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I am from the government, I want to help.

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posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 12:49 PM
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I believe it was Ronald Reagan who said these were the 9 most terrifying words an American could hear...ever.

We all profess to distrust the gov't., yet time and again, and time and again, we holler and yelp like spanked puppies when they live down to our expectations. When given an opportunity to be part of changing that, many of us, or even most of us, can't be bothered. You don't vote, you don't participate, yet you are the first to squeal when something bad happens and the gov't isn't there. Then you blame some one, anyone...rather then taking a long hard look in the mirror. Try it...you'll see the culprit starin' right back at ya.

I've heard all the excuses..."my vote wont make a difference" or "the winner is preselected" Yadda...yadda...and yadda. The litany is nearly endless.

To be blunt, that's a load of monkey poo, folks. Get off your dead butts and make a noise. Go to the ballot box, march on Washington, knock on doors, make sure the cantankerous old lady down the street gets to the polls.

Some Iraqis walked for days to cast their ballots. Are you saying you can't match their "wantto"? Well then, you needn't fuss when you get the gov't. you deserve.

Even if your candidate didn't get nominated (mine didn't/or rather won't) to run for President there are still a multitude of issues up for vote that are every bit as important as which butt sits in the White House. Local issues effect national politics every bit as much as the other way.

Prior to election day in November there are party conventions; local, state, and of course, national. This is where the party platforms are hammered out. These are even more important, these are where the wanna be "powers that be" learn the will of the people. You want to make a difference? That's where you do it. But to do that you gotta get off your ass and go.

Or...

Run for office. There's not one of us who hasn't at one time or another said "I can do a better job than that sumbitch!" Usually loudly. OK, take a shot at it. I might even vote for you, lol.

There are a myriad of ways to help make a difference, I've mentioned only a dew. There are more.

Citizenship has duties that are implicit. Voting, and civic involvement are the most important.

It's our country, or it can be, if we get off our lazy, apathetic, Seinfeld-rerun watching butts and participate.

It's time for a revolution, at the ballot box. Revolutions can be bloody, physically and metaphorically. It's time for the blood to flow, if only metaphorically. In the 80's we had "People Power" in the Philippines. Corazon Aquino was brought to power through it, Ferdinand Marcos was removed. In Nicaragua, a revolution brought Daniel Ortega to power, not a great change perhaps, but it's what the people wanted...

In Panama, Cuba, Russia, the United States, South Africa, and many, many other places, people rose up and said "enough is enough". Elections and all its associated workings are your chance to say "Enough is enough". Don't waste it.

This election cycle is perhaps the most important in our nations history. Perhaps only Abraham Lincolns election to the Presidency just prior to the Civil War is the equal to this upcoming one. Certainly none was more important...




posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by seagull
I've heard all the excuses..."my vote wont make a difference" or "the winner is preselected" Yadda...yadda...and yadda. The litany is nearly endless.

To be blunt, that's a load of monkey poo, folks. Get off your dead butts and make a noise. Go to the ballot box, march on Washington, knock on doors, make sure the cantankerous old lady down the street gets to the polls.




Well I heard of people marching on Washington- And they get arrested.
Due to the media blackout it won't matter how many times people go to the polls their canadate won't get elected no matter how much they push and beg people to support them.

What's the point? Its a constant uphill battle and for that its getting us no where. We're still at the bottom. Please tell me how to get past that hill because as a Ron Paul supporter- I would love to know.

Tell those two clowns Bush and Cheney and their cronies to resign- If you do that that will make many hard working Americans very happy.

[edit on 2/7/2008 by Leyla]



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by Leyla
Well I heard of people marching on Washington- And they get arrested.
Due to the media blackout it won't matter how many times people go to the polls their canadate won't get elected no matter how much they push and beg people to support them.


Dang Ee-ore? Who has their turd pipe hooked up to your hope-o-meter?

Surely, as a Ron Paul supporter, you've looked around by now and noticed all the lunatics?

The entire premise of your post is mis-guided IMHO.

I've been forced to have two guys and both of 'em are out now. Quit whinin' bro.

Now I wonder if we need to go through the *snip that's coming...



posted on Feb, 8 2008 @ 12:22 AM
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reply to post by Leyla
 


Those were precisely the litany and excuses I was refering to. There's a percieved problem, but because people refuse to do anything about it, you just sit there and whine about it.

I'm sorry, when fifty percent of Americans don't go to the polls, I have no sympathy. You get what you deserve. Shut the hell up and suffer. If you don't care enough to get involved in the process, don't fuss when it doesn't suit you.

Media blackout? Fine. Contact the sponsers, get lots of other people to contact sponsers. When it begins to effect the pocketbook, the "media" will listen...

But...but...it's too hard *sniffle* *sniffle*. I'll miss my Seinfeld reruns. Whoever said it was easy to keep politicians honest? I've never seen or heard that anywhere.

I reiterate...get of your lazy butts and do something about it, if you percieve a problem in the political process. Whining about it isn't going to do anything.

By the bye. The "you" I was using is the royal "you", as in all of you, not you in particular Layla



posted on Feb, 8 2008 @ 01:59 AM
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I have no problem with you urging people to get involved and active. I agree people have become too complacent, or too self-involved to realize that ignoring it does affect them in the long term, usually just not instantly.


I do however disagree that voting for a candidate is always the right thing to do. One should never feel forced to place a vote for the lesser of two evils. If you agree with no on that is running, then how can you vote for them?

Still don't agree? Try this, who would you vote for: Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin or Pol Pot and Mao ZeDong?

Sometimes, not voting is the only sane way you can voice your opinion. If you feel that all those who are available to vote for are lying, murderous thieves, please explain the justification of voting for either choice.



Again, I agree that, We the People, need to retake control of OUR nation. Average Joes need to run for office. Lobbyists need to be made illegal, such as they are treasonous and look out not for the good of the people, but for the gain of the few.

The system is broken, only we can fix it, but, people need to stop being lazy and get off their tails to make the change, not stick their head in the sand and hope some moron who has a lot of hands in his pockets whispering things in the ear to do so.



People are free to choose not to go to the polls, that also doesn't mean they aren't marching, involved with organizations that are trying to help the world. They may be putting efforts into things that they feel make a difference more than what they feel is a fake election. Not everyone that complains, not everyone that refuses to vote in a broken system is watching Seinfeild ... in fact, I bet you a lot of the ones who don't vote, can't ... because they are WORKING, not to pay for cable, but to put food on the table. Jobs don't close down for polling days. A lot of people work 12 hour shifts trying to get by.


Each person's situation is unique, and we cannot stereotype, profile, or label people who have to choose between buying their kid some medicine, feeding the child, keeping a roof over their head, fresh water to drink, bath, and toilets, and all other things like that.

Of course, not everyone is in a worst case scenario that makes a choice to not vote. How about finding out why they feel this way.

What is going on in our country that has caused this effect? Why isn't it taught in schools just how important the process is?

Instead of badgering those who have lost hope, understand, inspire, fix, and prevent future generations from feeling the same.

I sure enjoy my medicine presented with sweetness, not sour.


I understand both sides. Those who want to fix the system need to start by positively influencing each person in a personal way. That can fix the nation.

If we each just do a little, multiply that by 300 million and we can do almost anything.



posted on Feb, 8 2008 @ 07:14 AM
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reply to post by Gatordone
 


Thing is Gator I have no hope not anymore. Sure, I can go out and vote but what’s the use of going when the candidate you chose is not on the ballet? It’s no longer chosen by Americans it chosen by the delegates. Who are they? The Government.

Might as well move elsewhere- that’s better then dealing with the corrupt news media all the time and having to listen to that bonehead president.

We don't own the US the US shadow government owns us. So what are you gonna do call me Eeore again?

And another thing Gator I'm not your bro.


What was it... "Who has their turd pipe hooked up to your hope-o-meter?"

You know me so well don't you? I'm worried about the next four years. Why don't people wake up and choose a worthy candidate that cares about America. And they won't try to bribe you with porkbarrel offers for you to vote for them. This government has gone crazy and you ask me this stupid question?

Well pardon me for stating my opinion tator tot. This is something I would appreciate to state my concerns online without being criticized by people like YOU!!

I'll try not to let it happen again.


[edit on 2/8/2008 by Leyla]



posted on Feb, 8 2008 @ 10:52 AM
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reply to post by FreeThinkerIdealist
 


So you'll cut off your nose to spite your face? There are more than two choices for President, you know? Now I grant you, the odds on them winning are long in the extreme. But there are also other items on the ballot that are just as important as who sits in the Oval Office...more immediate anyway. Local elections are what fuel national politics, what's local today is national tommorrow.

I'm not terribly impressed with the choices left in the Presidential race, either. I'm not going to let my dissatisfaction render me mute, even in protest...I'll take my protest to the ballot box, and to the caucuses, even the state convention should I be selected as a delegate. This is how you foment change...not by not voting, even in protest. If there truely are powers that be, that's what they, whoever "they" is, want you to do. Don't you see that?

When a country that prides itself, as ours does, on it's republican form of gov't. a 50% voter turnout is reprehensible beyond description. This is, IMHO, a turning point in the history and future of our nation. Are you going to sit on your hands without trying to make a difference. I'm not, I can't just sit and watch. Nor should any of you...



posted on Feb, 8 2008 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by seagull
 


Why the delegates? No offence Seagull but should it be up to the Americans who they pick for President. What happened to honest elections?

The Media is covering up Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul because they want a CFR member as president.



posted on Feb, 8 2008 @ 11:54 AM
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Well said my good and valued friend..

I for one attend political meetings..

Political stomps...

I vote..

And I have turned down offers to run for office.. (Way too much dirty laundry :lol


I get the feeling I have done something right, something historic when I do these things...

As you, my candidate is now not contending and we must deal with what is left.. That is simply the way of the world and we are not all going to get the "One" that we think is the best for any office..

Your "best" is surely not going to coincide with my "best" anyway...

This country asks really so very little of us and yet gives us the right to complain all that we want too. We generally have no problem in doing just that, complaining, but we seem to have a problem in exercising our ability to vote and giving ourselves the ability to complain.

There are doom sayers out there, there have always been and there will always be. Perhaps one day their predictions of dire doom will come true, but until then we all have to go forth with a clear mind and positive hopes and watch the good that is happening and the positive movements we could see for this country,,,

Thank you Seagull for this thread...

Leyla to answer your question as simply as possible, delegates make it fair..

Without delegates, the large population centers would have an undo advantage and we would never have anyone representing the smaller states. My state for example is well under 5million. NY City would in essence nullify the votes in my state and several others by itself..

Without delegates, NY, and California would always choose the president...

Semper



posted on Feb, 8 2008 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by Leyla
 


It comes down to a matter of equality...I'm not sure how to explain this, so bear with me...

Delegates keep it fair, popular vote is great, but the larger states obviously dominate the popular vote, California, Florida, etc... My own state of Washington has a fairly large population, second only to California I believe, but we're dwarfed population wise. Having delegates keeps the population discrepancy at least somewhat balanced out. That's what the electoral college is for as well. Basically two names for the same thing.

To not vote simply because it's uncomfortable is to deny your obligation as a citizen to be involved in the governance of the country. I'm probably beginning to sound like a broken record here
, but I feel very strongly about this (as you may have guessed). Nothing is more important than voting. Voters serve and defend our country every bit as much as any soldier or sailor. In the 26 years I've been eligible to vote I've missed two, one because I had moved and was unable to legally vote in my new precinct, the second was I was out in the middle of the Bering Sea and didn't get my absentee ballot in time.

This election is so very important to the future of our country, maybe the most important it's ever faced. No matter your affiliations, or loyalties, get out, get others out.



posted on Feb, 8 2008 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by Leyla
 



Oh...forgot to add. No offense taken, Leyla. While I feel strongly, I rarely get offended by differing opinion...sometimes, but not very often, and surely not in this case.



posted on Mar, 24 2008 @ 12:48 AM
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Over the past few weeks, or months, I suppose...I've seen and read more than one poster write that because they don't like the major contenders for President they aren't going to vote...

Do any of you realize just how stupid and short sighted that is? Go ahead trot out your excuses...'cause that's all they are, excuses. I've heard 'em all...and they're all equally dumb.

Assuming for the moment that they even care...that's what the "elite" want you to do...they want you browned off and not bothering to exercise your rights. That way, "they" can choose for you. So go ahead, stay home, and let some rich bastard decide what your future and the future of your children is going to be. Or let me, 'cause I'm gonna vote. I may be holding my nose whilst I'm doing it, but there are other important things to decide other than who's fundament desecrates the Oval Office this go around. I don't like 'em either, but I'll find someone to vote for, even if I have to write in my own bloody name.

President seagull, I rather like the sound of that
.

I can't think of a more important election cycle in my lifetime. There are several very old Supreme Court justices who'll probably be replaced by the next President. The leadership in Congress.

It doesn't matter your preferred party, if your guy gets more votes than my guy, so be it. I really don't care other than getting people to realize that "we the people" hold the true power in this country, if we choose to exercise it. Apathetic stupidity is our worst enemy, far more dangerous and insidious than any terrorist. You want to protect our Constitution? Vote. Exercise that constitutional right that men and women have pledged their lives and sacred honor to preserve.



posted on Mar, 24 2008 @ 06:11 AM
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reply to post by seagull
 


I understand your point. I tried to make a differenced and sacrificed everything I had and lost it in the process. I do feel we have breached the event horizon on this one. People are getting arrested as stated before and not just for protesting.

I came to the realization that most of our government working aspects for the people are largely window dressing events because the issues the majority of Americans want dealt with are not getting dealt with.

Our veterans are getting the shaft over medical care- yet Bush just sent billions to Africa for medical care.

Trying to motivate people to get involved may get people killed who oppose the government and demand change- many are already getting arrested, killed by tasers etcetera. When Bush came to Los Angeles to campaign, I protested with many because I knew what he was about back then. The police chased us into a service ally and I was about to get the beating of my life this I knew when the nightstick slammed into by back and I fell to the ground and rolled up into a ball to protect my head- I was saved by flashbulbs blaring as an LA Times reporter came to the rescue. My picture was plastered on the front page I was the human ball who could have been anybody.

So that you know Seagull, none of us were violent and nor were we chanting or holding signs. We certainly would have but we had just gathered. The police came out of nowhere and fast. There are a lot of people who have tried and were strong. As I said, I respect your viewpoint- but please understand ours.

I voted in the first Bush election and it was the last time I will vote. Its all getting pinned on diebold and hackers. It was election fraud and it became clear that it has been going on for a very long time. Had they not pushed Bush through the way they did- most people would not know the extent of the scam and its very long history.



posted on Mar, 24 2008 @ 09:44 AM
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Trust me when I say I do understand, I truly do. Protestation ( is that even a word?) has its place, how else outside of the ballot box do you get your message across? It has its dangers, as you, obviously, can testify to. I've protested various things, I've also been caught up in demonstrations/protests that were anything but peaceful.

Remember the riots in Seattle a few years back? I was in Seattle minding my own business, took a wrong turn and WHAMMO. I discovered that when cops say break it up, they flippin' durn well mean it. Tear gas sucks.

Still and all, you can't let that prevent you from doing what you must; voting and peaceful protesting are, to my mind, flipsides of the same coin. Don't let fear rule you...not that I think you will, but the temptation must be there. You let "them" know your scared, you've lost the fight.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 03:34 AM
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reply to post by seagull
 


It isn't as simple as that, things are very very complicated. And people's life are not getting any easier or simple either.

Everybody has problems, common people have problems, and also people who are in charge. In the end it's far more than just about political ignorance or laziness, it's actually more about good and bad intentions, corruption and empowerment.

So if you really care, do ponder on those words.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by Jazzyguy
 


Things are complicated? Well they don't show any sign of becoming less so. Corruption? Really? How do you propose to stop the corruption? By holding your breath until you turn blue?

From the sounds of it, you are just looking for an excuse to not be involved because it'll be difficult to make a choice. Sometimes not making a choice is actually making a choice...do ponder that.

Good intentions and bad intentions. What's that got to do with the issue? The intentions of the politicians being voted for, that's why we have to make informed choices, or is that just another excuse not to be involved in the process?

Problems. Solving the problems as we percieve them is why we have to vote, and be involved in society in general. Reading the intentions of others, for good or ill, is why we have our eyes to see with, and ears to hear with.

You've asked me to ponder your words, and I have, I just don't buy them as an excuse not to be involved. If I've misconstrued your words, please enlighten me.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 

In order to vote properly people have to know the candidates very well, and that is just not on the top of their priority list.
Almost all people have at least one of the following problems:

1. Health problem
2. Financial problem
3. Social problem
4. Mental/spiritual/emotional problem

For most people, political issue is the least of their priority since there are other more pressing needs. And corruption in the government making them even more apathetic toward voting.
To care about political issue is a privilege. Either it is something you're passionate for or you are not dominated by any other life problems.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by Jazzyguy
 


Those are all important issues, I've had one or more of them at various times in my life, hasn't prevented me yet. I know others who haven't been prevented, either.


Many counties use mail in ballots. A lot people have access to various forms of media, TV's, computers, newspapers, even talk radio. Information on issues and politicians is out there to be found. There is no real excuse...



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 


As I already said it, that is because both you and me have more passion on politics more than the others.

I never try to make any excuse for any one. I'm simply stating that it's just not that simple, it's more than just laziness or ignorance. People in modern days are bombarded with problems and informations, their minds are having problem sorting them all.

And let me state this again, a lot of people are apathetic toward the government. Why is that? Because it's not easy to change the mind of people in power. Do the common people have the time and energy to change the mind of such people and change the system. No, they don't.

Besides, they cannot just vote. They cannot just vote Obama because he's (half) african american, they cannot just vote Hilary because she's the first female. Or McCain because he's the only conservative. They need to know the candidates, and all of their policies. Don't that take a lot of their time and energy?



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 10:15 AM
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reply to post by Jazzyguy
 


I understand, really I do. I just don't buy into the reasoning. As important to us as this is, I just don't understand it. I have the same day to day issue as everyone else, bills, work, etc..., yet I somehow find the time to at least attempt to stay currant on the issues, it's not always an easy thing to do, as there are only 24 hours in a day, and I looooove to sleep, and eat. The information is so easy to access, literally a click away. Ah well. I think we've reached the point where we bow politely and agree to disagree, and find something else to argue about...



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