Forbidden Egyptology

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt
Harte -

Re: British archaeologist Joann Fletcher 'not following protocol'.

Jane Brink did not follow the protocol in that she annouced her find and did not tell Hawass personally that she was going to do it – as he is head of the SCA panel of a 100 who made the edict -- One imagines that this is because of his tendancy to take over the projects and take the credit for discoveries in Giza. (There is a pattern here as this is Hawass' excuse for most of the banned explorers we are disucussing.)

I've said here that I thought Hawass was too much of a showman. But if you're gonna get a permit from the SCA, you are agreeing to abide by the protocols in the permit.

You don't like it then dig in Ethiopia or somewhere.

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt
Dietrich Wildung, an eminent scholar who runs the Egyptian Museum in Berlin:

Harte: For conspiring to steal ancient artifacts (care to defend this?)

Yeah, actually I do. Here ya go:

"The ... authorities have incontrovertible evidence that he was involved in the illegal trafficking and buying of antiquities," Hawass wrote in his column for the English edition of the Egyptian newspaper Al-Ahram. But when asked why Egypt, two years later, still hasn't moved to indict Wildung -- as Italian authorities recently did in bringing a case against Marion True, the J. Paul Getty Museum's curator of antiquities -- Hawass acknowledges that the tapes are hearsay that can't prove a case.

Wildung, once friendly with Hawass, is now banned from excavating in Egypt but denies any wrongdoing. He says Hawass is playing to Egyptian public opinion and perhaps retaliating because Wildung criticized him for empty showmanship on a 2001 TV special that put a robot into a pyramid. "For populistic reasons, he has unfortunately invented these stories, which are 500% against my personal conviction and my understanding as a museum professional," Wildung says from his Munich home.

So Hawass acknowledges there is no proof, it is hearsay . The Defense rests, moving on.

There is no court case, Wildung is not charged with a crime.
This means, in a democracy like mine, that the man would then be free to exercise his rights. Are you claiming that he has some "right" to excavate in Egypt? See, the suspicion is enough to preclude him from getting a permit because he has no absolute right to dig.

You know, of course, that the vast majority of Egyptian antiquities lie illegally in other countries?

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt

Harte - Not West. Ironic that you make this claim, considering West (and Bauval) actually live in Egypt. "Banned?" I think not.

Well, you think wrong and you know it. They may live there, but they are certainly not being granted permits to work in Giza. It is officially known and accounted in multiple news sources that West and Schoch were forcibly ejected from Giza in 1993 after the ‘water eroded the sphinx’ discoveries, and West (or Schoch) has never been granted a permit again from Hawass despite repeated request.

I believe I said as much in my post. Neither West nor Hancock has the credentials required by the SCA for permitting. Nor are they (either one) associated with any accredited University or otherwise scholarly group - both requirements for permitting unless a waiver is granted by the SCA.
Yet, Hawass has allowed Hancock access too areas that you or I could not have access to:

As John West kindly reported in his open letter to Stower I have changed my views on the validity of the forgery theory. The relieving chambers are strictly off limits to the public and are extremely difficult to gain access to. I had been unable to obtain permission to visit them prior to the publication of Keeper/Message in 1996. However, in December 1997, Dr Zahi Hawass allowed me to spend an entire day exploring these chambers. There were no restrictions on where I looked and I had ample time to examine the hieroglyphs closely, under powerful lights. Cracks in some of the joints reveal hieroglyphs set far back into the masonry. No 'forger' could possibly have reached in there after the blocks had been set in place - blocks, I should add, that weigh tens of tons each and that are immovably interlinked with one another. The only reasonable conclusion is the one which orthodox Egyptologists have already long held - namely that the hieroglyphs are genuine Old Kingdom graffiti and that they were daubed on the blocks before construction began.

Source

Why would Egypt let a retired journalist dig around in some of the most important (archaeologically speaking) ground on Earth?

You are aware, are you not, that West is an author, not a scholar? He is best known as a tour guide, in fact. And that is primarily how he makes his living.

I'd like to see evidence that Schoch has been prevented in any way from research in Egypt. Applications for permits to do subsurface scans around the Sphinx are routinely ignored, as the entire area has been scanned twice now and parts of it three times. With accompanying excavations two of those times. Given that the technology for such work hasn't vastly improved since the last time (I believe it was the late 1990's) it's not surprising that no permits for this sort of work have been granted since then.

Assuming, that is, that Schoch has even applied since then and also assuming that such subsurface testing was what he was applying for (that's been his M.O. at Giza.)

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt

Harte - The link claims Gatenbrink was banned, but in fact he was not. He lost his backing from the German museum he was working for and thus had no status to do work in Egypt - according to Egyptian law.

First of all he was working for the "The German Archaeological Institute", who got the permits, allowed him to investigate, he made various discoveries, recorded them, told GAI and Hawass and waited for 22 days for an annoucement that was not forthcoming. He then, to my mind rightfully, got paranoid and left Egypt with the footage.

The whole episode devolved into a various and nefarious seeming scandal:

The official reason given by the Egyptian Antiquities Authorities (known as the Supreme Council of Antiquities - SCA - ) was that Gantenbrink leaded the news of the discovery to the British Press in April 1993 and thus, apparently, broke a 'rule' of archaeology. The director of the German Archaeological Institute in Cairo, Dr. Rainer Stadelmann, sided with the Egyptians and condemned Gantenbrink for his press action. Dr. Stadelmann was adamant about the non-importance of the find. "This is not a door; there is nothing behind it." The President of the Supreme Council for Antiquities, Dr. Muhamad Bakr, went as far as claiming a 'hoax'. "The orifice of the shaft is too small for the robot to go through" and accused the "German scientist" of not having the correct 'approvals' from the SCA to carry out the exploration.

Dr. Bakr fired the Chief Inspector of the Giza Pyramid Plateau, Dr. Zahi Hawass, although the official reason given was that a valuable ancient 'statue' under the custody of Hawass was stolen from Giza. Three months later, in June 1993, Dr. Bakr himself was fired and replaced by Dr. Nur El Din. Amid accusations of malpractice and fraud, Dr. Bakr spoke of a "Mafia" which had been involved with the Pyramids for the "last twenty years" . Refusing to give names, Dr. Bakr said, "I wanted the whole matter investigated by the prosecution authorities, but my request was refused."

Meanwhile, Dr. Hawass, who went to the USA, claimed that the discovery of the 'door' was "THE discovery in Egypt," and speculated that there are important artifacts behind it. In early 1994, Dr. Hawass was reinstalled at his post at the Giza Pyramids. Meanwhile, Gantenbrink offered his robot to the Egyptians and also offered to train an Egyptian technician to man the equipment and open the door. The Egyptians rejected the offer; "We are very busy at the moment," replied Dr. Nur El Din.

Source?

here's an interview with Hawass in 1997:

Guardian: What about the German discovery of a new door in the Queen's Chamber air vent of the Great Pyramid? Why aren't they being allowed to continue their research and open that door?

Dr. Hawass: Much of the comments about this have come from Mr. Gantenbrink (a German robotics expert) and Mr. Bauval, who is a friend of Mr. Gantenbrink. Mr. Gantenbrink was a member of a team of researchers under the recognized leadership of the German Archaeological Institute in Cairo. The German Institute has the concession [note: a concession is a permit to investigate a certain area], not Mr. Gantenbrink. As of today, no application for further research has been submitted by the German Institute. Apparently there is some difference of opinion between Mr. Gantenbrink and the German Institute.
The discovery, by the way, is hardly a door in the usual sense. The so-called "air-shaft" is smaller than 20 cm square. The robot-mounted camera came to a blocking stone with two copper pins embedded in its face. This stopped further progress of the robot. If this is a door, it is only big enough for a rat! The plug is many meters up in the solid masonry of the pyramid, how should this so-called "door" be opened without damaging the pyramid?

Guardian: Is it true that a Canadian research team is going to pick up where the German researchers left off?

Dr. Hawass: As of today, we have received no proposal from Canadians to work in the Khufu Pyramid.

Continued.


[edit on 9/11/2008 by Harte]

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt

HARTE-
Points? Who cares? Points from a mod that believes all this happy crappy? The word "meaningless" overstates the value of these points you hold so dearly.

Points indicate how much of a contribution, and in the rare instances of Mods applauding a post, the quality of the post. So yes, they are dear in that respect, if you respect the medium.

Points do not make up for ignorance. Education does.

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt

Take note of the ATS logo at the top of the page. Can you read what it says under it? Are you and others here "insulted" by that?
The post I referred to was filled with pure ignorance. I am fighting that.

You don't like it? Why should I care? You are merely showing your own ignorance in standing up for a post that was completely and utterly ignorant in it's content.

And here you take the opportunity to once again display your nasty dispostion.

Harte, I dislike being personal but seeing how comfortable you are with it in regards to others... allow me to say I sincerely hope you don't conduct yourself in real-life the way you do on these boards because if so, you must be living a friendless, lonely life with a bunch of co-workers and family that, best-case-scenario, just profoundly resent the-hell-out-of you.

I do quite nicely, thank you. In the "real world" as well as here on ATS and at other forums.

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt

Harte - Of course, the supposed "evidence" you submit for Hawass "banning" a bunch of people from (I suppose you mean from conducting digs) Giza or Egypt or whatever (you weren't clear in exactly what they were "banned" from - conveniently unclear, I'd say) betrays either a large dose of ignorance on your own part, or some agenda you are trying to put forward by making false, or misleading, claims.

And you and your cohorts using the 'you didn't say the exact definition of your language' to dance around a point when you are losing ground -- and the old-standby of unless you are specifically making false and misleading statements' to try to cast yourselves in the 'light of right' when you have failed to make a point is not going to work with me.

Hardly. I would think that, if one was to make a claim, then one should be able to provide evidence for the claim, and not simply link to websites that don't even mention the claimed event.

Of course, that's assuming the absence of ignorance - an assumption that usually is not called for lately.

Your "evidence" was to say the least nonexistant. Yet you made the claim as if it were real. This is either an accident or it is purposefully misleading. I merely pointed this fact out. Sorry if you got burned, but if you wouldn't make it so easy to reveal your penchant for lying to make your point, then perhaps you wouldn't be called on it so often.

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt
It is also my hope that it will stop working for those who are cowed by your 'know-it-all-stop-the-dialogue-at-all-costs-in-order-to-be-right' bullying tactics that not only dominate this forum, but usually grind threads to a halt.

So, where am I wrong?

Originally posted by TheWayISeeItSo, until we can all learn how to get along, respectfully share differing opinions and learn from each other as we debate alternative topics and ideas... I will keep living to fight another day...

And, apparently continue to pump the site with ignorance.

Harte


[edit on 9/11/2008 by Harte]

A little late but i would like to add to this thread.
Around 1998 i was researching secret teck and came arcoss a story about directions on how to make a key for the great pyrimid. I can not remember the time this took place but it was when Anwah Sudatt, (mind the spelling) was in power and also one of the people who used this key to open a door in the pyrimid. If i remember correctly the key was like a tuning fork that made frequncy waves and when hit apond the wall of pyrimid, caused the rock door to vibrate open and reviel a entrance to a stairway leading down.
To make a long story short, inside was all the Anunaki teck that they left behind or stored.
There was a book being made about the findings but all that was ever found by me was some papers on the net that were to be used in writting the book.
In the end the book was never made and all of the people involved in the opening of the door have been killed. I saw and you still can see Mr sudat be assasinated on T.V. I remember clear as a bell see the army open up on him durring a parade.
Inside were all the teck things we wish to have in our hands. I.E: time mechine, the ME's and so on.
Also in my research back then i remembera story about the ship the Anunaki used to flee earth during the flood was stored under the the Giza site. It is that big and this may explain why they are building a wall around the area to be able to unearth this ship.

Thats my two pennies worth and great thread dude.
K.

Did anyone catch Robert Bauval on coast to coast am on the 15th? I remember him saying he didnt believe in an extra terrestrial theory for the pyramids.




www.emisarre.info

New meat on "Forbidden Egyptology":

The KV-63 Conspiracy

More new meat on Forbidden Egyptology:

Serapis - genetically engineered Hybrid?


Some meat on a related subject:

Artifact from Atlantis?




[edit on 23-9-2008 by Skyfloating]

More meat still:

Osirion Thread

Strange Inscriptions on Pyramid

I think we are in terrible danger of losing so much information because some 'Islamic Sacred Site" gets declared on every world heritage location and if they don't suppress info then it the Vatican ,I'm so sick of all this . I get a definate feeling that they don't want anyone to know the truth and of course they know what the 'Truth is because they've positioned themselves on top of 'It'. what to do what to do?

OK, I've read the entire thread, links and all. Sky great work, you and Spacevisitor did a wonderful job of holding your own. I only have one comment in the negative and that is for Hearte. Learn to relax man! We are not sitting in your class ignoring you. Everyone has a different opnion about things and you don't have to ALWAYS BE RIGHT. Sorry, that was a personal attack but just try to consider another POV sometimes.

Seagrass, always a pleasure to see you log in. You always bring a breath of fresh air to the threads.

I still see both sides and still fall somewhere in the middle (sorry Harte, I'm the guy that gets the answer right but not the proper formula but it works for me).

Keep up the good work everyone!

I just want to thank everyone that participated in this thread, there is alot of great info that is being brought forth through everyone. I do believe we are going to find great new things. Egypt has thousands of yrs. that are built right on top of the former, and then again built ontop of that former, ect ect....

I think its obvious, to our inner nature, that Egypt holds old ancient knowledge we once had. Mabey this knowledge became dangerous to mankind because man began to use it in the wrong way. Mabey its being protected till the right time.

If there is ancient knowledge, of corse the ones in power are going to want to keep it for themselves, for it will aid them in being powerful. Saddly, the world leaders dont want to unite, escpecially with the 'normal' average everyday person. They are actually stealing a birth right in a way. I am born of earth so I consider that I have a birth right to learn anything that the earth or man has left for me. But, there are men who take this right...they wont let me dig, they wont let me seek, they wont let me tred my feet where I wish. We all should have the rights to seek where we feel the desire to, we all should have the right to find knowledge where we think it can be found. But, man stands guard, with his guns, and says we cant do these things.

Peace to all,
LV

Bump

Hope you don't mind, but this is arguably one of the finest threads within ATS history. Best we keep the thread active.

I have been very skeptical about Zahi Hawass. I'm not convinced he's being honest although I'm not aware of any hard evidence. I think he plays the crowds as do many others.

the following is what I wrote about him on my site:

Dr. Zahi Hawass is the Secretary General of the Supreme Council of Antiquities.
He is often portrayed as the leading expert of Ancient Egypt. You've probably seen him on TV if you've ever watched any shows about Egypt. He often gets very excited about his work and can be fun to watch; However he also seems to take personal offence when people raise doubts about the official version of Egyptian history. In many cases the theories that he complains about realy are flawed. However the official version isn't adding up completly either. Ancient Egypt is supposed to be more primative than modern sociaty yet they were able to build spectacular monuments that can't be replicated today. This clearly implies that there is a big unsolved mystery here. It is highly unprofessional for the leading expert on Egypt to be behaving this way. this is the type of behavoir you might expect from demogogues or politicians. When scientists that are supposed to base there beliefs on facts and evidence use ridicule to make their point and ignore inconveniant facts this raises serious doubts about there objectivity. This is true even if the scientist is right. Most if not all of these theories to explain Ancient Egypt are flawed but in order to sort out what is wrong with them you have to look at what is wrong with them not just get upset and say "That is ridiculous". For example one of the thoeries that came up recently was that the pyramid blocks were made out of concrete blocks made out of ground granite. If this was true they should have been able to recognize it much soner; and it still would have used and enomous amount of work to grind the granite. It would still be an amazing wonder of the world that can't be replicated today. But the evidence doesn't support this theory. It would be much more professional to explain this without getting upset than to intimidate anyone who disagrees with you. Zahi Hawass has reacted in a similar way to people that claim Atlanteans or aliens built the pyramids. These are far fetched ideas and it may be possible to disprove them but if their not true then something else is; and the official story isn't completely adding up so if you want to figure out what the real explanation is you have to consider other possibilities even far fetched or bizzare ones because it appears as if the truth is far fetched in this case.
Never the less he is the leading representitive of ancient Egypt and he has spent a lot of time studying Egypt so I still recommend you hear him out just use your own discretion.

For more see 107 Wonders of the Ancient World

I'll have to take a closer look at this string and others of yours skyfloating.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I have something interesting for you, about Dr. Hawass.

Are you aware he participated in a UK show called "Paranormal Egypt", where a British psychic travelled around the Giza plateau? I found it quite strange after he ridiculed others for believing in such nonsense.

Hawass was present when the psychic alleged to channel Pharaoh Ramses III.

I'll see if I can locate any episodes online - especially when the psychic discuss ancient astronauts with Dr. Hawass (who didn't seem sceptical at all)

reply to post by infinite


No I wasnt aware of that. But it fits in perfectly with his association with ET-Channellers. Thanks for the addition.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Old Hawass will go anywhere to get a bit of media exposure. He seems tolerant of new age beliefs as long as it doesn't involved drilling holes willy-nilly or dynamiting the Gizah plateau!



[edit on 2/4/09 by Hanslune]

reply to post by Skyfloating



Since there is no way to check 70+ threads.

I wanted to pass on FWIW, that the Talmud said that 10 measures of evil were handed out and Egypt got 9 of them and the rest of the planet got the other one.

I never got the page reference and I didn't get a further explanation.

I understand that much of what they knew was wordsmithing and false trails as diversions.

I hope you find the info useful.

reply to post by Hanslune




I think he's a crafty old codger that is holding a lot back. [ omitting ]

I read that the Sphinx was a tribute to Shem who supposedly killed Nimrod, and that it was comprised of Shems head on the body of a lion to signify his fierceness!

I can't prove it, I just wonder if there was other sources out there to confirm that?!

reply to post by zacherystaylor



Nice link!!!....

I followed a link to Nimrud, named after Nimrod...ended up at Wiki, but I noticed something quite common, and that was the reference to Nimrod as a great hunter. There is an omission with that but I can't recall the source. The rest of the definition was , of souls, as in the corruption he brought down on mankind under his rule. I'm sure you know what a den of iniquity it was, like having all of what is bad in vegas inside a church with everyone participating.

I don't think it would be a stretch to equate it with sodom and gomorrah. I am sure that great hunter of souls is the correct definition. Nimrod was not really hunting animals, but men.

reply to post by toasted


ten measures

comes from the Kiddushin, folio 49, column 2

Link to a secondary source

21 Ten measures of wisdom came down to the world the land of Israel received nine and the rest of the world but one only Ten measures of beauty came down to the world Jerusalem monopolised nine and the rest of the world had only one Ten measures of riches came down to the world Rome laid hold of nine and left the rest of the world but one for a portion Ten measures of poverty came down to the world nine fell to the lot of Babylon and one to the rest of the world Ten measures of pride came down to the world Elam appropriated nine and to the rest of the world but one remained over Ten measures of bravery came to the world Persia took nine leaving but one for the rest of the world Ten measures of vermin came to the world nine fell to the Medes and one to the rest of the world Ten measures of sorcery came down to the world Egypt received nine and one was shared by the rest of the world Ten measures of plagues came

continued

into the world nine measures were allotted to the swine and the rest of the world had the other Ten measures of fornication came into the world nine of these belong to the Arahs and to the rest of the world the other Ten measures of impudence found its way into the world Mishan appropriated nine leaving one to the rest of the world Ten measures of talk came into the world women claimed nine leaving the tenth to the rest of the world Ten measures of early rising came into the world they of Ethiopia received nine and the rest of the world one only Ten measures of sleep came to the world the servants took nine of them leaving one measure to the rest of the world

The relevant part

Ten measures of sorcery came down to the world Egypt received nine and one was shared by the rest of the world

I believe at the time this was written the Arabs had not conquered Egypt


[edit on 4/4/09 by Hanslune]