China heightens Christian persecution, page 3

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reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 12:12 PM by Quazga

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by Quazga

Look, if someone had told me the false gospel of "you're just fine the way you are."
Which some did. I would have died long ago of a stroke or brain hemorrage
or overdose from the drugs I partook of Every Day. I was 'walking' dead at 23.
But, I heard a real, old-fashioned preacher.

I was agoraphobic and bi-polar AND depressed and had psychotic features.!
All my counceling DID NOT help or even put a dent in it. Not, to mention the medications, I was on 7 different ones until I began to self medicate and quit.
Lithium, stelazine, tegratol, wellbutrin
xanax for panic attacks, I can't remember them all(It was 16 years ago)I also was suicidal and thought Oh, well, if I die I'll be in heaven. WRONG.
Instead, some preachers (My Uncles)prayed for me and shortly thereafter, I heard the gospel and was saved from my sins(and others' sins) and saved from hell!
I knew Jesus was there with me in my bedroom, with noone else, no T.V.
or anything. He gave me the biggest hug I have ever had and cleaned me up from my baggage and heavy weights on my shoulders.
THANK GOD, it wasn't illegal to have the unadulterated truth shown on T.V.
(Because I didn't go to church!)
Jesus' life-changing abilities are too precious to keep to yourself, when you know others need it. Even in China!

[edit on 8-2-2008 by Clearskies]

Obviously, given your habits at the time you did not mentally feel as if you were fine as you were. If you had felt that way, you would have stopped all of the contorl based addictions you had.

That's not a false gospel, it is the Good News! I'm glad that you picked yourself up and dusted yourself off, but have you ever read Ecclesiastes?

Take a gander at that and tell me again how important it is that we force others to comply with what we think is right.

I'm so tired of these people who have no idea what their religion is even based on.

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 06:32 PM by vox2442

reply to post by Clearskies

How did the USA treat that Koresh fellow down in Waco? I mean, on one hand, he was just a guy practicing a form of christianity outside the mainstream, wasn`t he?

I know it`s a bit of a harsh comparison, but the thing is, we don`t know the whole story.

We do know the numbers, though - of an estimated 40,000,00 - 54,000,000 practicing christians in China, there were a little over 700 cases of "persecution", by the OP`S link. Of that, a little over 100 were foreign missionaries (and that could be anything from undercover spying, to simple visa issues). So we`re left with 600 Chinese out of 40-54 million. A distinct minority.

With numbers like that, I have to wonder what all of the facts of the story are. Something is not being said here. Simply pointing the finger at the Chinese government - or any government, for that matter - in these circumstances - is irresponsible, in my opinion.

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 06:49 PM by undo

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

or Muslims, or Hindus, or Tengriists... Oh, and just try to be a practicing Taoist in China... Taoism has had a sword at its throat since the inception of Legalist doctrine. And of course there's all the numerous people being persecuted for non-religious reasons

Can some of these kind, loving, hand-wringing Christians on the board explain why they don't give a damn about all these other people China is persecuting? Just like coverage of Darfur, why do only the Christians matter?

You want some hand wringing? I'll give you some hand wringing.
I'm absolutely fed up with people trying to decide what other people should believe. Your brain is your own. Your beliefs about a supernatural or hypernatural force, should also be your own.
I also don't agree with the one child policy since it has basically decimated their female population and left the orphanges filled with primarily little girl and infant girl residents. Hundreds of thousands of unwanted females. Millions of unborn and infant female children dead!!!!! All chinese!!! You want more?!!!!!!!!!

This is the FUTURE of our planet! Get rid of the baby producers, problem solved! And then they can all go masterbate to porno vids and forget having relationships, personal consideration and concern for others!! Who needs females anyway! For that matter, who needs love, compassion, concern, let's just toss all that away -- it's outdated!! We need to revert to barbarism and a bunch of men beating their chests like apes!!! Well, devolution it is then! All hail the nothing!!

[edit on 8-2-2008 by undo]

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 08:32 PM by Clearskies

Originally posted by Quazga

Obviously, given your habits at the time you did not mentally feel as if you were fine as you were. If you had felt that way, you would have stopped all of the contorl based addictions you had.

No, I felt like I was a really good person, but, circumstances as they were were 'making' me make bad choices. WRONG, again.
To know I was a spoiled brat, sinning just to feel good is what made me call on Jesus.

That's not a false gospel, it is the Good News! I'm glad that you picked yourself up and dusted yourself off,

No. I didn't 'pick myself up and dust myself off.
I had tried that again and again. I had even joined a new band around Atlanta, but, I had to write lyrics and THEY did not want an alcoholic or a drug addict, so, I was in a quandry. They had NO idea of my agoraphobia or other stuff, and, if on the right drugs, I could pass off as normal.

but have you ever read Ecclesiastes?

Take a gander at that and tell me again how important it is that we force others to comply with what we think is right.

Yes, I read Ecclesiastes WAY before I was a Christian.
It's talking about the meaninglessness of life WITHOUT God. As always, It's still true today!

[edit on 8-2-2008 by Clearskies]

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 08:37 PM by Clearskies

reply to post by undo

You're right! No one has mentioned the one child policy. All the little girls killed or rotting in orphanages.(literally, parts of their brains do not develop because of lack of stimuli.)
R.A.D., look it up.
Just another side note on the barbarism of communism.

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 09:02 PM by undo

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by undo

You're right! No one has mentioned the one child policy. All the little girls killed or rotting in orphanages.(literally, parts of their brains do not develop because of lack of stimuli.)
R.A.D., look it up.
Just another side note on the barbarism of communism.

And this isn't the first time it happened. The last time it happened, gangs of single men who would never have the chance to form relationships with females (no more sisters, aunts, nieces, moms, wives, girlfriends and so on), became armies of single men who toppled the empire. Today, however, it would just be an excuse for more mass killings. Want to solve the problems of the planet? Preach on that evolution. It's a survival of the fittest scenario that ends with no one surviving.

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 09:22 PM by palehorse23

reply to post by undo

Whoa guys. The topic is changing rapidly. We are on religious persecution and now on one child laws? Everyone needs to take a step back and breathe.....breathe....ok. where were we?
Oh yeah. I do think the argument of communism and religious persecution fall hand in hand. But as far as missionaries go, who is the one that told them to go to a foreign country and change the way the people there believe? Isn't that like us going into Iraq and forcing our form of "democracy" on them? People from the US love to play "God" it seems. Why can we not be more tolerant of others beliefs. Just because we may think it is bad, doesn't necessarily mean it is.

[edit on 2/8/2008 by palehorse23]

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 09:51 PM by undo

Originally posted by palehorse23
reply to post by undo

Whoa guys. The topic is changing rapidly. We are on religious persecution and now on one child laws? Everyone needs to take a step back and breathe.....breathe....ok. where were we?
Oh yeah. I do think the argument of communism and religious persecution fall hand in hand. But as far as missionaries go, who is the one that told them to go to a foreign country and change the way the people their believe? Isn't that like us going into Iraq and forcing our form of "democracy" on them? People from the US love to play "God" it seems. Why can we not be more tolerant of others beliefs. Just because we may think it is bad, doesn't necessarily mean it is.

Hello? I'm not a missionary. I'm just me. If someone wants to hear what I believe about Jesus, I tell 'em. I wish people would knock off the stereotyping. Quit with the "we" or "they" unless you believe everyone in a particular group is on the same exact page, regardless of the topic. There's a really good chance i won't be on the same exact page as anyone else of any group!! Stop it, for the love of all that's logical!!

And who the freak is playing God? The government that claims it has the right to dictate the thoughts in your head? The government that reserves the right to dictate what comes out of your belly as a woman? Or what passes before your eyes??

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 10:14 PM by palehorse23

reply to post by undo

relax undo. Nowhere did I say you were a missionary. I am actually talking about missionaries that are all over the world. And my statement about playing God refers to the government as well as religious groups. Not you specifically. This is why we have to relax a bit and actually read what the posts say. As stated earlier in the thread, I am not anti-religion, just not a religious person. So tell us your beliefs. It is ok. Don't take your anger out on those who do not agree with you. You are falling into the typical religion stereotype when you do that. It is frustrating on both sides of the argument whenever religion is discussed. That is why we have to try and be rational and understanding of everyone's point of view.
If you took my post as personal, that was not the intention so I cannot apologize. My statement was a general one. If I meant you, it would have been directed specifically at you.

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 10:14 PM by TheWalkingFox

Originally posted by undo
You want some hand wringing? I'll give you some hand wringing.
I'm absolutely fed up with people trying to decide what other people should believe. Your brain is your own. Your beliefs about a supernatural or hypernatural force, should also be your own.

Sure.

I also don't agree with the one child policy since it has basically decimated their female population and left the orphanges filled with primarily little girl and infant girl residents. Hundreds of thousands of unwanted females. Millions of unborn and infant female children dead!!!!! All chinese!!! You want more?!!!!!!!!!

Not especially, I agree with you. But on hte other hand, China is a heavily overpopulated country. What do you suggest to counter that problem? We both agree the Chinese idea is crap, but I'm at a loss for a solution.

This is the FUTURE of our planet! Get rid of the baby producers, problem solved! And then they can all go masterbate to porno vids and forget having relationships, personal consideration and concern for others!! Who needs females anyway! For that matter, who needs love, compassion, concern, let's just toss all that away -- it's outdated!! We need to revert to barbarism and a bunch of men beating their chests like apes!!! Well, devolution it is then! All hail the nothing!!

Are we still talking about China, or are we devolving into a more generic lament for modern society?

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 10:23 PM by undo

Palehorse

Well that's the point!! You directed the post in response to "missionaries" bringing and forcing their religion on people and the reallllllllly inane accusation that "we" sent people to Iraq to force democracy on them. Good freakin' grief.
"People from the US love to play God" Oh yeah, everyday I think, "I'm gonna go out into the world and force people to believe me under force of law."
I do that all the time. Everyday.

You keep missing the point. The argument you're presenting only works if you squish whole groups of people into the same mold.

[edit on 8-2-2008 by undo]

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 10:26 PM by undo

TheWalkingFox,

Well if the governments of the world would admit the extent of their technology and start working on ways to expand our civilization to the rest of the universe, instead of hoarding every damn thing for themselves, we wouldn't need to kill off billions of unborn children in fear of over population and starvation.

[edit on 8-2-2008 by undo]

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 10:45 PM by palehorse23

reply to post by undo

You directed the post in response to "missionaries" bringing and forcing their religion on people and the reallllllllly inane accusation that "we" sent people to Iraq to force democracy on them. Good freakin' grief.

Well, I guess we have to agree to disagree. I think you are missing my point.
how can you say that we aren't trying to force democracy in Iraq. even Bush has said that "Democracy will prevail!" We try and make them have democratic elections for God's sake. Where have you been?
On topic, You honestly don't think people, i.e. government, religious leaders, as they are "people", at least last I checked, try to force their agendas on others. If you can't see that, then you are not living in the same world I am. Our freedoms are being stripped from us every day. Even religious people, not you specifically, are not tolerant of others beliefs. If you look even on this site, people tend to give the point of if you don't think like I do, you are wrong. I know there are good religious people, but for every good one there are just as many if not more, bad ones. So, as i stated before, you are allowing yourself to be part of the stereotype. Maybe you need to educate people of how you believe versus thinking you are being stereotyped and accusing people of bashing your beliefs. I value everyone's thoughts as long as they present them without belittling others.

[edit on 2/8/2008 by palehorse23]

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 10:45 PM by undo

Truth of the matter is, the governments could solve these problems by much more humane means but they don't because it's easier to just assume the common folk only exist to provide them luxury and power. Look at the problem with SAFE, healthy, alternative fuel.

Anyway, how this relates to christians being killed in China. They kill everyone that disagrees with them, I'm assuming, based on the info on the Tibetan buddhists and taoists, etc. You know, there's also the issue of their claim that the old religious beliefs were the cause of so many female children being killed. The problem with that is THEY KNEW that's how the people believed. THEY KNEW that would be the outcome of the one child policy and they let it continue because it's a survival of the fittest scenario on a global scale. (And an easily solved scenario if the governments of the world would actually stop being such power hungry greedy buggers).

[edit on 8-2-2008 by undo]

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 10:48 PM by palehorse23

reply to post by undo

(And an easily solved scenario of the governments of the world would actually stop being such power hungry greedy buggers).

See, we can agree on something!!! Unfortunately I am saddened to think that governments will always be power hungry and greedy.

[edit on 2/8/2008 by palehorse23]

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 10:48 PM by undo

How can you say that we aren't trying to force democracy in Iraq.

Cause i'm not "we", I'm "me." See the difference yet? How many americans agree with the war in Iraq? How many agree with forcing democracy? The way it works best is when you give people the option, not when you force it down their throats. This has always been true and will never stop being true. Ever

[edit on 8-2-2008 by undo]

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 10:53 PM by palehorse23

Originally posted by undo

How can you say that we aren't trying to force democracy in Iraq.

Cause i'm not "we", I'm "me." See the difference yet? How many americans agree with the war in Iraq? How many agree with forcing democracy? The way it works best is when you give people the option, not when you force it down their throats. This has always been true and will never stop being true. Ever

[edit on 8-2-2008 by undo]

Another agreement!!!

Well, Congress voted for it and they are an extension of "we". We elect them and they are supposed to do what is best for us. Of course more people do not agree with it after the fact. After we see what has and still is happening in iraq, it is easy to say that one doesn't agree with it. Monday morning quarterback. Why did they not listen to those of us who did not agree with it from the beginning?
Having options is what this country used to be all about. That, as I see it, is rapidly on the decline. I guess we disagree on that though.

[edit on 2/8/2008 by palehorse23]

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 10:57 PM by undo

We elect them

I don't believe that for one second.
You may, if you wish. But I don't.

reply posted on 8-2-2008 @ 11:02 PM by palehorse23

reply to post by undo

You're right. I should have said that we are led to believe that we vote for them. LOL
Actually I believe the elite place whom they want in power in the right positions to achieve their agendas. Hence all of the voter fraud stories, uncounted votes, etc.

okay, bed time for me. gotta end on a decent note. Have a good one. thanks for your input and views. ........To be continued........

reply posted on 10-2-2008 @ 08:36 AM by Damien_Hell

I don't like Christians, I admit that. Your annoying, and 95% of people who are part of the KKK or other prejudice groups are Christians. Now I doubt that thats the case over in China. It may just be some ordinary people being bothered, I don't care enough to read about it. But the problem with the complaint is this: The people are stupid. China is still communist right? Communism rejects religion, I'm sure theres a way to get a church or something like that in China, if there is FOLLOW THE RULES. If not then MOVE. Its that simple.
Goes without saying but I'll say it anyway. The actions of Communists do not in anyway reflect those of Atheists, because Communism is so dogmatic it could be a religion.