Barack Obama wants to delay mission to the Moon by at least 5 years!!!

reply to post by buddhasystem


Pardon, but you both, Bigbert81 and Buddahsystem, even Ufo Reality, seem to be missing the central issue. Obama allegedly (as per the OP's phone call) wants to redirect funds from the space program to his education program. Hillary allegedly wants to direct the masses to take care of themselves by, erm, literally taking care of themselves as if they constitute a single organism. Frankly, I don't see anything wrong with Obama's idea or Hillary's idea. What's mixed up in here is the idea of the union versus capitalism. Capitalists are against labor unions and see them as socialist conceptions. Yet many of those very same capitalists say that they would not lay down their weapons, and that they would fight the government to protect their right to bear arms and/or against tyranny. That they would fight to preserve the US Constitution and the union, i.e. The United States of America. Thinking and beliefs along these lines are rather inconsistent. For example, "the market will sort things out" along with "Gee, I hope the Pres and the Fed institutes a stimulus package that will help the market out. Every bank on the block, including ours, is taking a hammering."

That Hillary and Obama's issues focus on the betterment of everybody, and thus and increased quality of life of everybody, yet at the same time are viewed as opposing viewpoints is indicative of the battle between socialist and capitalist ideologies. There are people here at ATS who are capitalists but which are against "the military industrial complex", and there are some who think that President Eisenhower created a myth. Regardless, the bottom line is that we are all in it together. But debating on these issues when they are really reflect the same issue, i.e. an endeavor to increase the quality of life for all US citizens, is what is at the heart of driving this country insane. Folks say that they don't want to pay for their neighbor's healthcare, but they overlook the fact that the neighbor would be paying for his or her neighbor's healthcare as well. They also overlook the fact that a healthier community means a more active and capable community. Folks say that they are against the redirecting funds from space exploration to education, but they overlook the fact that a better educated community potentially means an increased potential to increase the pace of programs designed to get man back into space. Five years delay is not a long time if it means that the result of the delay actually comes to mean an increased interest among young people in mathematics and science, and a subsequent rise in the national averages of mathematics and science scores. That would portend positively for the future of manned space missions.

At any rate, Obama's or Hillary's programs would favor well on the future of our country. The idea that an increasingly uneducated population is good for the nation is just as absurd that and increasingly ailing population is good for the nation. Something needs to be done to rectify both issues so that everyone benefits. Capitalism should not be pitted against policies and ideologies that were responsible for allowing it to thrive. Right now in the US most people work in the service industry. They are trained to do a specific task, and that's it. Minimal to no education required. Many do not have healthcare, few demographics are left untouched. It's like the US has two cancers and there are two sides that want to do something other than eradicating either cancer entirely. Somehow it's acceptable that one side loses when BOTH issues need to be addressed and rectified. We know the corporations DO NOT want to be held responsible for it. So, what's left? US. We the People, by the People, for the People. The programs that Hillary and Obama want are NEEDED. Who can stand and say that billions upon billions of dollars have not been wasted and lost on a war in Iraq that nobody wanted? Apparently 2.3 trillion dollars -- i.e. 2.3 TRILLION DOLLARS has disappeared down a black hole, and no one is being held accountable. Now that last fact is the end all and be all of "New Deals", it can be considered as the best deal ever transacted for some seriously criminal and lucky folks. Imagine, if you can, if all of that money had went toward education, universal healthcare, and space exploration.

Anyway, we need all three. We need an educated population. We need a healthy population. We need to get women and men back into space. Stop demonizing each other's position. Just do what you think is best. One way or another these three problems have to be solved in order for us to increase our chances of survival elsewhere other than this rock. It should be easy to see that any group's chance of survival in outer space will depend greatly on how well that group behaves as a single organism.

I think some of you missed part of the point I was trying to make. Destiny is not about men or mice, and to think so small is to forget that human nature almost always has it's way.

We will go to space or die. It's that simple. Man has, as a species, always gone over the horizon. Can one president change that wired in need to explore, to search for the unknown?

It doesn't matter a tinker's damn what a president or a king or a cleric decides, short of removing the technology level to achieve manned space exploration, the most that can happen is to slow it down.

Since man learned that the lights in the sky were not painted on a roof, he has dreamed of going to them. Man expands into any place that he finds, creating a niche for himself. He lives in the frozen arctic and the Great Outback, not because they are wonderful pieces of real estate, but because they can be claimed as his own, and man is by nature driven to seek new territory. The stars too will be new territory.

If Obama, or Hillary, or whoever, tries to halt space exploration, it will be no more than a speed bump on the highway to the sky. And there will always be those timid souls that want to stay and improve home, create safety, and nest on a familiar spot. But they will have no more effect on the natural drive of some portion of men to seek the path less traveled than whatever leader that comes along.

Part of what makes the UFO controversy have such staying power in our collective mind is that underlying awareness that there really is an "out there" that we as a species are on the verge of grasping. Like a nagging ache, we cannot rid our soul of the knowledge that space is for traveling through. That there are other places besides this one Earth.

Five years or fifty, the die of the human heart is cast, the wanderlust of our nomadic childhood cannot be denied by reason or law. We have sought since days of old to touch the face of creation, and we will never cease as long as we exist.

Here's a thought:

There is no strife, no prejudice, no national conflict in outer space as yet. Its hazards are hostile to us all. Its conquest deserves the best of all mankind, and its opportunity for peaceful cooperation many never come again. But why, some say, the moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas?

We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.

www.historyplace.com...

Space will not yield to uneducated and sick people.

Originally posted by Dagar


Let's see... you're categorizing my post as 'crap', calling me a clown, and basically telling me to shut up... did I leave anything out?

hmm... I'm sure someone around here said something about 'courtesy is mandatory' , or something?

Anyway, my post was slightly tongue in cheek, but the basic premise is (IMO) sound.

If the USA cut it's military spending, even just by a fraction, it could probably finance education, healthcare, rebuilding infrastructure, and space exploration.... and STILL have the most powerful military on the planet.

Just my opinion mind you... and not meant to cause offence to anyone.

Be at peace

There are more simple solutions to these "problems" then just money.

For one,if all countries around the world just got rid of there weapons..then nobody would be worried about another country and what they are gonna do. Secondly if we actually had acesss to REAL KNOWLEDGE and not the b.s fed to our kids in school ..then education wouldnt be a problem..third...if the government didnt make so many drugs with horrible side effects, and used natural cures and stopped with operations that cost you literally an arm and a leg..then health care wouldnt be a problem...and if we just all sat and watched the sky at night...then maybe space would come to us! Maybe the e.t's would say "hey, look they want us to come out and play"


Take a look at jesus!...he said drop your weapons..because those who live by the sword will die by the sword...He healed people freely...no medication or money involed...and he ascended to heaven with no space shuttle...the point is IF WE WERE ALL CONNECTED TO GOD...we wouldnt need ANY material things like money to substitute the things we already have and know.

But...as you can see and you should already know...the DEVIL runs the show for now...and THATS WHY we are having these problems now...but SOON and i mean SOON ..god will put and end to this crap...and make things RIGHT.

reply to post by Areal51


Thank you! "I believe this nation should commit itself to..", I remember hearing it on the radio. "This" is the USA I fondly remember and would hope to be resurgent. Fair, tough, caring... a bit less overtly empirical.

All the early NASA newsreels we watched at school on a media called film through project Mercury offered the US found explorative discoveries to all man kind without qualification. Used to be a time when there were a kernel of Canadians at NASA... all the A V Roe displaced, Hodge was only one of many. That changed... a lot has changed.

And still Soyuz flies...

Vic

[edit on 6-2-2008 by V Kaminski]

Originally posted by Areal51
Space will not yield to uneducated and sick people.

Brilliant!

reply to post by NGC2736


You claim that even if Obama or Hillary were to "halt" space exploration, it wouldn't matter because it would be just a "speed bump on the highway to the sky". So, wouldn't a five year delay to the moon be nothing more than a "speed bump on the highway to the sky"? Wouldn't it make more sense to improve our education system for our future NASA scientists at the cost of a five year delay?

reply to post by ufo reality


I'm going to have to agree with Obama campaign on this one. If he's legitimately wanting to postpone space exploration endeavors as to redirect that funding into our educational institutions; that's a damn good idea.

We know we're not going to stop blowing people in the Middle East up anytime soon, no matter what Obama has to say about it, and we need money to fund some of our social programs. If it has to come from the space exploration program, which really doesn't have currently widespread public benefit - then so be it.

Kid's need education, and our educational infrastructure is falling apart in K-12 and in the Higher Education sector. They've been underfunded for thirty years, and they need help.

The sun isn't going to explode anytime soon. We need to take care of our social problems before we worry about our space-tech ones.

Since no one appears to be listening...

Thread closed for a few. Have I got your attention yet?

Let me state this one more time:

Obama believes we should continue developing the next generation of space vehicles, and complete the international space station. While Obama would delay plans to return to moon and push on to mars, Obama would continue unmanned missions, and use NASA to monitor the forces and effects of climate change, support scientific research, and maintain surveillance to strengthen national security. Obama also believes we need to keep weapons out of space.

That is considerably different than what his original statement sounded like: rather than an additional five-year post-shuttle gap, this approach would appear to permit the continued development of a new launch vehicle and spacecraft (be it Ares/Orion or some alternative), but put on hold anything that would be used for lunar missions and beyond. That puts his approach closer to what Hillary Clinton proposed in October, although she did not endorse any specific delay in human lunar missions.

This is the third time I've stated this. The fact that many of you are continuing to post responses that just assume Obama wants to cancel the space program in favor of education only underscore the fact that you not only didn't bother doing so much as a single Google-search on the issue, you haven't bothered to read any of the response threads.

This is not denying ignorance, it's borderline deliberate blindness.

Further: TheSonOfMan, Dagar, Bigbert, and anyone else turning this into a political derailment...Take it to PTS.

Now I'm going to freeze this thread for a bit in the interests of not only getting the thread back on topic, also getting an uninvolved mod to make a judgment call on the issue of whether or not this should be considered a hoax, disinfo, or whatnot.

Ok, this thread has been moved to a more appropriate Forum and re-opened.

Let's keep the personal attacks out of the discussion, please.



[edit on 6-2-2008 by Jbird]

reply to post by ufo reality


I think America needs to sort out it problems on this planet before it creates problems on other planets. So instead of putting a man on the moon he wishes to educate people. Put a man on the moon, or teach hundreds of thousands. It seems a rather silly thing to argue about.

Dorian Gray

Choose one:

Princess Lay-ya, Emperor Palpitine or Lando Calrissian.

Sometimes, you just gotta lose-

This election, the dealer is sliding the cards out with his third finger.