Scientific Evidence of Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence exists

Scientific evidence of Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence exists

In 2001 I attended a lecture in Germany by Dr Hartmut Muller who had invented a new form of telecommunication based on standing gravitational
waves rather then electro-magnetic waves.

Not only was this more energy-efficient but communication is faster. Using standing waves information is transmitted instantaneously as there is no speed of propagation.

To use a simple analogy, using a standing wave is like having a vast stick
stretching across the universe,as you push one end the other end moves at the same time.With a propagating wave it is as if the universe is a large pond and ones drops a pebble in it, the ripples from the pebble slowly spread out through space. Using a propagating electro-magnetic wave a message sent to another galaxy would take tens of 1000s of years to get
there and the same time for the reply. This effectively rules out electromagnetic communication as a viable means of sending messages over vast distances. When Dr Muller and colleagues tested their new system of communication they were surprised to find that the system was already in use,but NOT BY ANYONE ON EARTH.

It would appear that there are at least two civilisations out there talking to each other by means of standing gravitational waves.This link will tell you more about the communication system ssl.kundenserver.de...

This link tells you more about what was found www.graviflight.de...

I am afraid both pages are in German but one could use a translation engine on them.

If these findings and the conclusions based on them are correct. It would suggest that SETI is irrelevant in its present form as any advanced civilisation would have stopped using electro-magnetic communication a long time ago.

To use the above links: Click on the First one and when the page appears
type "66 Milliwatt" in the box marked "Suchbegriff" then click on the article
"Mit 66 Milliwatt nach Australien"when it appears.

To use the second one: Click on the link and scroll through the list of options until you get to "Kommunikation mit Uberlichtgeschwindigkeit"
click on this and the article on ETI communication appears.

Here is the link to the article on Extra-terrestrial Communication (Link No 2) :
www.graviflight.de...

This is the link to an article on communicating above the speed of light with standing gravitational
Waves : ssl.kundenserver.de...

reply to post by Bashibozkedi


I don't quite know what to say. To my knowledge, when you move a stick, it doesn't all move at the same time. Waves propagate across it at less than the speed of light (at the speed of electromagnetic propagation between the atoms of the stick) and the rest of the stick moves along that wavefront.

Mathematics pretty much says that a standing wave that never modulates in time cannot carry information to a point receiver. The wave would have to change form (just like the stick moving represents a pulse) from the perspective of the receiver.

If this guy is proposing a form of instantaneously propagating wave (I know Lear claims an instantaneous gravity wave), then he should be able to produce an experiment that other people can use to confirm his results. I would want him to publish the math and an experiment we can reproduce. He can even publish it here if no one else will accept the paper. I'm sure some of us could muddle through it with time.

For example, if he has a receiver, we should be able to build one and get the exact same reception he is getting, at the same time, with synchronized clocks. Then, I would like to repeat the experiment with one person on the ISS and the other person on earth. But I am getting way ahead of the evidence here.

I want to see evidence!

I'll try to run a translator on the pages (my German is terrible.) But I'm suspicious at this point.

EDIT: I ran the translator and read the article on the receiver. There are no details given. This was written in 2002. Has the author published, either in a peer-reviewed journal, or on his own (Internet) a technical paper that articulates how this works and how to replicate his claims?

[edit on 5-2-2008 by Ectoterrestrial]

That article is not "scientific evidence". It's not even science. In fact, you don't need more than high-school level physics to see immediately that whoever wrote the article doesn't have a clue what they're talking about.

Anyway, I followed the links, and searched a few references for Dr. Hartmut Müller, the apparent originator of all that nonsense. Found lots of evidence for a (presumably) once smart mind gone totally bananas. Sad, actually .

Of course, it's about par for ATS standards. So all those who are convinced that "conventional" science is all bunk can add another "misunderstood hero-genius" to their list.

Thank you for your replies. I did say IF these findings and conclusion are correct in my original post.
I had never met anyone who had heard of this work outside Germany and wanted to bounce these ideas
off someone from the English speaking world, preferably with a better understanding of the science involved than
myself.

You may well be right about an instantaneously propagated gravitational wave.My stick analogy is based on my
own understanding of the German articles. My German is not perfect either and I may have misunderstood some details.

I would be happy to hear from anyone else who can shed light on this. Meantime I will see if I can find anything more
on the German internet.

reply to post by Bashibozkedi



Gravity waves are a plausible theory, i've heard about this before while reading about string theory.
At the end of the day no one has yet made an experiment to test if the effect of gravity is instant. If it is!!! it's a fact advanced civilisations will use it to communicate over vast distances.

Gravity waves as yet undetected.
Gravity waves would require mass. No such thing yet as a mechanism to instantaneously create or remove "phantom mass."
If so, phantom mass would affect everything around it, like real mass. Not aware of any recent planet-sized masses being created near or on Earth.
Gravity incredibly weak. Waves likely unsuitable for communication.
Standing waves do just that. Stand. Usually within a containment structure like a tube (church organ). No transmission of information.

Am I missing anything?

Originally posted by Ectoterrestrial
reply to post by Bashibozkedi

 

I don't quite know what to say. To my knowledge, when you move a stick, it doesn't all move at the same time. Waves propagate across it at less than the speed of light (at the speed of electromagnetic propagation between the atoms of the stick) and the rest of the stick moves along that wavefront.

Ok let’s say I have a stick that reaches from my back yard to one inch above the surface of the moon. Google tells me it takes 1.2 seconds for light to travel from the earth to the moon. Let’s say I can apply just enough energy to move the stick 12 inches in the direction of the moon in .5 seconds. Not enough energy to penetrate the surface of the moon but only enough to move the stick. On Earth my end of the stick has traveled 12 inches. 1.2 seconds later what happens to the end of the stick that was 1 inch above the surface of the moon?

Can any of you "sciency-type-persons" shed some light on this?
217.160.88.14... 3&kategorie=ir_en_news_content

Quantum-teleportation Wolfratshausen - Krems


On the 18th December 2003 in the laboratory of the TIM-lab research centre at the Donau-Universität Krems succeeded in a public experiment concerning an entirely new procedure of wireless data transfer.



Dr. Hartmut Müller, head of the Institute for Space-Energy-Research in Wolfratshausen (Germany), demonstrated that data transfer is possible between two notebooks one in Germany and the other in Krems without the use of conventional transmission methods (like internet, telephone, WLAN, etc.) and based purely on software without the use of additional devices.



In his twenty year long research work Dr.Müller developed the method of "Global-Scaling Quantum Teleportation"(GSQT) that permits the transmission of data via the cosmic background noise contained in the vacuum of all matter.

Against the conception of classic physics, natural oscillations of vacuum do not have a chaotic spectrum but a harmonious one. That is why one can modulate these oscillations of vacuum and utilize them for quantum-teleportation.



This revolutionary procedure has an enormous utilisation potential:

If one succeeds in raising the data transfer rate, currently at 16 bit/sec, the timely stability of the connection, and increases the locating precision, then it were possible to exchange information everywhere, any time, absolutely hack-proof and without the use of a cable, sender or a provider.

The research centre TIM-Lab will cooperate with the Institute for Space-Energy-Research Ltd. i.m. Leonard Euler, in order to propel the research of this futuristic technology.

Originally posted by tommyknockers
Ok let’s say I have a stick that reaches from my back yard to one inch above the surface of the moon.

Another analogy of this kind is the old "tube full of marbles." If you have a tube full of marbles that reaches goes from the Earth to the Moon, and you shoved a marble in one end, the reasonable assumption would be that a marble would pop out the other end pretty much instantaneously.

The only problem with the analogy is just where does this new marble come from? Where do you get it? Does it just magically appear out of nowhere? The reality of the matter is that all of the tubes are all full of marbles all the time, and there's no way to add or subtract from the tubes without the spontaneous creation of a marble.

A similar problem arises with the stick. There is no "gravity stick" that magically stops a few inches above the surface of anything. It goes all the way. So there's no real way to move such a thing one way or another.

Now, maybe there's some way to use the gravity wave as a carrier wave. I have no idea how one might get it to modulate, though, without somehow rapidly increasing and decreasing the mass of an object. Pushing some of it in and out of virtuality? Yeah, good luck with that.

Gravity waves as communications medium seems dodgy by definition, in that the reciever of the wave would physically move. This quantum teleportation would do the trick, but exploitation of quantum entanglement seems a fair bit of time away from being practical. In the spirit of fairness though, I'd like information on this Dr. Hartmut Müller, specifically, has he been published in any sort of peer reviewed journal.

Originally posted by SKUNK2
reply to post by Bashibozkedi

 

Gravity waves are a plausible theory, i've heard about this before while reading about string theory.
At the end of the day no one has yet made an experiment to test if the effect of gravity is instant. If it is!!! it's a fact advanced civilisations will use it to communicate over vast distances.

Actually there is plenty of experimental evidence of Gravito-pulse generation

www.americanantigravity.com...

Originally posted by Nohup
The only problem with the analogy is just where does this new marble come from? Where do you get it? Does it just magically appear out of nowhere?

It’s not a magic marble. The tube is full, and now I have one more marble in my pocket. I then push it in the earth side of the tube.
Is there a 1.2 second delay before the one on the moon side pops or is it instant?
If there is a delay than what is going on in the tube?
Does the volume of all the marbles in the tube compress to make room for the extra marble while the motion propagates?

Originally posted by Nohup
Gravity waves would require mass. No such thing yet as a mechanism to instantaneously create or remove "phantom mass."
If so, phantom mass would affect everything around it, like real mass.

Now I don't understand all physics concepts but isn't there one about a dark matter or something?

Some strange odd heavy thing, undetected that could explain the size and weight of the universe... that this dark matter would exist in abundance, maybe more then matter we know and deal with?

sorry if I'm digressing here, i'm just trying to understand how it all fits.


Peace

reply to post by Sator


Dark Matter:
Opps, all of these numbers are wrong. How are we going to explain that?
Just make something up to fill in the gaps.

Gravity waves or not, the OP postulates a very interesting idea.

Perhaps a lot of interstellar communications is taking place in this universe, using some transmission method other than electromagnetic waves.

Perhaps there are forces that we haven't discovered yet, or dimensions that we can't access. Maybe there are interstellar messages encoded in lepton beams? In tachyons, via hyperspace?

EDIT: Maybe aliens are constantly broadcasting particles to us, which would would permit "action at a distance", according to quantum entanglement theory described here

#

I always loved the book "Contact" by Carl Sagan.

SPOILER: there were secretly encoded messages being transmitted in irrational numbers. No reason to think that isn't true, other than pure speculation. Discovering something like this would definitely change our perspective, don't you know?

[edit on 5-2-2008 by Buck Division]

Here is the english translated link to the relevant article:
Translated
Enjoy.
Interesting Indeed.

Originally posted by SKUNK2
At the end of the day no one has yet made an experiment to test if the effect of gravity is instant. If it is!!! it's a fact advanced civilisations will use it to communicate over vast distances.

While the problems illustrated by Nohup in this thread are very valid concerning an actual physical system for manipulating said gravity 'waves' (if that is indeed the propagation style of gravity), the theory is quite intriguing!

Skunk2, Tom Van Flandern has done work on the speed of Gravity here:
www.metaresearch.org...

There are several papers on the subject, and lots of math. The link above is the main page of his site, you can find most of these papers linked at the main page.

Van Flandern concludes that the speed of gravity is not infinite (as Einstein assumed in both SR and GR) but it's much faster than light.

Also, just to mention, Einstein only said that physical objects couldn't move faster than light, due to the increase of mass at higher velocities. Current (accepted) human experiments have already sent information faster than light speed.

One more note, for clarity, Tommyknockers, I totally get your analogy, and you're right, your question has not been answered. What Nohup is saying though, is that the marble in your pocket must have a physical equivalent for the comparison to apply to actually sending information in this manner. That marble would have to be information, specifically formatted to be introduced into the 'tube of marbles'='standing wave', and at this point, we're not even sure what comprises the standing wave, let alone how to duplicate a part of it and introduce it to the existing wave.

Great analogy though!

And GREAT THREAD!!!

Here is a link to an abstract (in English) of a paper by Dr Hartmut Muller presented at a conference at the Donau University in Krems on "Synchronicity in Random Signals" describing a method of communication using Quantum Teleportation.
Not a peer -reviewed journal but we are getting warmer.

www.donau-uni.ac.at...

Thank you all for your interest.