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Scientific Evidence of Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence exists

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posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 04:02 AM
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I do not know as I would have to think about this for awhile to see if any type of teleportation could happen with that. I think the link given show what it is and was just a quick look-up link given. Perhaps being a longitudital wave something akin to what Telsa always wrote about may mean something but then I am not sure. Ah well you know the German scientists always come up with something different.

But more technical it probably would be this or similiar:

The real article a PDF file:
www.journaloftheoretics.com...

which is more of what it may be this Dr. is talking about. That is the hydrogen atom and something to do with the gravitational constant of the Universe, which is the background noise.
I know that SETI can not look at that frequency because it is all around and nothing would be picked up as a signal in that region of the frequency spectrum as a electromagnetic wave to pick up any alien signal. It blocks out any signal in that area of the frequency spectrum and so it can not be used. The Dr. is implying that he is using that to move information in a teleportation type of transfer as in quantum teleportation which would be like quantum entanglement in a sense but I do not think it is quite the same though.



[edit on 2/6/2008 by AmoebaSized]




posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by Buck Division
Perhaps a lot of interstellar communications is taking place in this universe, using some transmission method other than electromagnetic waves.

Perhaps there are forces that we haven't discovered yet, or dimensions that we can't access. Maybe there are interstellar messages encoded in lepton beams? In tachyons, via hyperspace?


That's what I've been contending all along! We spend billions of dollars trying to 'communicate' with ETs in the electro magnetic spectrum, but this mode of communication must have become obsolete millions of years ago. Is it any wonder why there hasn't been any 'contact' so far?

Remember the good old semaphore signals? How many even know that this was a means of communication not too long ago? How about the smoke signals from the American Indians? Can anyone figure out what they mean today?

Similarly, advanced civilizations would most probably be communicating by other means and concepts that we cannot even begin to comprehend with our four dimensional way of thinking. Perhaps it's all about making gravity and super gravity waves (that act as carrier waves) that bend the fabric of space-time in such a way so as to produce near instantaneous communication?

But even today, do we understand what the heck gravity is all about except that it's one of the four fundamental forces? It remains resistant to theoretical unification with the other three forces, since the quantum effects are far beyond the reach of contemporary experiments. Now I have no idea whether this German guy has reached this stage?

Cheers!



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by z-bar
That article is not "scientific evidence". It's not even science. In fact, you don't need more than high-school level physics to see immediately that


I totally agree z-bar, what utter nonesense! Unfortuantley some people must have skipt those elementary high school physics classes. For the love of God, where do they find these people...

[edit on 6-2-2008 by timelike]



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 06:17 AM
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Originally posted by Bashibozkedi
Not only was this more energy-efficient but communication is faster. Using standing waves information is transmitted instantaneously as there is no speed of propagation.


Basically this is the first flaw on which all the others are built. Gravity is not transmitted instantly. General relativity shows that gravitational waves travel at the speed of light. Hence gravitational effects travel at the speed of light. Let me give you an example. If the sun was to suddenly vanish from the solar system, we would not notice anything for 8 mins (since we are 8 light mins from the Sun) after that, the Gravity field would fall off (not instantly) and tend to zero, and we would fly off at a tangent to our orbit in accordance with Newton's laws.

Hence even if you could use gravity waves (which would require a VAST ENERGY SOURCE), the speed of transmission would be the same as in the case of EM waves.

More quackery I'm afraid...

[edit on 6-2-2008 by timelike]



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 06:25 AM
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Originally posted by mikesingh
Perhaps it's all about making gravity and super gravity waves (that act as carrier waves) that bend the fabric of space-time in such a way so as to produce near instantaneous communication?


Communication would be exactly the same spped since gravity waves travel at the speed of light! Look, even suppose what you say is true, that ETs are using vast gravity waves to communicate, we would see them! Apart from the gravity wave detectors there would be the bending of light and all sorts of general relativistic effects that would appear for no apparent reason. This has not been seen!


Originally posted by mikesingh
But even today, do we understand what the heck gravity is all about except that it's one of the four fundamental forces?

True, science dosen't have a complete undertsanding of gravity, but it doesn't know nothing either! it knows enough to put geostationary craft in orbit, send rockets to the planets, and explain the perhelion precession of Mercury's orbit etc. I think if in order to have aliens visit us, we have to hide their abilities in the shadowy ends of theoretical physics, then something is wrong with the initial conjecture.


Originally posted by mikesingh
Now I have no idea whether this German guy has reached this stage?

Indeed, until he produces a complete mathematical treatment, it is just another theory!



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 06:58 AM
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Originally posted by timelike
Indeed, until he produces a complete mathematical treatment, it is just another theory!

Using "everyday language", it's a theory. In the scientific sense (and that's what counts, if the thread title says "Scientific evidence ...") it's only speculation and conjecture, and far from a theory:

en.wikipedia.org...

Sorry for the nitpicking
.



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by Nohup
Gravity waves as yet undetected.
Gravity waves would require mass. No such thing yet as a mechanism to instantaneously create or remove "phantom mass."
If so, phantom mass would affect everything around it, like real mass. Not aware of any recent planet-sized masses being created near or on Earth.
Gravity incredibly weak. Waves likely unsuitable for communication.
Standing waves do just that. Stand. Usually within a containment structure like a tube (church organ). No transmission of information.

Am I missing anything?


You are completely missing the point and confusing your self!!! In
Theoryyou only(a big only) need to create a device that can detect extremely small amounts of differentiating gravity, when this is done you could possibly use EM to change the surrounding gravity millions of times a second. The idea would be like the way a modem works etc...
I hope this explains a little...



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 08:22 AM
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Hi everyone-

It's also known as "The Theory of Global Scaling".

Here's a simple overview of it from 2004....

www.zpenergy.com...

I remember hearing about it a few years back, then nothing..... till now.



[edit on 6-2-2008 by Fugue] Missed a damn comma....

[edit on 6-2-2008 by Fugue]



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 08:34 AM
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Here are some links to gravitation communication research. Some of it commerical, some of it peer reviewed, some of it speculative. There's a small noise ratio in the speculative, but not too bad.

ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel1/45/7535/00310939.pdf

Mod Edit - Removed broken link

www.gravwave.com/docs/AIP;%20HFGW%20Telecommunications.pdf

www.gravwave.com...

www.bigear.org...

www.rexresearch.com...

prola.aps.org...

www.physicsforums.com...

www.angelfire.com...

www.qualight.com...

home.gwi.net...

ieeexplore.ieee.org...



A GREAT discussion here about the concept:

www.halfbakery.com...


edit: removed http from a couple of links so that they would be accessible to copy/paste


[edit on 6-2-2008 by Jadette]



[Mod Edit - Remove Boken link]

[edit on 6/2/2008 by Sauron]



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 11:26 AM
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Best option for transmitting data instantly over any distance with current technology is quantum entanglement of photons. Unfortunately the photons have to come from the same source before they are split.

Gravity could be used I guess, but on a subatomic level. If you could stabalise a microscopic black hole or pinch space it may be possible to fire the data directly through it. This idea has been played with by Arthur C. Clarke in "The Light of Other Days".



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by timelike
Basically this is the first flaw on which all the others are built. Gravity is not transmitted instantly. General relativity shows that gravitational waves travel at the speed of light. Hence gravitational effects travel at the speed of light.


That's just simply not true. I don't know how else to say it. Read Einstein again. He assumed the speed of Gravity to be instantaneous in his equations. He even noted that he did so.

I agree that gravity isn't transmitted instantly, but the speed has been observed at MUCH faster than light.

Your above example works with what we can SEE (light) not what we would observe, AND you are assuming that the Sun is the SOURCE of Gravity, something Einstein was way too smart to do LOL. Simply because the Sun has more mass than any other object in our solar system doesn't mean that it's the source of gravity in our solar system. It only means that gravity has the strongest interaction with the Sun, because it has the most mass...

If you are still having trouble with this concept, read Lorentz, then read Van Flandern. You can get all the relevent data and math here:
www.metaresearch.org...

Honestly, for someone calling people quacks, you've got some research to do yourself on this subject. I suppose you 'believe' gravity is a pulling force? Try proving it with physics. LOL



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 12:40 PM
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After a search around the internet for more information on 'standing gravitational waves/devices' I discovered this patent application (US Patent 6784591) for a device used for the "generation, refraction and detection of high-frequency gravitational waves that can be modulated and utilized for communications".

This patent was granted on August 31, 2004. The inventors name is Robert M. L. Baker, Jr.

My degree is in the communications field and would love to get a look at this device.


[edit on 6-2-2008 by mightymouth]



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 12:55 PM
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Here is the website where there is a description of what it is and what is going on:

www.globalscalingapplications.com...

www.globalscalingapplications.com...

Some of the links do not work there (if those links did work before) and it seems to be somewhat dead as an idea right now, or esle it is being done more in Russia than in the USA and finding out anything about it may not be allowed to happen.



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 01:11 PM
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The analogies here suck (for lack of better word)

Where does one get the force to push said marble or said stick ? There is nothing scientific stated at all .
I could just as well postulate that we could use the sun as a super satellite where by i send beams of energy at the sun which in turn deflects the energy with its radiation field sending the information as far as the light travels . Essentially using the uv radiation as a "conduit"

Sounds about as scientific as those articles.



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 01:36 PM
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These theories are great.

I found some more info here.

Neighbours in Logarithmic Space
Systems in linear space that lie very remote from each other can be very close to each other within the logarithmic space of scales. Our sun and Alpha Centauri are 4 light-years away from each other in linear space, while in the logarithmic space of scales they are immediate neighbours. Once this is understood it is not too difficult to create the physical conditions that will make communication in logarithmic space possible. Two electrons on the same quantum level that may be thousands of kilometres apart, are found in practically one and the same point within the logarithmic space of scales. The fact explains not just a whole range of quantum mechanical phenomena, but constitutes the basis for a totally new telecommunications technology which was publicly demonstrated for the first time on 27th October 2001 in Bad Tölz, Germany.G-com technology is still in its infancy (a first language modulation succeeded in July of 2001), but in two important aspects it is already far superior to any other conventional means of information transmission. Firstly, a modulated standing gravitational wave can be demodulated in any location on Earth, on planet Mars, or even outside the solar system at the very same moment in time, thus making distances and transmission times meaningless. Secondly, no waves are generated nor transmitted which is why G-com technology does not require aerials, satellites, amplifiers or converters. This launches a new era of telecommunications – free from electric smog.

www.zpenergy.com...

The naysayers are funny but I will just remind you of a quote from Alfred Russel Wallace who helped Darwin with natural selection and he was a spiritualist.

I thus learnt my first great lesson in the inquiry into these obscure fields of knowledge, never to accept the disbelief of men or their accusations of imposture or of imbecility, as of any weight when opposed to the repeated observation of facts by other men, admittedly sane and honest. The whole history of science shows us that whenever the educated and scientific men of any age have denied the facts of other investigators on a priori grounds of absurdity or impossibility, the deniers have always been wrong.



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by mightymouth
After a search around the internet for more information on 'standing gravitational waves/devices' I discovered this patent application (US Patent 6784591) for a device used for the "generation, refraction and detection of high-frequency gravitational waves that can be modulated and utilized for communications".

This patent was granted on August 31, 2004. The inventors name is Robert M. L. Baker, Jr.

My degree is in the communications field and would love to get a look at this device.


[edit on 6-2-2008 by mightymouth]


Heh, no one reads links.


Earlier I posted a link to a company, GravWave.

www.gravwave.com


Principal Investigator and Project Manager
Robert M. L. Baker Jr., was born in Los Angeles on September 1, 1930.
He has been married to his wife Bonnie since 1964 and has three grown
children. Baker earned a bachelor's degree in Physics at UCLA with highest
honors (summa cum laude – first in his class) was elected to Phi Beta Kappa,
earned a master's degree in Physics and a Ph.D. in Engineering at UCLA-- the
Ph.D. degree with a specialization in aerospace was, according to UCLA officials,
the first of its kind to be granted in the United States. Dr. Baker was on the
faculty of the Department of Astronomy at UCLA from 1959 to 1963 and the
Department of Engineering and Applied Science at UCLA from 1963 to 1971 as a
Lecturer and Assistant Professor. During that time he was a Lecturer at the
United States Air Force Academy. While on a two-year tour of active duty in the
Air Force he worked on a variety of classified aerospace projects. He was the
head of the Lockheed’s Astrodynamics Research Center in Bel Air, California
and in 1964 joined Computer Sciences Corporation as the Associate Manager for
Mathematical Analysis. In 1980 he was elected President of West Coast
University, an accredited university for the adult learner now operating under the
auspices of American Career College in Los Angeles.


There's more about him, here:

www.gravwave.com...

AND here:


www.drrobertbaker.com...

Oh, and check out, a layman's explanation of communication with gravity waves.

www.drrobertbaker.com./docs/Layperson's%20Description%20of%20HFGW.pdf

There's more here:


www.drrobertbaker.com./pc.htm

edit: darn it, LINKS never work.

[edit on 6-2-2008 by Jadette]



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 03:07 PM
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You guys should check out 'entanglement' and the 'spooky' effect.

essentially you have two particles - one spins clockwise - the other counterclockwise - when you change the spin of one - the other particle - it's 'partner' changes it's spin as well - instantaneously - even if you put each particle on opposite sides of the universe.

Einstein called it the 'spooky effect' i think - it's instant - ftl - and is used in quantum teleportation.

You guys should check out quantum computing as well. The advent and maturity of such technology could answer many of these questions.

Something I've always wondered myself is if you could build a SETI type device that uses quantum cryptography to search for other 'observers'.

QCrypto is an insanely secure form of communication using quantum mechanics/superpositions - two people can communicate securely and if someone eavesdrops the information is destroyed upon observation of it -

If instead of scanning space for radio you transmit a qcrypto signal - the signal would detect if someone was observing it rather than looking for transmitted info...I would doubt seti will produce as govt no doubt has stuff in space to block unwanted sigs to earth.



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by Bashibozkedi
 


This sounds like a Star Trek SUBSPACE transmitter.
Gravity waves are better than electromagnetic waves.
This is really old and boring technology to the aliens.
I guess i will be able to watch Direct TV in real time on the moon!



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by timelike

Originally posted by z-bar
That article is not "scientific evidence". It's not even science. In fact, you don't need more than high-school level physics to see immediately that


I totally agree z-bar, what utter nonesense! Unfortuantley some people must have skipt those elementary high school physics classes. For the love of God, where do they find these people...

[edit on 6-2-2008 by timelike]


Truth or not, this type of rhetoric reeks of primitive thinking patterns. Anytime someone says "It's not even science! THis is stupid!" They are simply showing how ignorant *THEY* are.



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by damagemouse
You guys should check out 'entanglement' and the 'spooky' effect.

essentially you have two particles - one spins clockwise - the other counterclockwise - when you change the spin of one - the other particle - it's 'partner' changes it's spin as well - instantaneously - even if you put each particle on opposite sides of the universe.

Einstein called it the 'spooky effect' i think - it's instant - ftl - and is used in quantum teleportation.


No Einstein didn't call it that... he called it

Superluminal Quantum Connectedness

Which means that somehow, faster than the speed of light, energy is connected.



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