Hi, I'm from the gov't, and I'm here to help., page 2

privacy

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times

reply posted on 6-2-2008 @ 04:58 AM by MadMachinist

these surveys are old i took them when i was in school also i am 30 now so it is nothing new. i have yet to see any come from my children but they are only in first and k grades but i am sure i will when they get up to 6-12 grades.

[edit on 2/6/08 by MadMachinist]

reply posted on 6-2-2008 @ 05:31 AM by Areal51

reply to post by SemperParatus

The following represents my impressions and my opinions based on facts about the document quoted in the OP. It is not intended to influence the impressions or sway the opinions of others.

At face value, this sounds like part of a social engineering scheme. With the information gathered those in charge of the program would be able to extrapolate which segments of the population, which regions, to reinforce propaganda supporting the "WAR ON DRUGS", or to de-emphasize it.

The survey information will assist us in assessing our success or failure to convince students of the health and safety value of not using alcohol and drugs.

Based on that quote, it's obvious that an awareness program of some sort has either been underway or is being planned to instill convictions in the minds of children about whether to avoid using alcohol or drugs.

The assumption has to be made by the reader/parent/guardian that the program is intended to benefit all students, but the document does not specifically say so. The document only gives that impression by referencing "No Child Left Behind" legislation. That in itself is not the same thing as referencing the No Child Left Behind Act. So the document does not seem to be encouraging the reader/parent/guardian to become familiar with The No Child Left Behind Act because it only refers to "legislation", a term that is not specific to anything and which provides the sense of "largeness" and "overwhelming". If attention wanted to be drawn specifically to the No Child Left Behind Act, then most likely that is what would have been referenced, but it was not. However, there is the possibility that the language of using "No Child Left Behind" with "legislation", rather than No Child Left Behind Act, was used to soften the tone of the document in order to get a positive emotional response from the reader/parent/guardian. The reason for doing that, if true, could be anything. It is at least manipulative, and given the context of what follows, it doesn't appear to be towards anything good.

To gather this information we have chosen the Pride Survey, which has been used by schools in more than 8,000 school systems across the nation over the past two decades.

This gives no indication of the the awareness program's penetration, but it is designed to give the reader/parent/guardian the impression that the program has been implemented in at least 8,000 school districts over the past 20 years. It also provides the sense that the program is a popular program because the Pride Survey is a popular survey. That's one of the oldest tricks in the book, to associate an unknown quantity with a popular known quantity to reflect a positive light on the unknown quantity.

If you prefer that your child not participate please inform our office, in writing, before 2/12/08 as the survey will be administered the second week in February 2008. Sign below and return to your child's teacher.

That statement alone should raise red flags. If the survey is voluntary and anonymous, why is it important to log and to know specifically who did not participate in the survey? The answer to that question could be anything. The trouble is that raising that question doesn't inspire confidence in the intentions for the survey, or the results of the survey. Whomever is in charge doesn't seem to be primarily interested in the results that the Pride Survey might convey. Whomever seems to actually be interested in who chooses not to participate in the survey. After all, that's where specific identifying information is asked for, including signatures!

My impression is that the issuing of this document and the Pride Survey are really intended to find out specifically who is on board with the No Child Left Behind Act and, possibly, the "WAR ON DRUGS". Since I'm not directly or indirectly involved with the issue of either, the true reason(s) behind this is unknown to me. I'll just leave off by saying that the information I've gleaned so far doesn't inspire me with confidence that the children are the true source of concern. It seems that whomever is behind this is concerned about what the parents/guardians are thinking. They would be able to make a broad range of assumptions based on official notification of the parents who refused to take part in the survey. Then, perhaps, the next stage of getting even more information from those individuals could be put into action.

The other obvious thing is that by knowing who didn't take the survey, those in charge would also know who did take part in the survey. And the schools would easily be able to provide that information based on enrollment records. So some anonymity would be lost, though he answers to the Pride Survey might remain truly anonymous. Maybe. Frankly, I don't like the sound of this document. Nor do I trust that the reason cited is the true reason for issuing the Pride Survey.

Some final points. There are at least five or six different programs implied in the document quoted in the OP. However, not one single program is specifically referenced by name or title. The implied programs are:

1. A program that is underway that has something to do with compliance with "the new education legislation 'No Child Left Behind'".

2. An educational awareness program that is planned or is underway, and that is designed to "convince students of the health and safety value of not using alcohol and drugs."

3. A program that is planned or is underway that is designed to use the results of the Pride Survey. A survey that covers the topics of alcohol use, drug use, and violence. Apparently this survey has been around for 20 years, and that implies that it was/is a "WAR ON DRUGS" instrument.

4. A program that is underway that requires the knowledge of who took the survey and who did not.

From this list one can see the mixed messages. and that program number 5 is underway that is tackling all of these issues. And that there is the possibility of a 6th program being planned and undertaken that would attempt to find out why certain parents didn't choose to take the survey.

All of this from such a seemingly simple document that seems to be asking for only one of two things. Maybe a slight dose of paranoia helped me to see all of this.

But then, I didn't just make this stuff up out of thin air.

reply posted on 6-2-2008 @ 06:39 AM by manta

I had to fill out one fo these things when i was at school, maybe 5 years ago. No letter were sent asking for permission about 50 of us were picked at random per year to do them. We had no choice in the matter really. It was all about how much alcohol, cigarettes or drugs you normaly take.

I didn't really fancy telling them anything even though it probably was anonymous, so i just filled it in with total junk.

The school then sent them all off to some place and nothing was ever said abotu them again. Maybe it did go into these statistics were always hearing about and nothing sinister was done with it. But plain refusal to do it might be enough to mark you out as a bit of a rebel though. Can't really see it myself though...

reply posted on 6-2-2008 @ 08:04 AM by SoLaR513

When I was in 6th grade way back when it was the first year they did the D.A.R.E program. They had us fill out all kinds of crap like that and they didnt bother to ask my parents permission. I can remember them passing around a sample of weed so we could smell it and then asking if we had ever smelled that at home. Ok boys and girls today we would like you to narc on your parents. Dont be afraid we will place you in a new home.

reply posted on 6-2-2008 @ 08:35 AM by tyranny22

I too remember filling out a questionnaire like this in middle school roughly 15 years ago. Back then they didn't bother with sending home a release form. But, now that we have big brother monitoring out internet, probing about emails and tapping our phones ... why not just a little bit more personal home invasion?

I'm sure that it's just a method of gathering statistics to scare the crap out of parents when they're release the findings and learn that 'lil Johnny is having sex with his classmates in the locker room after smoking pot in the bathroom. I'm glad the government is able to raise my kids and monitor them for me. I've got WAY too much American Idol to watch.

Seriously though, I'd tell them to statistic up their ass.

reply posted on 6-2-2008 @ 09:07 AM by indigothefish

yeah when i was in school three or four years ago a buddy of mine got that. Honestly, there are alot of drugs going around these days, it's a fact. I think a program against drugs and alcohol, hell even under age tobacco smoking is a good idea, what harm could it do?

reply posted on 6-2-2008 @ 10:43 AM by TheoOne

Hi, welcome to ATS! Since you're from the government, are you looking forward to answer any / all of the questions we have?

Regards,
Theo

[edit on 6-2-2008 by TheoOne]

reply posted on 6-2-2008 @ 12:04 PM by Quazga

Originally posted by Buck Division

Originally posted by jpm1602
Hi, I'm from the government and here to help. Not seeing the parallel on this at all.

The title of this thread is great. I got it immediately.

It is something that Ronald Reagan once said:

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help"

I found this quote here, along with some other memorable Reagan quips.

Yet it was old Ronnie who started making people pee in a cup

reply posted on 6-2-2008 @ 12:19 PM by ProfEmeritus

reply to post by SemperParatus

Hi Semper,
I'm NOT from the government, but I am here to help you. Sorry, I just had to say that.
First, don't be concerned. Parents all across the country have been getting this exact survey. The wording in the letter you received is word-for-word identical to letters to parents everywhere. Here's a link to a news report in Charlottesville about it:
www.charlottesvillenewsplex.tv...

By the way, I personally think that this IS an invasion of personal freedom, however, you'll never win that one in court, so don't bother.
As far as opting out, personally I would go in writing to opt out, but I'm certainly not saying you should do that or not. That's your call. I'm just saying what I WOULD do.

Having spent the last part of my working life in academia (although at the college level), I can tell you that academics think they are gods (notice the small g, because I don't want to insult God). It's one of the reasons that 8 years after getting tenure, I decided to retire. I can't tell you how many times people would come out of committee meetings and decide that they wanted to conduct a survey. For what, you say? good question! Here's what you need to understand. It doesn't matter. Somehow, academics need "PROOF". Proof of what? It doesn't matter- it's the academic way. They need numbers. You can't get grants or funds without PROOF- what better PROOF than a survey with lots of impressive numbers. It doesn't matter what the numbers prove or disprove- NOBODY really reads them anyway. To "PROVE" my point, all you need to do is "Google" peer review hoax paper embarrass .. and you'll get all the proof you need.

Now, there are some legitimate academics, but there are many who just try to "look the part". Some of them are "EXPERTS"- you know what that means- they read the material that they are going to present the night before class, then if a student asks them a probing question (which they obviously cannot answer), they tell the student to "read the book". What book- you ask -the book they agreed to adopt from the publishing vendor, that in turn is sending them to Florida for a paid-up "seminar"(translation- boondoggle). And you thought that this stuff only happens in the corporate world? I have another bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

I learned a lot in the time I spent in academia- enough to have total disdain for academia in general. But I digress.

Back to the point- I wouldn't worry about this letter. I don't think anyone is going to come after you, but I would put it in writing, (assuming you don't want to child to participate) that you wish to opt out.

I know this is not for everyone, but have you considered home schooling? It may not be possible for you, and I don't want to know your situation, but given the nonsense that goes on in our educational system, it is an option that you might consider.

I could go on a long time, but it would just get my blood pressure up, so I'll end. Suffice it to say that in my opinion, they would find a better use of their time to IMPROVE the educational standards of the US system. It's poor and getting poorer. In my opinion, "No child left behind" is just another way to gather statistics to "PROVE" that they're doing something. Teaching to a test is not education, it's pure number crunching to hide their incompetency.

The third world and developing countries have a better understanding of what real education is. We sit here in our ivory tower, while the water rises in our moat, and don't understand that the rest of the world is educating for the 21st century. But don't worry- some American Academic can always find a statistic that refutes my view.

Have a nice day....

reply posted on 6-2-2008 @ 12:45 PM by HatTrick

Hey OP, here's a WILD perspective: maybe, just maaayyybeee, someone is really trying to stop drug use and drinking with these kids before it begins. Sounds crazy, huh? My sister died from a methamphetamine overdose. I wish to GOD that her school had such a program when she was in school. I wish she WAS profiled. She might be around to be a fantastic aunt to my kids.

Some of you really need to go outside, take a big breath of fresh air, and realize that it is remotely possible that there are good people in the world trying to do good things (even in our government) and who also really don't need the likes of super paranoia junkies like yourselves trying to gum up the works. Life's way too short to live like that, isn't it?

reply posted on 6-2-2008 @ 12:58 PM by ProfEmeritus

reply to post by HatTrick

HatTrick,
You are correct. It is tragic that your sister died.I 'm sure we all wish someone had taken an interest in your sister. Don't you think it would be better if that someone came from the family, and not the schools? The schools' job is not to raise children, that should be done in the home.

reply posted on 6-2-2008 @ 01:12 PM by HatTrick

True, Prof, and thank you for your condolences, but we were pretty much on our own from a young age. We lived with our dad, who was an AF pilot - TDY a lot, etc... I'm not prone to boo-hooing, so I won't. But I do whole-heartedly agree with you that the family unit is deteriorating, and kids are a God given privilege and responsibility - which is why I'm such an awesome parent (I try, anyway)!

reply posted on 6-2-2008 @ 02:12 PM by ProfEmeritus

reply to post by HatTrick

Hatrick,
I'm sure you are a great parent. The point of my original reply to Semper was to let him know that he need not worry about it. You are right that there certainly should be more done about drugs and alcohol. The issue I was addressing was the privacy issue. The interesting thing is how two-faced the entire system is with privacy. At the elementary school level, the school sees no problem telling the parents what it is doing. However, in the environment that I was in, the Buckley Act forbid us from ever contacting the PARENT about the student, unless the student had given us explicit written authority. As I stated in another thread, if a parent called and wanted to know whether their child was attending classes, we couldn't even acknowledge whether the child was a student of ours, without being charged with violating the Buckley Act. We would always tell the parent that, and then refer them to the registrar's office. Even in the case where a law officer would call and ask for information on a student, we were told to refer them to the registrar's office. What the registrar's office ever did, is a mystery to me. However, I never got calls back from the same person again about the original request.
It was sometimes bizarre to have to tell a calling parent, that we could not discuss grades with them without their child's written permission. They would usually get very hot under the collar, and say something like "I'm paying the tuition bill. I have a right to know Johnnie's/Mary's grade". I would explain to them that I understood their feelings (and believe me I did, because I put my kids through college, before I taught, and tuition was a burden on the family), but that the law was very explicit.
Anyway, I wish you all the happiness that life can bring, and I'm sure your children will grow to be fine people, and they will love you for the care you have given them.
Sometimes, I get very upset with the system, because I do care so much about children and the students, and it really hurt to see what some of my colleagues did. It just got to the point, where I felt I couldn't make a difference any more. One thing that some outside of academia may not understand is how little control a professor may have, as far as his/her schedule and classes that they are allowed to teach. I know it may not seem logical, but those that really understand the subject best, and are good teachers, are not always the ones that get to teach their expertise. Things like seniority, politics, etc. are just as prevalent(IMO more so) in academia.
Anyway, God bless, and I wish you and your family well.

reply posted on 6-2-2008 @ 02:59 PM by julesmac8

My younger sister and myself were also neglected much of our teen years also but this doesn't mean I am willing to sign away my right to privacy to a government that has little or none self control.
I don't mean to sound harsh to the poster who lost a sibling to drugs, I can't imagine how painful that was.
Now that I am also a parent, I try to pay close attention to my kids and to be as involved as possible in all aspects of their lives.
As far as the original post, I called my daughter's school directly regarding any surveys and the woman who answered didn't seem to know anything about any surveys taking place. You can bet your bippy I'll be making regular calls and checking to see if any spring up.

reply posted on 6-2-2008 @ 06:33 PM by jpm1602

SoLar513. Now that is just over the top. They actually passed around a baggie of pot for you to smell. If, I was a parent I would be livid. That teacher should be prosecuted for child endangerment. That really pizzes me off. So wrong.
My major malfunction with all of this is the gov crawling up my business in a nefarious way.

reply posted on 6-2-2008 @ 06:59 PM by Nohup

Originally posted by SemperParatus
reply to post by Nohup

Nohup where do you get off coming on here calling me a fraud.

Hey, hey. Where do you get off saying that I'm calling you a fraud? All I said that it sounded like and Urban Legend, or a UL-type email. I never said that I doubted that you received such a thing, or that you were lying. But this has all the earmarks of a UL, the type that gets people collecting aluminum pull tabs to help finance some kid's dialysis or something. Relax a little.

reply posted on 7-2-2008 @ 10:51 AM by Benevolent Heretic

The survey can be seen here:
Pride Questionnaire

Also: Pride Surveys.com

There is no way I would want my child to take this in this day and age. At one time, it may have been an innocent way to take stock of the country's children's mental well-being, but today? You KNOW this information is going to be processed and put in in a database for later use...

Some of the questions:
Do you attend church?
Do your parents punish you when you break the rules?
Where do you usually smoke marijuana?

This stuff is NONE of the school's OR government's business.

reply posted on 7-2-2008 @ 11:08 AM by geocom

I got suspended from school 20 years ago early on in the this is your brain on drugs campaign 3 days of suspension because I would not fill out the questionnaire, the beauty of this is that the reason I would not is because my
Dad had won a small amount of money on scratch off lottery tickets ( a few hundred dollars) and while he was filling out the paper work they were asking questions so he told me if anyone asks you question like this or about home ever just tell them it is none of your business...

So me in all my wisdom at the age of 15 I told the school that anything that I or my family do at home or away from school was none of their damn business (way to go smart guy) they even had a local police officer from the dare program tell me that I have to or I was going to get in trouble with the law I said well I can call my Dad and ask and after that they left me alone but still gave me a 3 days vacation and my Dad went every day to the school and picked up my homework (I have a great father) stood by my side and told me he was proud that I stood up for what I believed in..

Respectfully
GEO

[edit on 2/7/2008 by geocom]

reply posted on 25-4-2008 @ 09:52 AM by joshblass

I remember taking a very similar survey when I was in middle school/high school. The one I took also had to do with bringing weapons to school, abuse at home, etc. I just put down that I did herion and meth several times a week and frequently brought weapons to school. (which of course I didn't really do)

I never heard about it again, so I doubt these tests are being used for anything other than statistical analysis. I mean if it really wasn't anonymous I would have been searched the very next day.

Declining to fill it out would have simply called attention to myself. I think I pissed them off more by skewing the statistics. (several of my friends filled them out the same way I did)

reply posted on 25-4-2008 @ 10:13 AM by SystemiK

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The survey can be seen here:
Pride Questionnaire

Did anyone notice section XVI on page 2 of the questionaire? There are answer spaces for 10 additional questions but the questions are not listed. I'd bet my lunch money that those 10 questions would raise some eyebrows if shown on the survey...

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