Cop's Get New " Flashlight " Weapon That Sickens, Confuses Human Beings

reply to post by BlueRaja


I had a large reply ready to post and it disappeared when I tried to post it..damn it.. here is part of it: Some cases that highlight OUR right to resist unlawful arrests and detentions: From this site:

www.courts.state.va.us...

" It has long been held in Virginia that where an officer
attempts an unlawful arrest, the officer is an aggressor which
gives the arrestee the right to use self-defense to resist so
long as the force used is reasonable.
"[T]he amount of force used [always] must be reasonable in
relation to the harm threatened." Diffendal v. Commonwealth, 8
Va. App. 417, 421, 382 S.E.2d 24, 26 (1989). From the same case: " The officers' mistaken belief that
appellant was the person named in the capias did not make the
capias an instrument upon which the police could lawfully arrest
appellant, even if that mistake was made in good faith.
The police officers became aggressors when they attempted to
arrest a person not named in the capias upon which they relied
for the arrest, and they were at fault in the confrontation. Appellant was not
required to surrender to the officers based on the capias issued
for another person's arrest. Because the arrest was unlawful,
appellant had the right to resist upon self-defense principles.
The Commonwealth cannot expunge that right even by showing the
officers acted in "good faith."
Accordingly, for the reasons stated, we reverse the judgment
of the trial court and dismiss appellant from further prosecution
on the charge." Case dismissed!

Here is a GREAT ONE!! read this:

www.heraldtribune.com.../20070314/NEWS/703140547

If a cop- does not obey the law then we have the right to make them obey, even if it means resisting them with force. Thats the law. Why should we stand around and allow some cop to abuse us and violate our rights? Are we supposed to just let them do anything they want, including murder us, and not lift a finger to defend ourselves? NO!! No way! The LAW says we can resist, and we should.

MILLIONS of arrests made verey year are ILLEGAL and end up thrown out; this fact alone means that we cannot assume anything good about a cop. Use your rights, keep your rights.

The last link seems not to be working now: Here is the body of the report:

Homeowner had 'a right to resist'
Judge acquits John Coffin on 5 felony charges; Coffin gets time served on 6th.

By TODD RUGER



[email protected]

SARASOTA -- John Coffin won't spend any more time in jail for beating up two sheriff's deputies inside his house, striking one in the head with a Taser gun he took from the other.

Circuit Judge Rick De Furia said at Coffin's trial Tuesday that he doesn't condone the violence against the deputies.

But Coffin, 56, had a right to defend his family and property because the deputies had no right to be in Coffin's house in the first place, De Furia said.

"Law enforcement was responsible for the chain of events here," De Furia said. "I think in situations like this, officers become so frustrated they go beyond what the law allows them to do."

The fight started when Coffin heard his wife screaming in pain, went into the garage and saw two deputies arresting her on the floor.

The deputies were trying to serve Coffin with civil papers that had been given five days earlier. They had entered the garage even though they did not have a search warrant or arrest warrant.

And they arrested Coffin's wife, Cynthia, 50, on obstruction charges even though she had no obligation to follow their orders to bring her husband outside.

"The most critical is the fact the officers broke the law by stopping the garage door from going down," and then entering the garage, De Furia said.

A jury was picked for the trial Monday. But the judge granted a motion by Coffin's attorneys, Derek Byrd and Brett McIntosh, and acquitted John Coffin on five of six felony charges Tuesday morning.

Coffin pleaded no contest to the remaining charge of taking a Taser gun from one of the deputies during the fight.

Before handing down the sentence, De Furia asked how long Coffin spent in jail after his initial arrest.

"You spent eight days in the Sarasota County jail," De Furia said. "That's your sentence. No probation."

Relatives applauded, and Coffin walked out of the courthouse with only a $358 bill for court costs. The sentence surprised even defense attorneys, who had suggested De Furia sentence Coffin to probation.

Prosecutors had asked for more than a year of prison time because of "the totality of the case" and the injuries to deputies James Lutz and Stacy Ferris, whose name is now Stacy Brandau.

The two deputies testified about their injuries Tuesday -- three blows to the head with the butt of the Taser gun knocked Lutz unconscious.

"I just ask that he doesn't get away with this," Brandau told the judge.

Assistant State Attorney Jeff Young told the judge the case "could have been over in five seconds" if the Coffins "had simply come out and cooperated."

"That is a man who took it upon himself to beat up two police officers," Young said.

De Furia said that while he believed the deputies' mistakes were not intentional, the Coffins had every right to lock doors, try to close their garage door and not cooperate.

"What took place in the house was unfortunate," De Furia said, "but Mr. Coffin ... had a right to resist."


And can you believe that the Persecutor wanted the man to ' not get away with it", even though it was legal!!! The nerve. Unreal. The man protects his wife from a violent and ILLEGAL assault on her, and the whining cop's want him to pay!! I am PROUD of that man for whipping the tar out of those two thuggish pig's, who were violating the rights of the people. Cop's think that not only can they violate the law, but that we are supposed to roll over and thank them for doing so!! Makes me want to barf.

It really doesn't matter what toy the cops get, they will deny that they used it anyway. Use it in court, your word against theres.

We are already in a police state in Florida.. Wake up people!!

gary

reply to post by eyewitness86


My issue with you is that you've already decided to take an adversarial stance when dealing with cops, without regard to the context. You obviously have a beef with law enforcement, due to instances where they have exceeded their authority, and then extrapolated that into what is the norm. My point is that if you start off on the wrong foot, then you will escalate the situation needlessly, creating a self fulfilling prophecy. If you defuse the situation at the start with courtesy, you won't need to "resist" the man.

reply to post by BlueRaja



And WHY exactly does a citizen have to ' defuse ' a cop? Why should the cop be in a bad mood and require ' defusing ' in the first place? WHY should we have to tiptoe around and play games, and lower ourselves, so some cop will not abuse us?It makes no sense. I NEVER said to start a fight with a cop. I just am saying that we should not have to look at common civil servants as anything but what they are: Employees of ours.

Do you say ' Yassuh ' to your gardener or waiter so they will be ' defused '? Why not? Maybe they had a bad day too...Oh, but wait..only COP's get a free pass on being able to stay in a bad mood and let it affect our rights, correct? The cop's MOOD should have ZERO bearing on his ability to conduct himself professionally. We should NEVER even consider changing the way we talk and act so some cop will think we are beneath him and fluff his already distorted ego.

I should be able to be brusque, or impatient, or aggravated, and the cop should just ignore it. They always jump on any sign of ' disrespect ' of course as a reason to abuse us, and that is sick. Cop's are NOT some Godlike special beings..they ususally are less educated and less able to handle professinal behavior than most. They want us to feel dominated by them, subservient to them, and they hate it when a man takes a stand and c alls their bluff.

Another thing to consider; trapping a cop abusing your rights can be a way to make some money. If a cop violates your rights, you can sue them in federal court for civil rights violations. it is an EXCELLENT way to get some thuggish cop's to obey the rules and pay for their misdeeds. A PRO SE case can be filed for little or no money if one cannot get a lawyer. The moment the cop gets the certified letter telling him to appear in federal court for a lawsuit, believe me that gets their attention, and fast.

I welcome any opportunity to ruin a cop's life and career ifd he is abusive and so I would hope that I am a victim of some stupid cop exceeding his authority: it gives me all the ammo I need to take em down!! Thats the ONLY thing a cop respects...the ONLY thing: Force and financial ruin. They respect nothing else.

If every civilian that was abused by a cop took the matter as far as they could, believe me the system would change, and fast. The bosses would crack down after a few juicy suits are won, and the insurance company is demanding changes..that works. You want a professional police force? Here is how you get it and keep it: Keep all cop's on a very short leash. Never allow them to ask a citizen to give up a precious Constitutional right. Prosecute EVERY instance of a cop abusing his authority. If a cop lies on the stand ( and this is virtually every time they open their mouths) then they should be charged with perjury and thrown in prison.

If cop's were held to standards as strict as those that they want to impose on us, things would be better. I agree, don't get nasty for no reason; but cop's consider anything that looks like a challenge of their lies as nasty so they get mad anytime we take a stand. Being right means nothing to a cop: All they care about is getting what they want fro us, and making sure that we are under their thumbs all the time.

reply to post by eyewitness86


So basically you want to try to instigate a situation whereby you can try to earn money by suing?

I never said you had to defuse the cop. I said courtesy helps keep situations where you'd have to worry about your rights being violated from occurring in the first place. It looks like your motive though is to find a reason to be offended/oppressed so you can stick it to the man.

Personally I value my time, so I'd rather not be adversarial when dealing with a cop, thereby causing me more grief. Your free time seems to be of less value to you, than arbitrarily doing something just out of principle.

With regards to respect- just like in the military where one respects the rank of the individual, even if they don't respect the individual, I respect the cop's position of authority, even if I don't respect the cop.

reply to post by BlueRaja



It is NOT instigating to NOT kowtow to some cop!! you seem to think that being polite will get you a better chance of being treated as you have a RIGHT to be treated; WHY should our treatment depend on what some cop thinks? My God man, can't you see it?

I never said to pick anything...YOU said to act real polite so the thug would give you a break and not abuse you. I say I will rather let him abuse me before I will bow down and kiss some cop's ass. Maybe you and others have some natural pucker that begs for an outlet, but not me. I will fight a cop toe to toe if he assualts me or mine ande violates me to that extent. Take it? no way. Smile and shuffle and do a tap dance and say YASSUh all you want, I will keep my dignity and pride and still manage to beat the scum at their own game.

You are afraid of them..thats what it boils down to...and I am not.

reply to post by eyewitness86


It would seem like we're not having the same conversation. I'm not talking about being polite to a cop while they are physically abusing you.
What I am saying is that upon your first encounter with a cop(assuming that they don't come out of nowhere, and immediately start abusing you), if you don't give them an attitude, then most likely they're not gonna start abusing you.

Let's do a role reversal here. Let's say you are the cop, and it's your job to maintain some semblance of order for public safety. You come up on someone(or a large group) who is being disorderly, and they give you the go F yourself attitude when you're trying to tell them what to do. You continue trying to reason with them, but they simply refuse to comply, and are getting more belligerent. How would you handle that situation?

reply to post by BlueRaja



Why change situations? Now you have developed a whole new example. First it was a traffic stop, not a crown is gathering and people are getting belligerant. Thats a big leap. But, I will answer your question: Using only the bare facts you present, at that point no law has been broken, thus no action may legally ne taken. It is NOT against the law to be belligerant, now is there? You can legally criticise a cop, curse him, anything you want...as lomg as you do not use violence or use ' fighting words ' which are those INTENDED TO PROVOKE A VIOLENT RETALIATION. iF SOME GUY IS TRYING TO PICK A FIST FIGHT , HE IS NOT LEGALLY PROTECTED.

What your main point is, is that we are less likley to have some cop abuse his authority and violate our rights if we appear to be ' polite ' to them. I am saying that this is not, and should not, be necessary. The cop is supposed to be PROFESSIONAL, and that means he does his job and forgets his little feelings and attitudes and ego. I never said to instigate a fight. I am saying that if a cop is doing the job right, he will IGNORE all provocations and follow the rule of law.

If I were a cop and some guy gave me a hard time, I wopuld like to think that I would ignore my feelings and do the job. Hey, we ALL would rather be treated with kid gloves by all we meet, but that isn't reality. You are seemingly afraid that if ytou do not kiss up a little then the cop will be more likley to abuse his authority. That is inexcusable. Would you forgive your doctor for screwing up an operation because you didn't call him Sir? Why not? He deserves respect as much as any cop does; the difference is that no one but cop's feeel ENTITLED to respect, or kowtowing, or whatever you want to call subservient behavior.

It is NOT right for the citizensa of a free nation to live in fear of the cop's. If you did not fear a negative reaction, you would never even think about calling a cop Sir to show you are submitted to him..now would you? of course not. Why should our attitudes have any bearing on the conduct of a cop? Are they so insecure that they need constant puffing to make then happy? Perhaps. They lOVE to see us submitted to them, and IO do not care to fulfill the fantasies of some cop so he can feel' respected'.

If a cop wants respect, let him follow the rule of law absolutley and never vary from that. Let him ignore all legal speech, even if it ' bothers ' him. Speech that is not inflammatory and urging violence is totally legal no matter how many cop's take offense.

Here is a video of a cop doing the job right; he gets a mad driver yelling and carrying on, yet he stays cool. That is one cop in a million, literally.

This is how a cop should act; he ignores all proocations and is professional.



Now after seeing that, why should we expect any less from any other cop? Please tell me that.

Most cop's would have Tazered or shot that man and you know it. Most cop's would have dragged the man from his car and abaused and falsely arrested him, and you know it.

This was a totally PROFESSIONAL cop and I salute him!! If ALL cop's were like this one, we would see the police misconduct rates drop over night, and the people would know that they are being served correctly.

That is the perfect example of what a cop should be willing to do to follow the rule of law; he did NOT get all flustered and take it personally like the vast majority would, he acted in a way that makes him a credit to the state and to the force. If only all of them were like him....what a great nation we could be, with rights respected..even wheh it is not easy.

Now, tell me WHY all cop's cannot be like him if they are professional.

reply to post by eyewitness86


I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not afraid of cops, or wanting to kiss up to them. I do understand the principal that it's easier to catch bees with honey than with vinegar though. Regardless of how one hopes a cop will react, simple human nature/logic tells us that courtesy is usually responded to with courtesy. Being courteous doesn't = kissing up/kowtowing. Additionally the analogy between a Doctor and a cop isn't really a good one- the Doctor isn't charged with enforcing laws and ensuring people comply, so if you ignore what the Doctor says it's on you.
If you ignore a cop, there are significantly different consequences that can result. In any event, I'm gonna choose the option that takes away the least amount of my time. I'm not so prideful that I can't look in myself in the mirror after not sticking it to the man. What I am concerned about is how inconvenieced I am, by choosing a course of action guaranteed to have me spending more time with the cop.

reply to post by eyewitness86


Most cops are professional, and you never hear the positive news stories about the nice traffic stops, or rescuing a kitten on TV. It's only the negative stories that are sensational enough to be newsworthy. You can't extrapolate that data into being the norm though, or you'd hear a lot more stories of abuse than we currently do.

reply to post by BlueRaja



And WHY should we have to carry honey with us to placate a cop? you still do not get it. You always come back to having to lower yourself to saqy Sir to a cop because you think that will lessen your risk of unprofessional conduct. You are admitting that most cop's are not professional and they will allow their feelings to affect their performance. At least you have that right. But WHY should WE have to behave in a way that assuages a cop?

I f a cop is going to act differently because you did NOT call him some Sir slogan, then there is a problem with the cop. I should never have to act ' nice ' to some cop in hopes that he will do his jon correctly if I do so; they should do it right the first time because thats the law.

If you cannot see it by now, I am not going to waste any more time. If you saw the video, tell me why all cop's cannot be aqs professional as him. What excuse is there? Human nature? Thats a joke. We all have to drop crude and uneeeded parts of the human nature every day to live. If a cop cannot hold back his ' human ' failings on the job, then he should be flipping burrgers and not out enforcing the law. Have a nice day and while you are shuffling and doing your dog and pony act praying that it will make some Cop less likley to abuse you, have at it. I would rather keep my dignity and keep the cop's from expecting ALL of us to bend over when the blue light goes on.

The video says it all; that is professional conduct. ANYTHING less is unacceptable and inexcusable.

reply to post by eyewitness86


I think you should do whatever you want, and deal with whatever results occur. I've had a pretty good track record of not being abused by anyone, and my dignity is intact too. If you like spending more time with cop to stroke your ego, great. My ego isn't event driven.

reply to post by BlueRaja


I will not be the one standing there getting my car tossed; you will. I will refuse and let them know that if they want to give me ammo to file a federal civil rights lawsuit, I will be very grateful. If a cop thinks that you WANT them to screw up, they of course want nothing to do with you as you represent a liability and not a soft target. Thats the bottom line. Stand firm and call their bluff and leave, or give in and wait while they do anything they like: You have given your rights away and at that point yopu are at their mercy.

Enjoy the view from the side of the road; I have better things to spend my time on than allowing some thug of a cop to bluff me.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by eyewitness86

 

Most cops are professional, and you never hear the positive news stories about the nice traffic stops, or rescuing a kitten on TV. It's only the negative stories that are sensational enough to be newsworthy. You can't extrapolate that data into being the norm though, or you'd hear a lot more stories of abuse than we currently do.

Please go to police misconduct on any search engine and read for a few hours; there are attorneys who make their whole carers out of misconduct cases. It happens all the time, every day. Of course cop's occasionally perform a service to us, thats what they are paid for. But the MAJORITY of cop's will lie and perjure and coerce, and that is fact, not opinion.

Even the former police chief of Seattle, Norm Stamper, is on record a saying that in his educated opinion 99% of all cops lie on the stand to make a case stick. Thats a majority in myu book pal, and its from one of their own who was a cop for over 30 years. You believe the propaganda and I believe what is real. The image is one thing, the reality is another.

Wow you are still going at it with this topic. You have some serious issues with law and authority. Sure there some crooked and corrupt cops but every agency is going to have some due to the fact its run by human beings . To say that 99% of cops are liars just goes to say how your much hatred and ignorance has corrupted your view of law enforcement. Any logical person would be appalled to hear say such nonsense. Are there problems with law enforcement? Sure there are. There is awlays going to be problems with every aspect of life wether it be the educational system, the courts, the health care system, etc, as long there are humans running these systems, corruption will always exist. That just a fact of life. Yet for you to say every cop out there is liar is just ridiculous. Cops are there to serve, protect, and enforce laws. If you can't respect their authority and all the crap they go through and accomplish, then thats your problem. I have two friends who are cops, one is sheriff deputy, and the other highway patrolman, and they are both wonderful people, and they have told many stories. Most of these people not liars and to say they are is insulting and plain ignorant.

reply to post by Fingon



I did not say that 99% of all cop's perjure themselves, it was a quote from NORM STAMPER, former Police Chief of Seattle and a cop for almost 40 years, I think he knows a bit more about institutionalized perjury than you do: Your experience is limited to knwoing two cop's who have not abused you yet. Which do you think is more likley correct?

How much time have you spent in court rooms and reviewing testimony? None? then you are totallynunable to refute the very likley truth that cop's will lie to make a case without compunction. You want to believe that all cop's are Ok, and that is a dream worlld.

And WHY do you think that a cop would not perjure himself? What makles you think this? I can prove that so many cop's have been accused and convicted of perjury that it tells a tale; and that is rare. Most cop's lie when they know no video tape exists, and some lie even when they do!!

Originally posted by eyewitness86
reply to post by Fingon

 

And WHY do you think that a cop would not perjure himself? What makles you think this? I can prove that so many cop's have been accused and convicted of perjury that it tells a tale; and that is rare. Most cop's lie when they know no video tape exists, and some lie even when they do!!

Because I don't believe that everyone that joins the police force/law enforcement, is entirely devoid of integrity, and a sense of honor and decency. It's true that there are some bad ones, and some attorneys make a good living suing them. Perhaps the individual you quoted feels that 99% of cops lie, but has he personally met or had any dealings with 99% of every cop? If not, then I'd be a little wary at making such an assertion.

reply to post by BlueRaja



If the Seattle Police are the only one's that perjure themselves, then this is a real phenomenon!! The Chief oversaw thousands of cop's for almost 40 years. I think that gives him an inside edge on knowing what they likley are doing, yes? Of course.

Of course if YOU have more police experience than Stamper, you will let us all know what that is, right? Until then, it is likley that he is right. A REPRESENTATIVE sampling is a legitimate way of asessing whole groups: Scientists do it all the time.