Forbidden Egyptology

reply to post by cormac mac airt


you gotta love how the ancient-civilzations-forum-police will make sure that every piece of alternative information is quickly stifled. get outta here guys.

Im not getting into another debate on this topic.

Skyfloating,

I'm not stifling anything. I merely asked a question in the first part of my last post and gave an observation in the last part. If human remains were found, that would help answer the question, but as far as I know there haven't been any. Pretty bad when you are intimidated by a question.

cormac

Originally posted by Skyfloating
There is somewhat of an archaeological cover-up though. I dont know if its intentional or just based on limited-perception as in "it cant be true so its not true".

Is there? To what purpose? And how do you figure? It really seems to me that it's the "alternative" fields that are interested in covering up the truth. Time and time again, these are the three things I see from "alternative historians":

1) The bible is absolutely true. Always.
2) White people lived everywhere and did everything.
3) Brown people can't stack two blocks together; everything rule #2 doesn't cover was either done by aliens or by an undiscovered and hyper-advanced white culture (Atlantis, Mu, take your pick)

Now not all - there are actually people who find actual evidence and use it to draw a hypothesis (that is, they use the scientific method). Most other such "historians" however, do they absolute opposite - they start with a hypothesis, and cherry-pick data that they think supports it.

Then comes hte obfuscation. Having picked the data that best fits their hypothesis, they change it to better-fit that hypothesis. This can be as simple as what you did - providing tiny pictures of something with no context or reference, only your own opinion, or it can be as elaborate as Zechariah Sitchin's total re-write of Sumerian mythology.

Mainstream scientists laugh at this because it runs directly counter to the scientific method. The only response the alternative historians have is to claim "witch hunt" and call the mainstream "brainwashed".

This is kind of like bringing a baseball bat and hockey puck to a basketball game and bitching at the other players for not knowing the rules.

You´ve been trying to suggest there is no such cover-up happening, havent you.

No, I've been saying that the idea that the Egyptians were incapable of building the monuments in Egypt is freaking stupid. Since you're asking though, my honest answer is, "I doubt it". "Mainstream" science has very little to gain from coverups - total exposure is what brings them fame, grants, and book deals, after all. They have lots to lose from coverups being exposed - enough that engaging in coverup would make no sense, especially given the competitive nature of the field - archeology is pretty self-policing. Exposing a colleague's mistake (or lie!) can not only knock their name out of the history books, but also grants YOU more credibility and access to those yummy yummy grants.

The trick is, mainstream historians and scientists follow a set standard of methodology, while the "alternative" historians seek to get the same benefits without any of the work or set standards.

edited out (bad behaviour)

[edit on 13-2-2008 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by cormac mac airt


Well, it's off-topic... But I wouldn't be at all surprised by the discovery of a Homo erectus civilization.
They were the most widespread of human species until sapiens, existing in Africa, the near east (and possibly southern Europe), south Asia, and the land that would later be Indonesia.
They had the longest existence of any human species. Erectus roamed the earth for nearly a million years. Compare this to our barely over a hundred thousand.
They weren't that far-removed from sapiens or neanderthals. We know they had fire and crafted tools.

A H. erectus civilization wouldn't be too surprising, and it WOULD be cool as hell, I think. But I'm definitely NOT going to go around saying there was such a thing or banking on the odds of it. Evidence is key, and all I ahve is conjecture and speculation.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Is there? To what purpose?

Control.

And how do you figure? It really seems to me that it's the "alternative" fields that are interested in covering up the truth. Time and time again, these are the three things I see from "alternative historians":

1) The bible is absolutely true. Always.
2) White people lived everywhere and did everything.
3) Brown people can't stack two blocks together; everything rule #2 doesn't cover was either done by aliens or by an undiscovered and hyper-advanced white culture (Atlantis, Mu, take your pick)

Well, thats not me. For me the bible is not true, and black peoples history has been supressed.

Then comes hte obfuscation. Having picked the data that best fits their hypothesis, they change it to better-fit that hypothesis. This can be as simple as what you did - providing tiny pictures of something with no context or reference, only your own opinion, or it can be as elaborate as Zechariah Sitchin's total re-write of Sumerian mythology.

This is a weakness of perception that happens on both sides of the fence.

No, I've been saying that the idea that the Egyptians were incapable of building the monuments in Egypt is freaking stupid.

To clarify: Im not "one of those". You´re talking to someone different here. No stereotyping. I am saying the ancients were more advanced than we believe, not less advanced.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Control to what purpose? Seriously, have you thought it through to the end? What you're talking about is a three hundred-year global conspiracy to "cover up" that ancient peoples were more advanced than previously thought, for the purpose of some vague "control." Over something. For some reason.

In this claim you're ignoring the fact that for decades now, mainstream science has been telling us that these folks WERE advanced. All that stuff me and Harte and others have posted about the engineering abilities of the Egyptians was brought forth, what, back in the sixties and seventies? Not a single bit of what we've said denies the advancement of Egyptians, or anyone else in the period.

We simply point out how the Egyptians used technology we know they had to build their stuff. Contrast this to the posters on this thread saying they had highly-advanced supertech gleaned from space travelers or a "forgotten civilization." It seems to me that saying the Egyptians couldn't possibly figure out to put a hole through a rock without spacemen holding their hands is a pretty derogatory statement about the abilities of those people.

If there's a coverup, the conspirators are doing one hell of a lousy job maintaining it.

[edit on 13-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

I dont have the time and desire to rummage through dozens of ATS-Threads where this issue has been adressed by me and others again and again. Before adressing this, how about adressing the original topics brought forward in the first few pages? There are at least 5 items in this thread that cannot be debunked. Lets see if you can find them. Thanks.

TRANSLATION: "I don't have the time to tell you I don't have an answer to who created the finds at Hueyatlaco, but I want YOU to answer my questions."

Not interested in your interpretation of history. Was just wondering if anyone knew of any remains that could help answer the question. Sorry if I went off-topic.

cormac

reply to post by cormac mac airt


Sorry for my bad behaviour. I should have said: "Dont have the time now, maybe later".

Or better: At current I have no idea what the evidence for humans hundreds of thousands of years ago are.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Control to what purpose? Seriously, have you thought it through to the end? What you're talking about is a three hundred-year global conspiracy to "cover up" that ancient peoples were more advanced than previously thought, for the purpose of some vague "control." Over something. For some reason.

Why do people come to a conspiracy-site to spend the larger amount of time saying "there is no conspiracy?" It never really made much sense to me.



In this claim you're ignoring the fact that for decades now, mainstream science has been telling us that these folks WERE advanced. All that stuff me and Harte and others have posted about the engineering abilities of the Egyptians was brought forth, what, back in the sixties and seventies? Not a single bit of what we've said denies the advancement of Egyptians, or anyone else in the period.

The involvement of "Gods" (extraterrestrials) is evident for some. Not for you obviously. This however, does not denigrate the advancement of humans, in my view.

Accepted.

Look Skyfloating, I bear you no ill-will. But from my perspective, much of what TheWalkingFox mentioned is true. All the alternate theories of ALIENS and HIGHLY ADVANCED civilizations in human history have done a great diservice to any search for the truth, alternate or orthodox. Alot of it falls into the category, EXTREME PARANOIA. I refuse to think that way. We are a remarkable species, capable of astounding things when we put our minds and hearts to it.

cormac

well cormac. re: olmecs, if your set in your taught belief, theres
nothing i can do. however, if your interested in the truth:

1. Ivan Van Sertima
2. Alexander von Wuthenau
3. Keith Jordan
4. Joan Covey
5. Beatrice Lumpkin
6. David J.M. Muffett
7. Leo Weiner
8. Harold Lawrence
9. Runoko Rashidi
10. Legrand Clegg II
11. Wayne B. Chandler

of course, if your camented in your beliefs, nothing can be done.

Originally posted by cormac mac airt
Accepted.

Look Skyfloating, I bear you no ill-will. But from my perspective, much of what TheWalkingFox mentioned is true. All the alternate theories of ALIENS and HIGHLY ADVANCED civilizations in human history have done a great diservice to any search for the truth, alternate or orthodox. Alot of it falls into the category, EXTREME PARANOIA. I refuse to think that way. We are a remarkable species, capable of astounding things when we put our minds and hearts to it.

cormac

The belief in extraterrestrials and a universe full of intelligent life since millions of years, does not automatically denigrate the position or intelligence of humans.

[edit on 13-2-2008 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by cormac mac airt


There are two possible explanations.

One, there were modern humans in Mexico 250,000 years ago.
or
Two, there was an error in the dating.

Given the lack of additional evidence backing #1, and the fact there have been plenty of cases leading to situations like #2, which is most likely?

The belief in extraterrestrials and a universe full of intelligent life since millions of years, does not automatically denigrate the position or intelligence of humans.

Generally I believe that to be true. However I believe we are in a minority. Many posters seem to think that we basically couldn't have done anything on our own, we HAD to have had help from ET's or that they somehow OWN us. That DOES denigrate the position or intelligence of humans.

On a side note: I do believe there may be other life in the universe. However, if they were really intelligent, they wouldn't NEED us for any reason.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
The belief in extraterrestrials and a universe full of intelligent life since millions of years, does not automatically denigrate the position or intelligence of humans.

[edit on 13-2-2008 by Skyfloating]

Until you start attributing human every advancement and innovation to alien welfare, that is. Belief in alien civilizations is one thing. Maintaining that they have an active hand in human life is quite another. And then when you start claiming that the lack of evidence is in itself evidence ("They're covering it up!"), you're edging into "kook" territory.

[edit on 13-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

To TheWalkingFox,

Actually the third possibility may apply. One of the other Homo lines. We are after all talking about stone age implements. Nothing I have read suggests any form of encampment or other construction. But there are problems with that too, I know.

cormac

I have read the story about the sphinx many places many places on the net attributed to many sources. Going back to when that white buffalo was born which was to mark the begining of the change we are now alleged to be going through.

Was not a large partion of the Valley of the Kings released to public domain from US military control for the last 40 50 years or so?

I have always believed from a child in learning of Egypt and the Mysteries that there is a lot more than what we have been told. If art is a precursor to life, as such inconceivable things as portrayed in the original Star Trek series (ie flash memory cards, flat screen display etc), I present to you Stargate, as in the original Movie and it's premise. Perhaps indeed technology beyond our preception was indeed found, not as elaborate or way beyond what is in that movie.

Dr. Hawass... I never liked the way he came across in any of the shows I have seen with him. He seems pushy and closed minded. bearing in mind what the OP said relating to this attitude may be a screen for his true motives makes sense to me and for some reason it fits well in my mind.

I have just gotten through the first page and look forward to reading the rest.

Originally posted by azzllin
Please forgive my intrusion but i have to share this, you will have to take my word for it as i have no evidence of the conversation, all i can do is reasure you that it did happen and this thread has amazed me even more concerning it.

In 2001 i lived in AZ near Winslow very close to the Navajo nation, i had a friend who took me to the second mesa which is home to the Hopi, we where there to see a katchina dance and celebration, at night time i sat with a few men who where talking about live the universe and everything, when an old man who i was told later was an elder shamen who lived in Hotvilla which is the Hopi seat, he told us a story which i cant repeat here.

However i can tell you that he said when the Sphinx is finally opened and the Magic is discovered, it will lead three world leaders to convince other world leaders to stop the fighting, he said this will be the first day of the new world, as i said i wont reveal everything he said that is not for me to do, but i did get the impression that many many people will die before hand.

As i said i have no proof but my word.

My wife is facinated with Ancient Egypt and i must admit i like to watch tv shows and read books ETC, My wife dispises Hawass for what she said he did to Dr Joanne Fletcher when she tried to convince the world that the Mummy of Nefertiti had been found, using talents of some of the gratest scientists in their field she had the Mummy X-rayed and scanned, she had a very convincing argument only to have Hawass completley put her down on TV.

My wife said he has no interest in revealing the truth he always tries to wriggle his way to all the great discoveries by controling everything.

To put at least another perspective to the main topic. Do I truss Hawass 100%. No, but then again I don't trust anyone in a high place that much. With him, I believe it's just a power trip. I do know that the amount of tourism, in and out of various pyramids and tombs is causing a large amount of damage to these ancient monuments. The amount of humidity incurred from hundreds of thousands of tourists in an out damages the structures, paintings and other artifacts. Sometimes irreparably. Looting and vandalism also still occur. Doesn't answer everything, but it is another answer to curtailing access to too many people.

cormac

I can't blame Hawass for being pushy and defensive, since the dude's been putting up with crystal-waving past-life regressionists calling him a stupid liar for how many decades? How often do you think the guy's inbox is filled with claims that the Egyptians were too dumb to know how to stack rocks into a pyramid?

Given the sort of crap the man no doubt puts up with, we're lucky he doesn't shoot people in the face!