. It's all the same and it leads to the same social ills (and has its own particular set of problems). In fact, if you diligently and logically study history, you will find every belief system (including the belief that god is you or god is the government) has been guilty of the same kinds of problems as every other belief system. The common denominator is the human condition

Yet another strawman/ad hominem argument and a ridiculous one at that. If you cannot answer what I have said without misrepresentation then please don't bother.

Originally posted by Lilitu


Yet another strawman/ad hominem argument and a ridiculous one at that. If you cannot answer what I have said without misrepresentation then please don't bother.

You wish to play the debate terminology game? Are you sure you want to do that? This will turn into a thread about debate terminology instead of the topic. I can play that game. I really can. In fact, I can pull out facts and figures about human atrocities commited against humans for almost any belief system on this planet. I can prove to you, also, that I neither took part in any of those, nor agreed with them, from a humanitarian perspective and in most cases, a christian perspective as well. What moral principle are you standing on? That you don't like christianity or that because your belief differs, those who disagree with you should suffer? Isn't that the definition of tyranny?



[edit on 11-2-2008 by undo]

The problem with the "I am god" belief system is that it ignores the human condition, which has proven itself to be incapable of being "god" in the first place. Most examples where bad, inhumane decisions were made, God as a supernatural being, was nowhere in the picture. It was due to unbelief and men putting themselves in the God position. They believed they were righteous enough on their own power, to make the kinds of decisions they made, which resulted in loss of life and human suffering and then called it "God's will."

The irony is, those who support the idea that the only god around is themselves, don't realize they are complaining about the very thing they have decided is correct.



[edit on 11-2-2008 by undo]

Originally posted by undo
You wish to play the debate terminology game? Are you sure you want to do that? This will turn into a thread about debate terminology instead of the topic. I can play that game. I really can.

Oh my! Such chest beating!

Can you start by just replying to what I have already said without distortion of it?

Edit to add that it is funny how that if xians cannot force their own beliefs down the throats of thinking people they will attempt to force some other belief system on them such as "Lilitu is god" so that if thaey cannot influence the person at hand they can at least influence what others might think of them. This only strengthens my position that christianity is delusional and harmful.

[edit on 11-2-2008 by Lilitu]

Chest beating? Do you want the data or do you want to engage in ad hominem? I can do that all day too, if you want.

[edit on 11-2-2008 by undo]

Who is the most powerful, influential being in Lilitu's life? who does Lilitu look to for making her important decisions? If in a moral dilemma, what foundational belief system does Lilitu look to for her moral compass (or his, as the case may be).

I'm a woman by the way, just so know you can refer to me as a she and not have to make special olympics to address me.

Originally posted by Clearskies

Originally posted by Lilitu

They knew their actions were illegal in China and that they carried harsh penalties.

"You will be assimilated....."
Thank God we can live free, here, for now.
Men weren't made to live as slaves to the state! Why can't you see that?
Even many God-hating atheists believe in free speech.

God hating Atheist.....ok hands up who here found that statement completely retarded??....ok...ok yah everyone, thats what I thought. You can't hate what doesn't exist, you can't hate Allah or Buddah, that would mean you believe they exist, which you don't thats like hating the tooth fairy or the flying spaghetti monster. Not Santa, hes real

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
God hating Atheist.....ok hands up who here found that statement completely retarded??....

Not as retarded as I found Lilitu's comment referring to Christians as blood cultists. Anyways...

thats like hating the tooth fairy or the flying spaghetti monster. Not Santa, hes real

I really wish you guys would get some new material. The tooth fairy, flying spaghetti monster, and pink unicorns really don't compare to people's belief in God at all. And if you cannot see the logical holes in such analogies then I'd say that's a personal problem.

Well you guys have pretty much proven your immaturity. There was absolutely no reason to burst on the scene with an insulting attitude and to derail the yet another topic by using it to insult Christianity. There are dozens of threads on the topic but you just can't resist proving your ignorance on threads that have nothing to do with that topic, do you? And I am not only addressing you, Damien, but also Little Miss "I hate Christianity and think it's fake but don't even understand the one Bible passage I quote."

Please, people. It's tired now. If you don't want to discuss the persecution of Christians in China or any type of religious persecution taking place in the world then move along and spread your ignorance in a thread that cares.

Please, be honest with yourself.
Do you really fret over people who believe in santa claus or the tooth fairy?

Noones ever killed in the name of Santa or the tooth fairy

Christians seem to be THE only target of radical atheists.

No we go after Muslims too, I don't but thats cause I don't want to get blown up

God is the Real target, because deep down YOU know he's real.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, if I believed god was real why would I target him? Thats stupid. HE MADE THE UNIVERSE! I don't believe god is real, he didn't make the universe, hes not my target

it's much easier to hate than to love and give the truth.)

Biology AND psychology both say your wrong, hating and lieing cause more stain on body and mind then love and truth. Love causes euphoria, hate doesn't. Lies require crafty thinking, truth doesn't

Please, people. It's tired now. If you don't want to discuss the persecution of Christians in China or any type of religious persecution taking place in the world then move along and spread your ignorance in a thread that cares.

I was discussing religious persecution, I was saying that Christians have no right to bitch because they have been and are persecuting more people than any other group in the world (thats including Muslims btw)

[edit on 11-2-2008 by Damien_Hell]