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Tamil historical records officially documents Lemuria’s existence

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posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 04:52 PM
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In January 2005, doctors and professors from University of Bergen, Norway; Department of Religious Studies, Arizona State University; and the Dean of the faculty of advanced studies, University of Jaffna; put forth their findings regarding past civilizations from the Indian Ocean region.

Based on Tamil history and The Sangam Literature, which is over 2,000 years old, they suggest that the bulk of the Indian Ocean used to feature a large land mass on which past civilizations once thrived.

These facts, which they claim are established by archeological excavations, refer to a ‘Kumari Kandam’, which they say was Lemuria itself.

They say many islands in the Pacific and Indian Oceans are remnants of this past continent that in ancient time covered the whole area of today's ocean.


From ‘Catastrophes of the past: Poetic exaggeration or scientific facts?’ article
The continent of Lemuria is referred as "Kumari Kandam" in ancient Tamil literature. Tamil is one of the world's classical languages. Tamil has continuous historical records for more than 2000 years and Tamil language was recognized as a classical language in India (beside the other being Sanscrit). Tamil does not belong to the Indo-European language family.

"One can imagine the strength and magnitude of the Tidal wave required to devour a mountainous area that had existed in the ancient coastal belt of the Tamil world," says professor Shanmugathas.


Full article: www.tamilnet.com...


What do we think of this?

I wonder what relationship, if any, this continent could have had with the Indus Valley civilizations of the past?

My two cents, is this poetic exaggeration as the heading suggests? Who really knows. I think not personally.

I feel it is yet another potentially reliable source that supports the theory of Lemuria/Mu and Atlantis and that of past civilizations existing before official history begins.




posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 05:20 PM
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I'm guessing it's poetic exaggeration. Not to knock the Tamil people, but they (as well as a lot of other Indian people) have a tendency to exaggerate things.

A more plausible explanation for Lemuria would be the Sunda Shelf. During the last ice age, before the ice sheets melted and the sea level rose, Sumatra, Borneo, Java and Peninsular Malaysia were all connected. And since it was the ice age, the region would have been ideal for humans, since it was (and still is) tropical and balmy.



Source

Check that one out. It doesn't seem too far-fetched and doesn't contradict current scientific knowledge.



posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 06:25 PM
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I was interested enough in your op to do a little looking around. I have to say i'd be more willing to at least accept that some of the evidence warrants further research if it wasn't for the blatant nationalistic and racial propaganda.

Kumari Kandam


In modern Dravidian ethnic nationalist literature, Kumari Kandam or "Lemuria" was the "cradle of civilization", the origin of human languages in general and the Tamil language in particular. These ideas gained notability in Tamil academic literature over the first decades of the 20th century, and were popularized by the Tanittamil Iyakkam, notably by self-taught Dravidologist Devaneya Pavanar, who held that all languages on earth were merely corrupted Tamil dialects.


And this on some of the literary works which may not be quite as historically accurate as was suggested.


Silappatikaram


Silappatikaram has been dated to belong to the fifth century CE, although the author might have built upon a pre-existing folklore to spin this tale. The story involves the three Tamil kingdoms of the ancient era, the Chola, the Pandya and the Chera. Silappatikaram has many references to historical events and personalities, although it has not been accepted as a reliable source of history by many historians because of the inclusion of many exaggerated events and achievements to the ancient Tamil kings.


Manimekalai

And Sangams seem to be related to academies? not ages, so i have to seriously doubt the timeline in the link from your OP.

Sangam


Sangams were Tamil academies, which according to Tamil legends, enabled poets and authors to gather periodically to publish their work.[1]. The earliest extant works of Tamil date back to the period between 200 BCE and 200 CE.


I think its interesting enough to look into further but my BS radar usually kicks in when any group of people claim that they are a seperate species to the rest of humanity and invented civilization.

Here's some other stuff to consider.

Lemuria (continent)


The Lemuria theory disappeared completely from conventional scientific consideration after the theories of plate tectonics and continental drift were accepted by the larger scientific community.
In 1999, drilling by the JOIDES Resolution research vessel in the Indian Ocean discovered evidence [1] that a large island, the Kerguelen Plateau, was submerged about 20 million years ago by rising sea levels. Samples showed pollen and fragments of wood in a 90 million-year-old sediment. This might lead one to expect similarity of dinosaur fossil evidence and will help to understand the breakup of the Indian and Australian land masses; it does not support the concept of Lemuria as a land bridge for mammals.


And the site you linked in your OP Tamilnet is a pro Tamil Tiger website. The bold highlight is mine.

Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam


The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE, Tamil: தமிழீழ விடுதலைப் புலிகள்), commonly known as the Tamil Tigers, is a militant Tamil nationalist organization that has waged a violent secessionist campaign against the Sri Lankan government since the 1970s in order to create a separate Tamil state in the north and east of Sri Lanka (formerly Ceylon). The LTTE is currently proscribed as a terrorist organisation by 32 countries (see list). It is headed by its founder, Velupillai Prabhakaran.


Continue to research but please bear in mind that the source you quoted leave's much to be desired.


mojo.



posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by Beachcoma
 


Interesting map and link. I have heard of Sundaland in the past but had never actually seen that map. It makes sense.

If one considers the Tamil’s claim concerning Kumari Kandam, Sundaland and the more traditional belief that the numerous island chains in the Pacific were once a large continent, then you really could begin to get a picture of just how much land could have once existed in the Southern Hemisphere’s oceans.


reply to post by Mojo4sale
 


Thanks for the information Mojo.

I noticed the connection to the Tamil Tigers (LTTE) but didn’t think too much of it. Information is information, the LTTE being listed as a terrorist organization doesn’t necessarily void their history.

I also get suspicious when claims of inventing civilizations are made, but I always figure that if it was Australia who could make such a claim wouldn’t we just see it as part of our history? I mean, it is self-serving but it could still be accurate.

And for the record, when the ‘scientific community’ makes a decision to disregard theories on past civilizations, I tend not to pay too much attention. There are undoubtedly agendas there – I wont let them stand in the way of further research, knowledge and likely truth.



posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by srsen
 


No probs, but the reality is that groups both scholarly(scientific) and alternative(pseudo) make claims sometimes based more on promotion of their ancestry or ego rather than for altruistic reasons.

If you could find other supporting sources with independent analysis then the case becomes more solid. I guess the point i wanted to make is check your sources carefully and where there is some doubt as to a possible agenda try to find corroborating evidence from other non related sources.
The only other links i could find all linked back to the Tamilnet site.

Like i said its interesting enough for me to continue looking into it.


Btw at one time Australia was connected to New Guinea and possible a lot closer to the indonesian islands as well. Up around the gulf of carpentaria i think. I cant find the link i had, lost in the mess somewhere. So i do believe it is possible that there are lost landmasses or area's of coastline that are submerged that contain the remains of ancient cultures.

Cool post anyway.

Cheers mojo.



posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 08:02 PM
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Lost civilizations in the Indian/Pacific Ocean areas I can see possible.

Problem is, as I understand it, Tamil is a Dravidian people/language group descended from proto-Dravidians which are believed to have come from the Indus Valley area since 3300 BC. Other than stories from other peoples native to the area, what would they know about a lost "continent" from around 10,000 BC.

Something else to take into account. If what they were talking about was Sundaland, being a landbridge, it actually doesn't qualify as a "continent" as such. Still, any finds there would be very interesting.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 01:25 AM
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reply to post by srsen
 

How can this suggest the existance of Lemuria? I thought it was supposed to be between India and Africa


If you can just pick any random place for a "lost continent", its kind of useless to give it specific names. You could have said "Atlantis" and it'd be just as proper.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 01:45 AM
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Merka,

It has ALWAYS been said that Lemuria/Mu, if a single continent, existed in either the Indian or Pacific Ocean or maybe even both.

There has been more ruins found in the Pacific which suggest that Lemuria/Mu was likely there, however, seeing as none of us were around to see it, then it could just have easily been in the Indian.

For the record, I personally believe that Lemuria/Mu referred to a series of land masses which made up the region/empire of Lemuria.

It could still be referred to as a single country but just made up of several land masses.

I believe this can also be applied to Atlantis - that it was a series of islands/land masses which encompassed the Atlantean empire.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by cormac mac airt
 


I think that might be exactly what happened. Records passed down from generation to generation, history kept alive the only way they knew how.

Out of curiosity, what do we think of verbal history? Reliable or not?

Personally, i think, while not scientifically admissible, it should not be ignored. Some of the world's greatest historys now live on only through the verbal medium.

(sorry for the double post)



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 02:37 AM
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What would be the point of the Tamil people, decended from peoples of the Indus Valley, knowing about a civilization that was destroyed by the rising, post glacial, waters in the Indian Ocean? Especially since the event would have happened 6000+ years before them. Those people wouldn't have been their ancestors. Todays East Indians came into the area AFTER the Dravidians from everything I've read, so whatever natives there were wouldn't have been the ancestors of the Indians either.

Personally, I wouldn't push verbal history very far at all. Pretty much like telling 100 people a secret, each telling the next. End result is nowhere near what was originally told, and may be embellished upon considerably.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 03:19 AM
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Originally posted by srsen
Merka,

It has ALWAYS been said that Lemuria/Mu, if a single continent, existed in either the Indian or Pacific Ocean or maybe even both.

Say what?! Lemuria and Mu isnt even the same thing! Lemuria is clearly not in the Pacific since its meant to explain the link between Madagaskar and India. Checking up on "Kumari Kandam", there isnt even any doubt: Its meant to be in the Indian ocean connecting Australia, India and Madagaskar.

If everything is the same we might as well speculate that the entire ocean floor was once land with a fabulous civilization. Its easier.

[edit on 5-2-2008 by merka]



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 04:33 PM
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It depends what you believe though Merka.

Lemuria is the name given to the Lost civilization in the Pacific (though as i said, some researchers place it in the Indian) and Mu is simply an older name applied to the same lost civilization.

If you believe that the name Lemuria didn't exist till 1864 then i can see why you would say they are different. I still maintain that the 1864 explanation is too convenient and I just don’t buy it.

Not trying to be a wise guy, but if I create a theory which says that the Philippines were named that because it helped guys named Philip cross from island to island, then will people in 150 years believe it?

No, they wont – why? Because there are already established histories which talk about the origin of the Philippines. Same with Lemuria/Mu , there IS a history of Lemuria/Mu but you have to go outside the classroom textbooks to find it. That’s my two cents anyway



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 03:40 AM
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reply to post by srsen
 

But where on Earth did you get the idea that Lemuria is in the Pacific??? Its not some people that place it in the Indian ocean: its most of them.

In your original post in this thread you talk about Kumari Kandam.

Kumari Kandam on Wiki, situated in the Indian ocean

Granted one should not always trust Wiki, are you saying its wrong? In the link you referenced to, a similar map is displayed. You even confirmed it in your own post.

What I believe about Lemuria as an idea of a lost continent "somewhere" in the Pacific, Indian or Atlantic ocean for that matter, is irrelevant. We KNOW that Lemuria is the name given to a supposed land bridge between Madagaskar and India (and maybe Australia).

Are we calling two different "lost civilizations" (technically Lemuria was never about a civilization) Lemuria? Possible. But then we need to seperate what exactly we mean. If you have given what you think is a lost civilization in the Pacific the name Lemuria, so be it. I will still call it Mu.

[edit on 6-2-2008 by merka]



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 05:02 PM
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Hey Merka,

The exact location of Lemuria is unknown.

It is the belief of mainstream science that Lemuria is what you describe it to be - a land bridge connecting Madagascar and India. This is the official story created 150 odd years ago and is likely referring to Kumari Kandam.

But, as I have said in the past and will maintain, this is NOT proof that the original concept of Lemuria/Mu is false.

I am basically saying that Lemuria and Mu are one in the same, and it seems to have been that way until the term was hijacked in 1864 to describe the land bridge theory.

I see no reason to buy that Lemuria was nothing until 1864.

As also mentioned previously, the Tuatha De Danaan expressly state that their people originated from four sunken islands in the west (from a European perspective), one of those islands was called Murias, as in L'Murias or Lemuria. This, in my opinion, is the first record of Lemuria.

Mu is the more authentic term and perhaps the one I will use from hence forth to clarify what I am referring to.

And for the record, the location of Mu is certainly up for debate. I would place it in the Pacific is forced to pick a location, specifically as a land mass now responsible for the thousands of islands located there.

We must remember places such as Kumari Kandam, Sundaland and more also existed at some point in the Pacific/Indian ocean regions and certainly contribute towards the confusion in this area.

And I never doubted Kumari Kandam’s location – why did you think that? Perhaps I hadn’t clarified myself at some point. But I certainly say that it was located in the Indian Ocean and that the professors and doctors in my original link referred to it as Lemuria.

For the record, whenever someone uses the term Lemuria in the wrong context it’s a bit of a grain of salt thing. Bottom line we are talking lost civilizations which aren’t Atlantis or proposed to be in locations attributed to Atlantis.


So i will now use the terms Mu, Kumari Kandam and Sundaland. This should clarify matters.



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 08:00 PM
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It is the belief of mainstream science that Lemuria is what you describe it to be - a land bridge connecting Madagascar and India. This is the official story created 150 odd years ago and is likely referring to Kumari Kandam.


It ISN'T the belief of mainstream science. It was the idea of a man who knew nothing of plate tectonics and continental drift. This is not an OFFICIAL story.




I am basically saying that Lemuria and Mu are one in the same, and it seems to have been that way until the term was hijacked in 1864 to describe the land bridge theory.


Mu, even as a Mayan mistranslation, could be more readily equated with Atlantis than Lemuria, wrong ocean. What documents, translated by qualified linguists, show Lemuria or Mu?



As also mentioned previously, the Tuatha De Danaan expressly state that their people originated from four sunken islands in the west (from a European perspective), one of those islands was called Murias, as in L'Murias or Lemuria. This, in my opinion, is the first record of Lemuria.


The Treasures of the Tuatha De Danann were believed to have been housed in and received from four NORTHERN cities. The cities of Falias, Gorias, Murias and Finias. How do you get WESTERN ISLANDS from NORTHERN CITIES? In what Irish document is any of what you are saying EXPRESSLY STATED? Also, if the Tuatha De Danann came from the west, that would be the Atlantic Ocean, not the Pacific.



I see no reason to buy that Lemuria was nothing until 1864.


I see no evidence that it WAS something before 1864.

I could just about agree with you if it weren't for the fictional place names.



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by cormac mac airt
It ISN'T the belief of mainstream science. It was the idea of a man who knew nothing of plate tectonics and continental drift. This is not an OFFICIAL story.


ok fair enough then, so why does everyone bring this point up so much to disprove Lemuria? Is it simply because it is believed that this guy invented the term?


Originally posted by cormac mac airt
Mu, even as a Mayan mistranslation, could be more readily equated with Atlantis than Lemuria, wrong ocean. What documents, translated by qualified linguists, show Lemuria or Mu?


The only Mu-related story i know that points to the Atlantic involves the Tuatha De Danaan and their four islands, more specifically Murias.

Even though there is no definitive wording which states that Murias was in the west. It simply grouped with the Tuatha De's four major island homes and we assume its in the west coz of the Tuatha De's origins in the west.


Which brings me to my other point.

Falias, Gorias, Murias and Finias were in the West, i am confused how we could have such differing information on this. It's kinda weird.

That the Tuatha De's origins were from sunken islands in the west is stated in the Lebar Gabala (Book of Invasions). This is the main source, however the are also references to such in:

Book of the Dun Cow
Book of Leinster
Book of Ballymote
Book of Munster
Book of Lecan
Book of Lismore
Book of Fermoy
Book of Hy Maine (also known as the Book of the O'Kelleys)
Book of Deer
Book of MacRegol
Book of Durrow
Book of Lindisfarne
Cronicon Sectorum
Annals of Tighernach
Annals of Bally MacManus
Annals of Boyle
Annals of Connaught
Annals of Ulster
Annals of Innisfallen
Book of Kells
The Mabinogion
Scotichronicon
Black Book of Caermarthen
Red Book of Hergest
Book of Aneurin
Triads of Taliesin
Annals of Clonmacnoise
Annals of the Four Masters



Originally posted by cormac mac airt
I see no evidence that it WAS something before 1864.


But it was. SO many myths and legends refer to it - could they all be making it up together?

So ok, if we stop referring to it as Lemuria and simply state that there were advanced civilizations in the past, lets say roughly 10,000 to 20,000 years ago, which many will refer to as Lemuria or Mu but which are not Atlantis, which were destroyed during an Age of Cataclysm and whose existence has since been denied, would we be in agreeance?



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 07:02 PM
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ok fair enough then, so why does everyone bring this point up so much to disprove Lemuria? Is it simply because it is believed that this guy invented the term?


Maybe because using the name of a non-existant continent to explain the migration of Lemurs as the name for a "possible" island/landbridge/continent to explain the migration of humans is disingenuous in the least and an outright lie at the worst.




Falias, Gorias, Murias and Finias were in the West, i am confused how we could have such differing information on this. It's kinda weird.


Need to stop listening to Tsarion and the like. Read this, its from Geffrey Keatings, The History of Ireland.




As regards the Tuatha Dé Danann, when they saw the people of Syria prevailing over the people of the country, they, in one band, depart from that territory, for fear of them, and they made no stay till they came to the country of Lochlonn, i.e. Fionn-Lochlonn, viz. the people of Norway, where they got welcome from the people of the country for the extent of their science and of their varied arts. It is Nuadha Airgeadlámh son of Euchtach, son of Edarlámh of the posterity of Neimheadh who was chief over them at that time. Indeed, they obtained four cities, so as to be teaching the young folk of that country in them. The names of the cities here: Fáilias Gorias, Finias, and Murias. The Tuatha Dé Danann place four sages in those cities to teach the sciences and the varied arts they had to the youths of the country; Semias in Murias, and Arias in Finias, and Eurus in Gorias, and Morias in Fáilias. After being a while of their time in these cities, they proceed to the north of Scotland, so that they were seven years at Dobhar and at Iardobhar. They had four noble jewels, which they brought from those cities, namely, a stone of virtue from Fáilias; it is it that is called 'Lia Fáil'; and it is it that used to roar under each king of Ireland on his being chosen by them up to the time of Conchubhar (as we mentioned before), and it is to that stone is called in Latin 'Saxum fatale.'


Now where do you see any indication the four cities/islands were to the West of Ireland?



But it was. SO many myths and legends refer to it - could they all be making it up together?


No, so many myths and legends tell of possible places that existed but that were destroyed by flooding and such. You can't lump all these stories together with a fictional name and say they were all talking about the same thing.




So ok, if we stop referring to it as Lemuria and simply state that there were advanced civilizations in the past, lets say roughly 10,000 to 20,000 years ago, which many will refer to as Lemuria or Mu but which are not Atlantis, which were destroyed during an Age of Cataclysm and whose existence has since been denied, would we be in agreeance?


More adequately:

Stop referring to it as Lemuria and simply state that there were possibly civilizations in the past 10,000+ years which were destroyed by flooding and other natural disasters. Then we would be closer to agreeing. Still, with that, we have to find the evidence. Until then, it's all speculation.



posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 01:30 AM
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iam happy tat people talk sumtin abt tamil ....one of the oldest language in the world....
vazhga tamil..



posted on Aug, 10 2008 @ 01:30 AM
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It would be amazing if this were true however all we have is mention of Kumari Kandam which they have assumed to be Lemuria. We do not know for certain that is actually IS Lemuria.

I would love to see them prove this. It would be an amazing revolation and would possible lead the way to a more serious investigation of that region.



posted on Aug, 10 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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Since Lemuria, as noted earlier, is just a made up land bridge to try and explain fossils in places far away from one another. It was a theory to try and explain this oddity. Plate tectonics did away with that theory. Its seem a bit odd to keep acting like it was an ancient continent!



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