"Let Them Eat Cake!", page 6

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by jfj123

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...but refuse to understand that nobody puts anything in your mouth for you. You pick up the food and eat it. You decide what to eat and how much. Excuses, excuses, excuses

What you fail to understand is that this so called "food" actually is being put into our mouths.

In most area's of the United States, the food supply is not limited. You decide what goes in your mouth-period.

Unless you are lucky enough to be completely self-contained in subsistence farming, what you eat is beyond your personal control.

It almost never is beyond your control in most area's of the United States. It may be more difficult to get better quality foods but not impossible.

And if these disease inducing food-products contain chemicals that actually induce hunger, then it is no surprise that people will eat more than they should.

I would like to see scientific evidence that these food INDUCE hunger while you're eating them. Please post your scientific evidence.

If your only choices are sausage biscuit or cheeseburger, what difference does it really make what your "personal decision" is?

Unless you are locked in a McDonald's, this just isn't the case.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by jfj123


From your own definition:

Vitamin deficiency is also a common result of starvation, often resulting in anemia, beriberi, pellagra, and scurvy.

Yes a RESULT of not a CAUSE of-There is a HUGE difference.

Vitamin deficiency is the result of starvation. Hence, if fat people are starving to death they are suffering vitamin deficiency.

That is true but it doesn't mean that if you are vitamin deficient, you are starving to death. It doesn't work both ways.

I will even go so far as to propose that diabetes is not caused by obesity, but malnutrition. About eighty percent of people who suffer from diabetes are overweight. This means that weight cannot be the ultimate cause of diabetes. However, you will probably find that one-hundred percent of diabetes sufferers have a low nutrient diet, or did so for an extended period of time.

And when a number of people lose weight, they lose symptoms regardless of diet change.
If you have scientific evidence that diabetes is ONLY caused by malnutrition, please post it. If you don't have any evidence, you are just stating an opinion. This is one of the problems with individuals who claim knowledge of nutrition. They makes claims but never back them up with science.

[edit on 5-2-2008 by jfj123]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by jfj123

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You must also understand there is more then one factor at work here. Yes fast foods are less unhealthy then they used to be but we are more sedentary then we used to be and there are other foods that we consume along with fast food such as massive amounts more, of soda, candy and snack foods then we used to. That minor offset by fast food getting less unhealthy is not seen because of all the other increased factors.

For certain fast-food restaurants are not the ultimate cause of the conditions we are seeing today. If it was that plain, the conspiracy would have been revealed and understood long ago. It is far more complex. This is why it still continues, and society is powerless against it.

The more sedentary nature of our society in recent years is a result as much as it is a cause.

I'm not sure what "conspiracy" you are referring? Keeping in mind that these same conspirators must be killing themselves with their own supposed poison. Those "conspirators" must be incredibly stupid people and thus not smart enough to pull off a massive, worldwide conspiracy. Irony

[edit on 5-2-2008 by jfj123]

reply to post by jfj123

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In most area's of the United States, the food supply is not limited. You decide what goes in your mouth-period.

Despite the wide variety of flavors and textures, the food supply actually is quite limited throughout the country. Limited to food-like products that have been modified and stripped of essential nutrients. It makes no difference if there is one choice, or a hundred-thousand choices if you can only decide on what flavor of non-food you are going to eat. You cannot decide to eat healthy food if there is none present. Period.

It almost never is beyond your control in most area's of the United States. It may be more difficult to get better quality foods but not impossible.

Perhaps not impossible by your standards, but you fail to recognize that there are large numbers of American who have difficulty getting any food, much less healthy food. In the richest country in the world, there should not be any such "difficulty" in gaining access to nutritious foods.

I would like to see scientific evidence that these food INDUCE hunger while you're eating them. Please post your scientific evidence.

You are in no position to challenge my expertise.






[edit on 2/5/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by jfj123

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Your attempts to deflect from the real issues have become obvious.

If you cannot understand the definition of starvation, then that would be a "you" problem. But perhaps I can be of assistance one last time.

To better understand the word "starvation" I will provide the definition of the root word, "starve."

1. to die or perish from lack of food or nourishment.

Please note the emphasis on the word "or" which I have provided for better understanding.

reply to post by jfj123

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I'm not sure what "conspiracy" you are referring? Keeping in mind that these same conspirators must be killing themselves with their own supposed poison. Those "conspirators" must be incredibly stupid people and thus not smart enough to pull off a massive, worldwide conspiracy. Irony

The conspiracy I am referring to is the one which I have clearly outlined here. Did you get lost?

Do you honestly believe that the perpetrators of this conspiracy are eating from the public food supply? I wonder who is incredibly stupid. Irony.

Yep, when we have hotdog buns made out of cardboard and porkfat

www.sfgate.com...

It's easy to see that this is occuring.

Imagine a world in which mankind is not at the top of the foodchain. A world marked by a time of much sorrow. Indeed one marked my all the indications the whole of mankind had failed to learn the historical lessons of slavery: that a civilization is defined by the type of labor required to sustain it and ensure its survival.

Yes a world in which humans provide the sustenance required for a much larger animal. But why wouldn't, or couldn't, mankind defend themselves against this beast? Because this beast, this particular one, is almost invisible. It can not be seen as it moves, but once it is upon you, the bite from this creature, and its venomous effects can not help but be seen.

A bite from this wild animal can cause neurosis, eating disorders, addictions, disease, and even death. But that's the curious nature of this beast. It thrives on all of these which accompany it's bite.

This animal can enslave the mind of man with a single bite. Other people might not fall so quickly, but once bitten are always seduced to dance with the beast just one more time. Once they fall though, they feel as if they need the beast, so they feed it willingly, with vigor, only to become even more depleted.

This is a world where large collectives and meta collectives known as corporations and conglomerates, have achieved an equilibrium with mankind. A balance was found which identified the amount of consumption required to maintain the lifestyle that the masters of the beast had become accustomed to.

This beast holds a magic mirror as well, one which reflects the labor required to produce goods and services when gazed into by the number of consumers required to purchase these goods. All to maintain the lifestyles of the top 1%,

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by jfj123

---

In most area's of the United States, the food supply is not limited. You decide what goes in your mouth-period.

Despite the wide variety of flavors and textures, the food supply actually is quite limited throughout the country. Limited to food-like products that have been modified and stripped of essential nutrients. It makes no difference if there is one choice, or a hundred-thousand choices if you can only decide on what flavor of non-food you are going to eat. You cannot decide to eat healthy food if there is none present. Period.

And if that were really true, that would be bad but your statement is simply false.

It almost never is beyond your control in most area's of the United States. It may be more difficult to get better quality foods but not impossible.

Perhaps not impossible by your standards, but you fail to recognize that there are large numbers of American who have difficulty getting any food, much less healthy food. In the richest country in the world, there should not be any such "difficulty" in gaining access to nutritious foods.
I agree that those who are EXTREMELY poor, have a hard time feeding themselves and that is always bad. I'm not referring to extreme poverty however.

I would like to see scientific evidence that these food INDUCE hunger while you're eating them. Please post your scientific evidence.

You are in no position to challenge my expertise.

Of course I am. What makes you think I am not? If you truly have ANY expertise in the field of nutrition and human physiology, you should be able to post evidence which supports your claims. If your claims are real, they are measurable.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by jfj123

---

Your attempts to deflect from the real issues have become obvious.

If you cannot understand the definition of starvation, then that would be a "you" problem. But perhaps I can be of assistance one last time.

Actually the problem is yours as you do not understand the word and it's application with regard to the nutrition of the human body.

To better understand the word "starvation" I will provide the definition of the root word, "starve."

1. to die or perish from lack of food or nourishment.

Please note the emphasis on the word "or" which I have provided for better understanding.

The problem here is that you are misunderstanding the word in the context of physiology.

I've already posted the definition.

For example:

The body can be STARVED of vitamins-This means the body needs more vitamins or is in a vitamin deficit.

The person died from STARVATION-This person went through a process where their body was deprived specifically of calories until organs shut down/were damaged to the point of death.

You can add things to root words to change their meaning so simply going by a root words definition may not give you total meaning and context.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by jfj123

---

I'm not sure what "conspiracy" you are referring? Keeping in mind that these same conspirators must be killing themselves with their own supposed poison. Those "conspirators" must be incredibly stupid people and thus not smart enough to pull off a massive, worldwide conspiracy. Irony

The conspiracy I am referring to is the one which I have clearly outlined here. Did you get lost?

Do you honestly believe that the perpetrators of this conspiracy are eating from the public food supply? I wonder who is incredibly stupid. Irony.

But you've stated there is no good food to eat so of course they would need to eat their own tainted food supply.
Unless of course there is some super secret hidden food supply somewhere that nobody knows about???
Where is this special food coming from? who is growing, processing and shipping it? Who is warehousing all this food? Who is preparing all this secret food? And who is eating all this secret, non-tainted food? So now thousands and thousands of people are covering up a secret food supply and nobody has ever spilled the beans? Not one person with a conscience? Nobody has ever even seen it?? DOUBTFUL.

Here's a good guide to go by:
The larger the perceived conspiracy, the less likely it is to be real.

reply to post by Obliv_au

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I am appaled by the crap parents send their kids for lunch.
My son generally prefers to buy his lunch, because it is novel and new to be able to do so, but even doing that he gets a protein a fresh fruit and a and a fresh or frozen veggie, they dont use canned produce which impressed me, along with low fat chocolate or vanilla milk. not too bad
and every so often a starch. Not too bad for 1.50 a day paying full price

But i pack his lunch several times a week and he always gets fruit, yogurt, either a sandwich on whole grain bread with lean meat or slices of lunch meat with wheat crackers and real cheese...homemade lunchable for a fraction of the cost. For dessert he gets yogurt or something like yogurt covered raisins or pretzels. As a drink he gets a bottle of water or real juice.

Peanut butter isnt too expensive and if you get the transfat free variety itsa good filling source of protein,

Even better buy some unshelled roasted peanuts and make your own, those are not expensive
Oatmeal is a very good for you filling and not expensive food, way better than sugary cereals and with some fruit and honey tastes every bit as appealing.

I do allow treats, its all about balance we have snack stuff and cookies or ice cream, but i try to make it myself.

With an ice cream maker I got on sale I can make a gallon of make you moan ice cream using organic milk and cream, raw sugar and vanilla bean or real vanilla extract for under 10 dollars, and its so rich you dont gorge yourself on it so much.

You can make your own yogurt for pennies and it tastes so good

I always keep apples and bananas and he will go grab one of those instead of powdered donuts when he wants a snack, or a yogurt tube made with organic yogurt. He loves fruit of all kinds and will happily eat fresh pinapple or cantaloupe or watermelon and never know he is eating healthy or missing out on junk food.

My kid isnt an exception, if given the opportunity to eat well they will, if they are exposed to fruits and veggies from the time they are little it becomes a habit.

He has eaten salad since he was a toddler, I dont mind if its covered in ranch dressing, he will burn the fat off, but he is getting greens, tomatoes, cucumbers, carrots, and whatever else I think to throw in there. All cheap veggies with a varied nutritional make-up

I have gone to one of those make your own meal places and spent about a hundred dollars to make 10 meals from fresh to take home and freeze for nights i dont have time to cook. I could have spent less and done it all at home, but it was nice to have the recipe and chopping etc all done for me. And it keeps us from ordering pizza or going to wendys or something.

reply to post by jfj123

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I agree that those who are EXTREMELY poor, have a hard time feeding themselves and that is always bad. I'm not referring to extreme poverty however.

Twelve percent of the US poulation lives below the poverty line. For an individual, this means surviving on less than $10,500 per year. In reality, someone making twice as much money will still have difficulty subsisting, and this includes buying nutritious foods. And these numbers do not take into account the economic conditions of our society across the board, which are not controlled by the individual. Even if you have the money, you may not have the time to eat healthy, because you are so busy trying to keep you job and your house.

Of course I am. What makes you think I am not? If you truly have ANY expertise in the field of nutrition and human physiology, you should be able to post evidence which supports your claims. If your claims are real, they are measurable.

Please feel free to post any scientific evidence you have which may refute any claims that I have made.







[edit on 2/6/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by jfj123

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The problem here is that you are misunderstanding the word in the context of physiology.

Your semantics have become irrelevant to this discussion.

star·va·tion [stahr-vey-shuhn]
–noun 1. the act or state of starving; condition of being starved.
–adjective 2. liable or seeming to cause starving

See above for definition of root word.

The person died from STARVATION-This person went through a process where their body was deprived specifically of calories until organs shut down/were damaged to the point of death.

I never made any reference to deprivation of calories. My claim is based on people who suffer from disease and who expire as the result of nutritional starvation.

If you ate pounds of margarine everyday, you would have calories, but you would die directly as a result of your diet.

reply to post by jfj123

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But you've stated there is no good food to eat so of course they would need to eat their own tainted food supply.

There is still some nutritious foods left available to the public. My point is that it has become increasingly diffucult to obtain in the past two decades, for a variety of reasons which I have already outlined. Those who are perpetrating this campaign of starvation upon the American public are immune to the conditions which, again, have already been plainly stated. This is the food supply of the American public we are discussing here, not the private farms of the elite.

Your attempt to protray my statements as being contrary to themselves reveals your frustration in failing to actually disprove anything I have said, much less the entirety of my claim. Perhaps I should be asking you where the secret food supply is.

The larger the perceived conspiracy, the less likely it is to be real.

To your words I will respond with the famous words of a man who was very much like, and before his fall was in league with, those who are perpetrating this monumental crime against humanity today, Adolf Hitler:

The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.

And this one will explain why the people have not yet realized what is happening, and who is actually telling the truth here:

By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise.

[edit on 2/6/0808 by jackinthebox]

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