Forbidden Egyptology

Originally posted by PhotonEffect
They are hardly the huge stones carved out of limestone, alabaster, and granite weighing upto 75 tons a piece that were used at Giza.

You make that sound like its something special. We have moved up to 1500 ton with "primitive" tools (Thunder stone)... Slabs weighing 500+ ton isnt unheard of.

A really simple logical statement: If you can move object A one time, you have the capability to move object A an infinite amount of times.

Egyptians knew how to move really heavy stones: every one of their megalithic buildings show that. They just needed to move alot of them to build the pyramids.

reply to post by Skyfloating


The Sphinx and Pyramids, always interesting and intriguing.
Great thread Skyfloating, starred and flagged.

Originally posted by woodwytch

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Something is hidden under the Sphinx and Pyramid; secret chambers with mummies, a grand treasure room, who knows.

Yes, it is !!!

Originally posted by Harte
Actually, no it's not. The idea has been thoroughly investigated with Hawass' express permission.

Well, here are some positive research results for cavities beneath the Sphinx.

The last site investigated by the Japanese [Waseda University in Japan] was the Sanctuary of the Sphinx.
The conclusion of the Japanese work suggests that the sanctuary of the Sphinx contains more cavities below the Sphinx than were previously known.

Source; www.catchpenny.org...

- the hidden chamber:
Since the 70s, radar and other sophisticated machines have probed the ground around the Sphinx. Each time, experts discovered "holes" in the ground below the Sphinx and the causeway between the Sphinx and the pyramids. "hole" means there is possibly a room hidden under the Sphinx.

Egyptian authorities have always been reluctant up to now, they've always refused to dig the ground to see if those "holes" where built by men or simply natural. It seems that the situation is changing now, the pyramids will be closed for six months this year. It's the first time in six years it happens. It means that the Egyptian authorities will, perhaps, dig the ground to discover if there is really something hidden under the Sphinx.

Source; www.geocities.com...

Interesting isn’t it?

Originally posted by merka

Originally posted by PhotonEffect
They are hardly the huge stones carved out of limestone, alabaster, and granite weighing upto 75 tons a piece that were used at Giza.

You make that sound like its something special. We have moved up to 1500 ton with "primitive" tools (Thunder stone)... Slabs weighing 500+ ton isnt unheard of.

And you make it sound like it's not. How is it not special? They carved, moved, and placed millions of these huge and heavy stones, not to mention with a precision that this world has never seen anywhere else, ever. To me that's pretty remarkable, sorry.

We have moved up to 1500 ton with "primitive" tools (Thunder stone)... Slabs weighing 500+ ton isnt unheard of..

I'm sure 'we' have.. I'm not saying that moving a few huge megalithic stones can't be done. It's the scale by which it was done in Egypt that gets me, because we have know idea really, just pure speculation based on some tool fragments. It doesn't add up.

Take the 75 ton granite stones used in the GP-- those were brought from 600 miles (800km) away. Think about that. What kind of nautical equipment would have been needed to do that? And how long would just that part of the project have taken?

I don't believe those Pyramids were built in the time frame mainstream Egyptologists have stated. It would've taken much longer I think.




[edit on 10-2-2008 by PhotonEffect]

reply to post by PhotonEffect


Not only is the scale of the pyramids amazing. Also consider Baalbek and Teohuanaco.

yes, move one huge stone is not a problem. But, for those of us that have had to move when we got a new house, moving something once is not the hard part.

Those who disagree are welcome to come to my house and try to get my couch out the front door. Perhaps if you can do it, you will become the master of Asia (LOL, the Gordian Couch).

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Not only is the scale of the pyramids amazing. Also consider Baalbek and Teohuanaco.

You are absolute right about those places to bigfatfurrytexan.
The size and techniques what are used there are absolute breathtaking.
How in heavens name do you move a brick like this for instance?

www.sitchin.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

Source; www.sitchin.com...

What tools where used to create this precision-made 6 mm wide
groove?

www.world-mysteries.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

Source; www.world-mysteries.com...

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I'm with you. Moving sucks big time.

Can you imagine what it must've been like to move tons of stone in the heat of the desert, for years on end?

As a side note to the precision and enormity of scale on display with the Pyramids in Giza, one should also consider The Valley Temple, situated right next to the Sphinx. There are clear similarities between this and the Great Pyramid with respect to the huge granite stones that were used. And the precision...

Look at these pics of the jointed corners found in the temple, this is absolutely unreal to me:
(keep in mind that these are made of granite)




How on earth? Look at this...


This block goes 'around' the corner...



These pillars weigh 200 tons a piece, they make up the temple ceiling... How were these laid?



Source of pics.


As an architect/engineer (among other things), Imhotep was highly regarded and very well respected as one of the best in Ancient Egypt. He was regarded as a deity and was given divine status after death. He was probably responsible for designing the 'first' step pyramid at Saqqara.

He gets all this respect and recognition partly for that step pyramid, but what about the designer of the Great Pyramid, or the Valley Temple. There is some remarkable engineering going in these structures that bears no resemblance to that of the step pyramid, yet we know nothing of who is responsible for their impeccable design. Zilch. Architect unknown. That's curious.

Originally posted by spacevisitor

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Not only is the scale of the pyramids amazing. Also consider Baalbek and Teohuanaco.

You are absolute right about those places to bigfatfurrytexan.
The size and techniques what are used there are absolute breathtaking.
How in heavens name do you move a brick like this for instance?

www.sitchin.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

Source; www.sitchin.com...

Whoa. Where in the world was that found?

Edit to add:

bigfatfurrytexan,

I also agree that the structures at Baalbek and Tianhuanco are quite unbelievable in their achievement. There are structures in Sacsayhuama that utilize interlocking stones (such as can be found around the structures in Giza) that made them earthquake proof. Interestingly though(like the Ancient Egyptians) the Incas had no knowledge of advanced mathematics or the wheel, and had no iron tools; yet somehow engineered these massive megalithic structures? Some stones that they used were brought from quarries 1500 miles away thru the mountains... how could this be?
Source


[edit on 10-2-2008 by PhotonEffect]

reply to post by Skyfloating


Can you provide more information on the 'vase' that you posted a picture of? I find it very intriguing, is it ceramic work and from which dynastic period is it from...if it isn't a vase what do you think it is. I can't find it on the museum web-site so I assume it is your own photo.

Also are you suggesting that the Egyptians practiced skull binding in emulation of ET visitors or are you suggesting that there was no binding and they were born that way? I know that the Andeans were fond of this form of self-mutilation but I was unaware of the Egyptian practice. Although as you point out with the photo of Nefretti it is feasible and the why therefore becomes more tantilising....

The Ivory statues are also interesting and very reminiscent of early christian religious art, expecially in the coptic and eastern orthodoxy...can you tell me which dynastic period they are from....I don't mean to go off topic but I couldn't look into myself as there is no source...presumably because they are your own photos, but I am very interested.

Many thanks

Originally posted by PhotonEffect
Take the 75 ton granite stones used in the GP-- those were brought from 600 miles (800km) away. Think about that. What kind of nautical equipment would have been needed to do that? And how long would just that part of the project have taken?

What kind of nautical equipment? Duh, I dont know... like... The Nile!

They didnt drag a 75 ton stone 800km through the desert. I dont know exactly where the Aswan quarry is (if that is what you are talking about), but from Aswan to the river and from the river to the Great Pyramid, using Google Earth, its a 10-15km land route. And that's assuming modern Nile, with no modifications. In ancient egypt, we may be talking less than 10km on land, maybe even less than 5km!!!

I dont see the pyramid as anything remarkable in terms of engineering. Yes its big. Its freakin huge and they where very skilled, no doubt. But in the end, its just a pile of stones. It took a very long time, with hard labour to finish it.

I've said it before and I'm saying it again: Its nearly impossible to imagine the effort. We cant even relate to it, because modern society doesnt work like the Egyptian did. I would be very interested seeing someone "translate" the pyramid to modern standards of a country like America.

Imagine 50 years with 50% of the US budget. That's 75 trillion dollars. What could it build? (for those having a problem with trillions, that's 75,000,000 millions I believe. Man would I love to have that, in your face Bill Gates!!! )

[edit on 10-2-2008 by merka]

Originally posted by merka

Originally posted by PhotonEffect
Take the 75 ton granite stones used in the GP-- those were brought from 600 miles (800km) away. Think about that. What kind of nautical equipment would have been needed to do that? And how long would just that part of the project have taken?

What kind of nautical equipment? Duh, I dont know... like... The Nile!

First off, you may not know this about me, but I'm not an idiot. It's quite apparent they would've needed to use the Nile as a waterway for transport.

Secondly, you quite obviously are misunderstanding what I mean when I say 'nautical equipment.' So allow me to clarify.

The Nile is not nautical equipment, its a river. I meant equipment in the sense of boats or maybe even barges. When I asked 'what kind of' I meant as in how big or what type of. Basically, what types of water vessels would've had to have been built in order to accommodate and transport the hundreds, maybe even thousands of tons of granite down the river from, yes Aswan, some 600 miles away?

They didnt drag a 75 ton stone 800km through the desert.

Well that's a relief.

And that's assuming modern Nile, with no modifications. In ancient egypt, we may be talking less than 10km on land, maybe even less than 5km!!!

5, 10, 15km, even that shorter distance is quite a feat to drag 75-200 ton stone blocks thru the desert. Let's see you and some buddies do it.

I dont see the pyramid as anything remarkable in terms of engineering. Yes its big. Its freakin huge and they where very skilled, no doubt. But in the end, its just a pile of stones. It took a very long time, with hard labour to finish it.

Quite an understatement on all levels. You're entitled to your opinion though. But it's frustrating to hear people label them "as just a pile of stones." I see that quite a lot around here. It seems ignorant to me. These are wonders of the world you're talking about.

I've said it before and I'm saying it again: Its nearly impossible to imagine the effort. We cant even relate to it, because modern society doesnt work like the Egyptian did.

What's on display at Giza is quite frankly superhuman IMO. The amount of effort that went into it, like you said, is quite difficult to imagine in our 'modern' world on a human level. So how did seemingly very human people do it? And where is the hard evidence that says it was the Egyptians? Because most of what I've seen from mainstream Egyptology is all circumstantial.

I would be very interested seeing someone "translate" the pyramid to modern standards of a country like America.

Here, check this out. It will give you an idea of what it would cost modern day man with modern equipment, etc etc to build the Great Pyramid.

[edit on 10-2-2008 by PhotonEffect]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Notice the head of the little child on the left.

[edit on 9-2-2008 by Skyfloating]

Hi Skyfloating, indeed very interesting.
Found this one.
euler.slu.edu..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>
Source; euler.slu.edu...

sorry, seeing to late that you posted it already in an earlier reply.


[edit on 10/2/08 by spacevisitor]

Originally posted by spacevisitor

Found this one.
euler.slu.edu..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>
Source; euler.slu.edu...

sorry, seeing to late that you posted it already in an earlier reply.

Oh, thats just fine. Post them as often as you want. People need to be seeing these strange pictures from the past and start asking themselves just what the **** was going on back then.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

 

The pyramids have not been taken apart in this manner, and I for one, hope they never will be. If they were I can promise you what we would find is a typical step pyramid design, with the "steps" filled in by ramping and face stones. Why? Because it makes the most sense.

Yes. Several new spiral ramp designs were recently proposed to match the internal structure revealed by microgravimetry.

Originally posted by PhotonEffect
I meant equipment in the sense of boats or maybe even barges. When I asked 'what kind of' I meant as in how big or what type of. Basically, what types of water vessels would've had to have been built in order to accommodate and transport the hundreds, maybe even thousands of tons of granite down the river from, yes Aswan, some 600 miles away?

I dont understand. We know the egyptians had ships: I remember one even being dug up by the pyramid. I dont know how big or what type they where, but they where more than likely large enough to carry at least 75 ton stones. They even made that 1200 ton obelisk at Aswan that was never moved: obviously they thought they could ship it!

5, 10, 15km, even that shorter distance is quite a feat to drag 75-200 ton stone blocks thru the desert. Let's see you and some buddies do it.

Well give me a work crew of 10,000 men or so and I'm sure I could do it. Unfortunetly, my buddy list doesnt extend that far.

Quite an understatement on all levels. You're entitled to your opinion though. But it's frustrating to hear people label them "as just a pile of stones." I see that quite a lot around here. It seems ignorant to me. These are wonders of the world you're talking about.

Well how are you supposed to describe it? Its as much a pile of stones as Aztec pyramids, or those Chinese pyramids (well they're more piles of dirt). It doesnt matter that its a wonder of the world. If the pyramid had somehow been standing upside down I'd agree it wasnt a pile.

What's on display at Giza is quite frankly superhuman IMO. The amount of effort that went into it, like you said, is quite difficult to imagine in our 'modern' world on a human level. So how did seemingly very human people do it? And where is the hard evidence that says it was the Egyptians? Because most of what I've seen from mainstream Egyptology is all circumstantial.

It feel superhuman if you only look at Giza. Think on it. If you saw 1 skyscraper in the middle of nowhere, it'd be amazing, fill you with awe and probably leave you breathless at its size. But if you look at the New York skyline, its suddenly not so amazing anymore, is it? Its a just an average city skyline. The Egyptians didnt only build the Great Pyramid. Look at all of it. Look at them as a civilization, imagine how many cities they had, the effort to build them. How many temples. Etc and so on.

Here, check this out. It will give you an idea of what it would cost modern day man with modern equipment, etc etc to build the Great Pyramid.

That wasnt what I was saying though. I am actually talking about the opposite: using the eqvivalent effort of the Great Pyramid construction today on a nation such as America.

For example, building a bridge across the Atlantic ocean.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Hanslune

Do I understand you correctly, you are claiming that ancient Egyptians could work granite but that NO ONE else has been able to do so until 1907?

Is this correct?

I will play it safe and say that others may have been able to work granite as well. But I dont know about them.

Many other cultures worked granite to include the Romans, Greeks and Indians. Granite cannon balls were popular in early artilery too! Red granite columns in the Pantheon and in S. Maria degli Angeli.


Many large Hindu temples in southern India, particularly those built by the 11th century king Rajaraja Chola I, were made of granite. There is a large amount of granite in these structures. They are comparable to the Great Pyramid of Giza.

How the Egyptians worked the solid granite is still a matter of debate. Dr. Patrick Hunt has postulated that the Egyptians used emery shown to have higher hardness on the Mohs scale.

hebsed.home.comcast.net...
Kakatiya Temples:
query.nytimes.com...

"Roman Granite Quarrying in Egypt," Cuyahoga Archeological Society, March 1993

"The Technology of Granite Quarrying and the Ideology of Granite Use," Ohio Classical Converence and Kent-Akron Society Archaeological Institute of America, November 1992

"Augustus, Aswan Granite and Augustan Ideology," Ohio Classical Conference, November 1992

Lots of info on that, best to research more and "intuitive" less

Oh another note, don't read to much into AE pictures, based on those males have red and women yellow skin.....imagine someone not knowledgeable in western culture pondering Picasso's pictures of women.



[edit on 10/2/08 by Hanslune]

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Some of the posted photos are from private collections (not mine) of people I know who have taken pictures in the museum. I am not sure of the materials and periods so I´ll refrain from speculation. However, Ive been to the museum in cairo twice and can tell you that its well worth the visit. You will see hundreds of objects that dont fit any category and (unfortunately) have not been categorized or labeled by the museum but only carelessly put on display without any further information. Add to that thousands of objects that the museum is not putting on display, due to space reasons, and there is more to be discovered there than on google.
When asking museum staff about various objects you often get unsatisfactory answers.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Also are you suggesting that the Egyptians practiced skull binding in emulation of ET visitors or are you suggesting that there was no binding and they were born that way? I know that the Andeans were fond of this form of self-mutilation but I was unaware of the Egyptian practice. Although as you point out with the photo of Nefretti it is feasible and the why therefore becomes more tantilising....

I cant be certain if they were born that way or emulated it. But if its emulation we are seeing then you have to ask yourself what they are emulating.

Originally posted by Hanslune

How the Egyptians worked the solid granite is still a matter of debate. Dr. Patrick Hunt has postulated that the Egyptians used emery shown to have higher hardness on the Mohs scale.

Thanks for the source. At first sight however, it looks like machine drilling to me. At first sight it doesnt look like you can get those fine/precise/smooth lines from anything other than machinery.

[edit on 11-2-2008 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Thanks for the source. At first sight however, it looks like machine drilling to me. At first sight it doesnt look like you can get those fine/precise/smooth lines from anything other than machinery.

Well maybe it really was machinery.

That is, human/animal powered machinery. Modern machines is really just a substitute for hard labour and "natural" power (humans, animals, winds, water, etc).

Just thinking on random, imagine if they had some sort of "spear" of hard material set up on a big horizontal wheel with a dozen bulls attached around it. Then they let them walk around in circle. What you have to do is apply pressure and probably pour water over it every now and then. And there you have a drilling machine!

I mean there's nothing saying the Egyptians couldnt get the same idea as the above. Maybe it'll work like arse at first, but a couple of hundred years down the line I'm sure its perfected.

[edit on 11-2-2008 by merka]

Originally posted by merka

Just thinking on random, imagine if they had some sort of "spear" of hard material set up on a big horizontal wheel with a dozen bulls attached around it. Then they let them walk around in circle. What you have to do is apply pressure and probably pour water over it every now and then. And there you have a drilling machine!

Possible yes, of course. But probably even you have to smirk at the idea of a dozen bulls walking around drilling.

This all sounds like "Well, because they couldnt have possibly had modern technology back then, we´ll have to find another explanation".