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Muslim husbands with more than one wife to get extra benefits as ministers recognise polygamy

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posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 04:30 PM
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Just wanted to add how impressed I am with everyone involved in this thread. I think this is the only time I've witnessed an Islam-centred discussion on the internet survive so well and remain so dignified. Name another place where this thread wouldn't have been locked and closed within the first few pages


In large part this is due to Beachcoma, who does a credit to his/religion and ATS. For the first time ever, I don't really feel the need to add anything to the debate.




posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by Buck Division
Kangjia deserves some applause. He jumped into a hostile thread, debated half a dozen members over a period of several hours, including answering various questions put to him.

Kangjia -- now banned, less than 24 hours later.

Wow. I guess I read that one so so so wrong. (That doesn't serve my credibility much, does it now? EDIT: Maybe I need to go to forum moderator school for a while.
)

I guess everyone has a breaking point. We found Kangjia's, pretty sure.

[edit on 5-2-2008 by Buck Division]



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by Buck Division
 


I'm pretty sure that the initial animosity came from kangija, with his "riots 1000 times owrse than paris if we don't get our own way"

That said, I'm sorry he got banned, in the same way I'm sorry to see ANY member banned.

But at the end of the day, he became abusive and tried to take on the mods.

You could say he bit off more than he could chew in that regard.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 05:22 PM
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Wow! 1 night away and I missed all this?! Yeah my blood was boiling too after reading how Kangija was "trying" to represent us Muslims.




Kanjiga:
I am not here to gain credit. I have had enough of Islam bashing and since I have joined I have crippled many with my response.They all hate it but I love it when the temper heats up and they cant swear as the rules and regulations dont allow that.

Anyone who starts a Islam bashing thread also knows he will have to face me.


For one thing as a Muslim you should not WANT to have tempers rise... its unislamic! So you are wrong here again. Also, I didnt see Islam bashing on here, people just want to know why certain things are done in Islam.. whether right or wrong, and I believe they have a right to know, in a nice way.

Let me just make a few points:

1. Saudi Arabia, though its the Islamic holy site, DOES NOT represent Shariah Law the way its supposed to be done, thought they will disagree. I think a better example of Shariah Law was early on in the Ottoman Empire, before it was corrupted. You had Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Agnostic, and Athiests living in Harmony with no fighting. Everyone was happy. Also, there is no way there can be Shariah law because there are too many sects in Islam these days. In order to have True Shariah law, there has to be only 1 leader..... and unfortunatley these days, there are too many people who want that leadership. Even the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) said that there will come a time when Islam will have 73 sects, all (but one, the majority sect) which will be in the Hellfire. Here is the exact Hadith:

"Abu Amir al-Hawdhani said, "Mu'awiyah ibn Abi Sufyan (may Allah be pleased with him) stood among us and said, 'Beware! The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) stood among us and said': 'Beware! The People of the Book before (you) were split up into 72 sects, and this community will be split up into 73, seventy-two of them will go to Hell and one of them will go to Paradise, and it is the majority group (Jama'ah).'"

So even 1400 years ago the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) knew that there will be people who claim to be muslims who will deviate from what it is meant to be who will corrupt the religion. And we can see how a small handful are destroying the view of Islam with their extreme actions and intrepretations of what they claim to be Islam. Thank God the Majority of us are NOT like that.

2. Kanjiga- You need to understand that you are attacking things that Governments did and your'e putting them on the citizens as if they told their governments to do these things. You cannot do that! Do you think the majority of Americans agree with the current Government? You are responding in anger, which you are not allowed to do Islamically. You need to stop being so defensive when you disagree with something and understand why someone is saying what they're saying. They're not making up stuff, they just want to understand. Be courteous, as your'e charged to be Islamically.

dangit i gotta run... i will finish posting a little later.

Peace..



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 05:27 PM
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posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
I've been married twice, not at the same time. WHY would someone want the headaches of more than 1 woman at a time?


But look at the advantages... Babysitting arrangements are easier, chores are done quicker and hopefully you receive more luv...



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


You know what, I knew that he was heading that path, that is why I stay away from this thread in the last few pages.

I guess he could not hold himself.



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 03:01 AM
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Originally posted by ZyonCryme


2. Kanjiga- You need to understand that you are attacking things that Governments did and your'e putting them on the citizens as if they told their governments to do these things. You cannot do that! Do you think the majority of Americans agree with the current Government? You are responding in anger, which you are not allowed to do Islamically. You need to stop being so defensive when you disagree with something and understand why someone is saying what they're saying. They're not making up stuff, they just want to understand. Be courteous, as your'e charged to be Islamically.

Peace..


Well said


Kinda a shame he got banned, although I'm sure he deserved it. (I didn't see the posts that got removed) It did make for interesting conversation, it's not very often you get to hear from people with his point of view.



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by intrepid
I've been married twice, not at the same time. WHY would someone want the headaches of more than 1 woman at a time?


But look at the advantages... Babysitting arrangements are easier, chores are done quicker and hopefully you receive more luv...

There's a problem here though. It has been observed that women who live and/or work closely together end up with their menstrual cycles in synch. A "jungle" reaction to competition! So you might have many wives but they would all be Mrs. Ultrasensitive in unison
hells bells



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 03:32 AM
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let's just say that fomenting hate is always the first step towards war.

governments are gambling warmongers trying to use the combined (joint scum??) scum of the world to pit West vs. East while playing both sides like suckers.

the true enemy are therefore these governments on BOTH sides of the imaginary fence, because it's them who are setting the stage. they are the problem, the rest is just symptoms.



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 04:28 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by budski
 


You know what, I knew that he was heading that path, that is why I stay away from this thread in the last few pages.

I guess he could not hold himself.

That's banned along with alcohol isn't it?



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by spitefulgod
 


aye, love the way he singles out the "black" boys as well, what a tool.

Mod Edit: Removed "mannered post".



[edit on 6-2-2008 by Gemwolf]



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 04:53 AM
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on this subject, anyone moving to the west should "get up to speed" with the culture there, and it should not be expected that we should regress several hundred years (whether from newcomers or by some of the host liberal bores) to accomodate them



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 05:55 AM
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reply to post by blueorder
 


That's the whole point - the government policy of forced multi-culturalism through affirmative action means that recent newcomers to these shores are pandered to rather than helped to integrate.

I'm not saying that people should abandon their culture, but rather that they should try to understand the culture that they have chosen to live in and integrate to the extent that it doesn't conflict with their religious beliefs.

To do otherwise runs the risk of generations of kangija's - when someone constantly gives and then stops giving, there is a risk that some people will think something has been taken away.



[edit on 6/2/2008 by budski]



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 06:05 AM
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Originally posted by budski

That's the whole point - the government policy of forced multi-culturalism through affirmative action means that recent newcomers to these shores are pandered to rather than helped to integrate.


Yep I totally agree "multi culturalism" was a disgraceful extremist policy pursued by many in the west- unfortunately this policy was lept upon by many in positions of power who bought into the post 1960s university standard line that western history/culture was to be ashamed of- this policy gave an outlet to their self loathing, and increased alienation and made newcomers "lesser" than host communities.

Shame also on those within the minority communities who jumped on the multi cultural bandwagon and played the politics of division and victimhood for two reasons- money and power




I'm not saying that people should abandon their culture, but rather that they should try to understand the culture that they have chosen to live in and integrate to the extent that it doesn't conflict with their religious beliefs.


exactly



To do otherwise runs the risk of generations of kangija's - when someone constantly gives and then stops giving, there is a risk that some people will think something has been taken away.


indeed, unfortunately, due to the actions of idiotic government policies and from those within positions of power within Islam in the UK, Islamic matters/ "community" are now treated like children whom you cannot upset- this also leads to a massive over proportion of coverage, consideration etc given to Islam- it is only 3% in the UK, yet compare the coverage to Hindus, Jews etc



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 06:28 AM
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reply to post by blueorder
 


Let's not forget that the indigenous population also have to play their part.

With the best government initiatives in the world, if the majority of the populace are not on board with the idea then it will fail.

Let's face it, things are better now than they were 40, 30, 20 or even ten years ago - but they still need to improve, and the people can help with this.

Instead, we still see a certain amount of separation of communities - and I don't put the blame on militants for this, I think that a lot of the blame lies with british people as well.
Then again, we are not known for embracing different cultures, but for tolerance, and this is key - if something is merely tolerated, then perhaps we need a re-think about some aspects of our social identity and structure.



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 06:31 AM
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reply to post by budski
 


"Western" goverments are not based on christian ideals. The are based on the will of the people, rule of law, democratical political and electorial process, separation of church and state ...

The other thing is our legal systems. In predominantly christian countries legal systems are based on theology. And because "we" apply reason and logic in our relationship and understanding to deity/ies and divine, under our "Laws of the Land" multiculturalism, ethnic diversity and religion practices are possible.
On the other hand Sharia legal system in muslim countries is based on religion (dogma, holy scriptures).
Legal system in Israel is also partially based on religion (probably because they were lacking political authority in their past)

This is IMO the main cause why we are having such a difference of opinions in our discussions.

As for the social transfers issue. Most of the people are trying to play, manipulate or go around the system. This has nothing to do with religion or need for help to survive. But it sure has plenty to do with greed and/or laziness.

PS. Quite amusing thread I must say. Is could be presented as an example in some social/behavioral studies. People are generally quite reasonable, but throw a little god in to them and they quickly loose their cool like our passionate five star general.



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 06:35 AM
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Originally posted by budski
Let's not forget that the indigenous population also have to play their part.

With the best government initiatives in the world, if the majority of the populace are not on board with the idea then it will fail.



The "populace" were on board because anyone oppposing the multi cultural line was hounded like a medieval witch with cries of "racism" ala honeyford in Bradford in the 1980s




Let's face it, things are better now than they were 40, 30, 20 or even ten years ago - but they still need to improve, and the people can help with this.


Im not sure about things being better



Instead, we still see a certain amount of separation of communities - and I don't put the blame on militants for this, I think that a lot of the blame lies with british people as well.



I personally blame those within positions of power in government, councils, social services etc (from the indigenous side) and likewise, those in power on the immigrant side



Then again, we are not known for embracing different cultures, but for tolerance, and this is key - if something is merely tolerated, then perhaps we need a re-think about some aspects of our social identity and structure.


I don't think tolerance is a bad thing, people are not "bad" or "good" for embracing different cultures, why would one "embrace" a culture from Africa, Asia or Europe- some will some won't- certain aspects if imported culture should never be tolerated in any event



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 06:39 AM
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Can we please focus on the topic at hand, and not other members? And let's not give into the temptation of 1-liners.

Thanks.



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by budski
It's an imperfect world we live in, and whether we like it or not, many western governments are also based originally on christian ideals.

This is ingrained over a period of time until we forget the christian ideals and just call it democracy, for the most part.

Most of western government is based around the ten commandments and the bible in one form or another - it's just that most people have forgotten the "root" of our laws are the same as our beliefs (in general)

I'd welcome changes in the law provided they were sensible, and provided other countries reciprocated.


The concept of a republic was around long before Christianity.

And the governing laws were not based on the ten commandments. Even thou shalt not kill or steal were rules of civilized society prior to Moses and teh 10 commandments.



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