Opponents Of National Health Care Explain Why

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by FredT
Take Sick Childrens Hospital in Toronto.

That's a horrible name for a hospital. Imagine the impression it makes on a young patient walking through the door.

We call it "Sick Kids" and we are immensely proud of it as an institution. It is also world-renowned, btw.

Originally posted by jsobecky
There will always be those who choose not to work, and to live off the public teat. Maybe some of Rudy's workfare ideas that he used in NYC could be applied to them. God knows there is plenty of work to be done, even if they can only do 15 hours of menial work per week.

I would love to add 15 hours of menial work per week, besides my 70 hrs as a selfemployed designer/craftsman for decent health coverage.

The HMO, health care for profit industry in my opinion is designed to provide profits to the share holders, not quality or affordable healthcare.
I'm not so naive as to assume any thing will change, given the enormous
lobbying effort by the HMOs. And why are prescriptions double the cost in the US, compared to Canada and Mexico? And the chumps pay it without a complaint. When you have a dumbed down nation of sheep, you might as well fleece them, right.

I just would like for the small business man to get a little break. I can't afford to pay for health insurance for my employees, what with 3.00 gal gas and raw material costs rising everyday, studio rents 30% increase per year. Foreign imports flooding the country. I don't know how much longer I can stay in business. "Buy American" falls on deaf ears.

I'm voting for the candidate that I feel will impact me in a positive way economically, be they gop, dem, green, either thru fairer health care or
tax breaks. I want the same kind of health care my elected officials get; after all I'm paying for it.
Most of the small businessmen in my position, and there are lots of them, by and large feel the same way as I.

It's the economy STUPID!!


[edit on 11-2-2008 by whaaa]

[edit on 11-2-2008 by whaaa]

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Johnny I seldom agree with you but on the Subject of the childrens hospital in Toronto it is world class

"Undeserving," lazy people are not the only sources of medicare and medicaid fraud. Some doctors, clinics and even some hospitals routinely overcharge the government for services they haven't performed. If we are going to reform these two government programs, then the health care providers should be subjected to scrutiny too.

Those of us who are arguing for universal health care are assuming we'll have to help pay for it, too--at least I am. It's not a question of "what can I get?"(I'm comfortable now) but one of what should be considered the right of every citizen in a just society?

I think it's sad we're the only civilized country without this. I mean come on do we really want to share something in common with Saudi Arabia, Kenya, and Timbuktu? Kind of sad Cuba has it better then the US when it comes to Health Care.

Yeah,

This is sad...

Castro has built excellent health facilities for the use of foreigners, who pay with hard currency for those services.

But Cubans are not even allowed to visit those facilities. Cubans who require medical attention must go to other hospitals, that lack the most minimum requirements needed to take care of their patients.

In addition, most of these facilities are filthy and patients have to bring their own towels, bed sheets, pillows, or they would have to lay down on dirty bare mattresses stained with blood and other body fluids.

I asked the guide what Cubans did if they had a cold. The guide said that a Cuban would go to the doctor — a visit free of charge — who would write a prescription for aspirin. However, there would be no way to fill the prescription. We visited a pharmacy later in the trip. Behind the counter five well-dressed Cuban women waited to serve, but the shelves were empty. The only items in sight were the monthly ration of sanitary napkins, 10 permitted per Cuban woman per month.

It was like being in a dream where two different things can happen at the same time. We were in a two-tier system: one for the privileged (tourists, for example) and the other for those who lived and worked in socialist Cuba.

Cuban Truth

What is sad, is that people continue to espouse a lie all to prove a point.

It is also very sad that those same lies will reduce our health care to this..

Cuban Hospital Kitchen



Here a Cuban man takes his Grandfather to the "hospital" in their form of Ambulance...



How about this FULLY stocked Pharmacy?



Want to go to this "EMERGENCY ROOM"?



This is where to left's lies are taking us. SO yes it is sad, sad that you want to destroy us and place us in the same situation as the Cubans who are living with these conditions.

Semper

reply to post by semperfortis


Great pictures, semper. Very eye-opening, and revealing. How can people still hold Cuba up as a successful model of socialized medicine?

HHH, you seem to wave the banner a lot for Cuba's health system. What do you think of these pictures?

Let me guess...it starts with a p and ends with an a.....

reply to post by semperfortis


How do you feel about the billions of dollars given to multi-national corporations that are shipping American jobs oversea's to cheaper (read: slave) labour?

Where is the outcry from those on the right about the billions of dollars going to companies that boast record profits almost every year?

Why does socialized healthcare have such a stigma of being too costly or inadequate, when billions of dollars are being poured into Exxon, AT&T, and IBM with little to no benefit for the citizens of the US?

Those billions after all, are YOUR tax dollars hard at work. Wouldnt you rather see those tax dollars be used to help your fellow Americans, rather than help line the pockets of Multi-National corporations and they're share holders?

Originally posted by semperfortis
Castro has built excellent health facilities for the use of foreigners, who pay with hard currency for those services.

But Cubans are not even allowed to visit those facilities.

If...if...that can be taken at face value, how much of it might be attributable to that shameful American embargo?

And why...because Castro's a commie? How's that Chinese boycott going?

And that Vietmanese Boycott...

Also, I didn't say the care was better, I said they had UHC, which is better then what America has, which is no UHC. Kind of like the "mistake" your same kind made with What's his name, Moore something and his movie. "He said Cuba has better UHC then the US! We have better doctors and care so that's a lie!" Uh, Cuba does have better UHC then America because America doesn't have UHC. He didn't say they had better care just better UHC. "Shut up!"

Also, again, Exxon makes 40.8 billions dollars profit. This is money that goes into their bank account. What is the Republican(Note I say Republican not conservative) solution? Give them billions of tax payer dollars.

Oh hey Semp, remember everytime you get a raise you're actually raising everyone else's taxes as that is where your paycheck comes from Mr. Socialist.

Originally posted by HHH Is King
Oh hey Semp, remember everytime you get a raise you're actually raising everyone else's taxes as that is where your paycheck comes from Mr. Socialist.

I thought Semper got his cheque from a private corp. and not from the tax base? From my understanding (and its derived only from this thread) Semper works on a campus of a school or something similar (again, correct me if im wrong) and his paycheque comes more from them than it does from the general tax base...

reply to post by HHH Is King

Originally posted by HHH Is King
Also, I didn't say the care was better, I said they had UHC, which is better then what America has, which is no UHC.

This is what you said:

"Kind of sad Cuba has it better then the US when it comes to Health Care. "

So they are better just because they call their abject failure of a health system "UHC"?

Originally posted by HHH Is King
Kind of like the "mistake" your same kind made with What's his name, Moore something and his movie.

Whoa.


Let's stop right there.

Define what you mean by "your same kind".

Would someone please answer my question....

Why should my tax dollars pay for the health insurance of Federal elected officials when my taxdollars pay their salary. Isn't this a form of socialized health care and preferential treatment. Why am I as a citizen and a taxpayer not afforded the same health care the politicians receive.
Even some appointed officials receive state sponsored health care that I as a taxpayer, pay for.

It's like in "Animal Farm".... all animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.

Hypocritical dirtbags!!! You that support this system!

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
If...if...that can be taken at face value, how much of it might be attributable to that shameful American embargo?

Yes, but a large chunk of the world DOES trade with Castro including Canada (Netherlands, Canada, China, Russia, Spain, Venezuela, Italy, Mexico) etc. Cuba has no problems finding trading partners so thats a bit of a red herring eh?

Originally posted by HHH Is King
Also, I didn't say the care was better, I said they had UHC, which is better then what America has, which is no UHC. Kind of like the "mistake" your same kind made with What's his name,

Sweet your ignorance of the American health care system is pretty apparent. You do realize that someone with NO insurance can walk into an emergency room anywhere in the US and recieve the EXACT same treatment that I would WITH the best insurance in the world.

So your saying that no matter how crappy your UHC system is (like those pictures in Cuba) its still better than the system I just described above?

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
If...if...that can be taken at face value, how much of it might be attributable to that shameful American embargo?

Yes, but a large chunk of the world DOES trade with Castro including Canada (Netherlands, Canada, China, Russia, Spain, Venezuela, Italy, Mexico) etc. Cuba has no problems finding trading partners so thats a bit of a red herring eh?

Nope...the US actively works to strangle the country. It attempts to intimidate countries that do trade with them. Canadian subsidiaries of American companies have been charged for dealing with Cuba. Simple American indifference would be a blessing.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by JohnnyCanuck]

How do you feel about the billions of dollars given to multi-national corporations that are shipping American jobs oversea's to cheaper (read: slave) labour?

What does that possibly have to do with the topic?

Oh hey Semp, remember everytime you get a raise you're actually raising everyone else's taxes as that is where your paycheck comes from Mr. Socialist.

How many times must I prove that a lie?

Would you mind abiding by the T&C and NOT call me names? My name is NOT Mr. Socialist.

I thought Semper got his cheque from a private corp. and not from the tax base? From my understanding (and its derived only from this thread) Semper works on a campus of a school or something similar (again, correct me if im wrong) and his paycheque comes more from them than it does from the general tax base...

I actually work for a Public Service Authority, but exactly the same concept. I am not paid by tax monies.

Again, we post facts and pictures and are met with supposition, hyperbole and even lies....

whaaa,

I can't answer that. I also have no idea why they are vested after one term or why nothing in life is fair. I'm just saying our system works and I get offended when it is suggested I should pay for some dead beat that wont work. Don't mind paying for those that can't, like I already do, just those that wont.

Semper

How is Semper's employer releveant to anything in this thread? Other than the obvious strawman that is

Because his entire life is based off of socialism yet he hates socialism.

Anyways, as said, Vuba has a better UHC then America, which is easy cause America doesn't have UHC. Well, Republican Senators do, and Iraqi Citizens do, and Mexican Citizens will if John McCain gets his way. And he wonders why Conservatives hate him.

reply to post by semperfortis


To be honest, I saw this as one of the few opportunities that I would get to ask a conservative, that seems rather opposed to welfare (or moreso, the abuse that welfare suffers), about their feelings on this issue.

I hear many conservatives hoop and haw about the extensive funds wasted on welfare and healthcare, but not a peep about the billions wasted on corporate welfare, handouts, bailouts, tax loopholes, etc etc etc...

How does it relate? If one form of welfare is bad, so must the other be aswell, right? Both systems suffer extreme abuse,Why do you not march against corporate welfare, which wastes far more of your tax dollars (on equally undeserving/lazy people), instead of rallying against American citizens that may need it?


To HHH is King:

Honestly, I can see why Semper is frustrated with you. You seem to be ignoring everything he says....