"Let Them Eat Cake!"

i have a friend working as a psych nurse in an eating disorder unit... i asked whether they admitted people who ate too much? she said no, it was only for people who ate too little... difference? people eating to little may die tomorrow while people eating to much are dieing slowly... interesting way to differentiate your patients...

i also think people have a weird idea about their food... its almost like sex... people living to eat.... i've always thought of my food as fuel rather than fun... can't help to think it comes from salt and sugar and the rush we get off both...

i was homeless once and basically lived off of "nuts and berries" i.e unslated peanuts and raisans... not much else... i had plenty of energy, cost pennies a pound and I was never ill...

i'd also suggest people end up spending most of their grocery money on meat and fatty foods... eliminate these from our diet and we may have more money for fruits and vegetables... i've been vegan for 20+ years and the funniest question i'm asked is "so what do you eat?" ... speaks volumes about the conditioning people have towards their meals...

reply to post by themillersdaughter

...the only kind of restaurant I really like to frequent is the Japanese steak house where they chop and cook the food right in front of me.

Probabaly a better choice, but obviously you do not know how the food was handled before it was prepared. Furthermore, if they are using bulk-pack supermarket grade meats, you are still running into the problem of unknown additives and depleted nutritional value. We shouldn't be having to worry about such things though.

As far as being poor and subsisting on ramen noodles and such: you can do better. (Those ramen noodles are glue, dude!) There has to be a farmer's market near you somewhere. Or a co-op? If not, start one! Even getting together with friends to buy in bulk at a bigger store can defray costs. Eating beans and brown rice provides a complete protein and all the carbs you need for energy. Bake your own whole wheat bread...it isn't rocket science and it costs pennies compared to the expensive multi-grain loaves that still contain high-fructose corn syrup (another pervasive ingredient that goes straight to your liver and never comes out).

I hate ramen.

No farmer's market in the off season, and too expensive when they are open. All the real farms have been shut down for development, including those owned by friends of mine for many generations, and my own family as well. What they call "farm markets" here today are nothing more than novelties that cater to the crowd that comes up out of the city to go antiquing on the weekends.

No land to start a co-op.

No one to buy in bulk with. This is also what drives up the cost of eating for many people. I have no family of my own, so I cannot save on bulk packs of goods either, nor would I have a place to store them. The cost per meal drops sharply when you do have a family.

As far as baking and cooking go, there are many who have difficulty paying their utilities without the added cost of running the stove and/or oven as opposed to running the microwave for a minute. Furthermore, many studio apartments have no kitchens.

I was eating a lot of rice and beans when I had a place to store them, but I am homeless now, and have to only buy what I am going to eat right then.

Please don't think that I am trying to be obtuse, I am merely trying to illuminate the conditions that many people never consider because they simply don't know.

On the other hand, you do seem to know quite a bit about food and what is being done to it. Thanks for posting to share those insights.








[edit on 2/3/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by smans


half-pound bologna = $1.40
quarter-pound american cheese = 1.38
one can soup = $1

The above alternative is not real food either, that's also part of the trick about food you are faced with.

True indeed. I would also like to add that those prices reflect this week's sale price, not the regular prices.

I will now do a price-comparison to your list.

Wholemeal bread 2 x slices $0.20
Unavailable. The closest thing I can find is store brand wheat bread on sale for $1.50. Furthermore, I have no place to store leftover bread. But let's go ahead and guesstimate the cost here at what I have listed above.

Slice of low fat unprocessed ham 1 slice $0.53
Unavailable. The closest thing I could find was Boar's Head brand Virginia Ham. The brand is supposed to exclude fillers and such, but who knows. Again I face the problem of having nowhere to store leftovers, so purchasing one slice of ham will be difficult. I figured on slice to be about one sixteenth of a pound. The cost is again figured above.

Rocket Lettuce
I don't know what rocket lettuce is, but there is no lettuce on sale this week, so I will have to skip it.

Tomato $2.50
None on sale this week. Furthermore, non-organic tomatos are severly lacking in nutrients. Let's try a pint of cherry tomatos to make up for the loss of lettuce.

low fat Cream cheese or "Quark" $0.22
Cannot purchase in single-serve amount, but the price per ounce is listed in the entry.

an apple $1.24
No apples on sale this week. I will guess that a nectarine weighs a half- pound. Cost entered above.

Joguhrt $0.50
One six-ounce cup yogurt.

TOTAL = $5.19


As you can see, there is a cost benefit to eating foods that are not healthy for you.

Furthermore, I can have two burgers and a cup of chili at a fast-food restaurant for $3.19.


[edit on 2/4/0808 by jackinthebox]

[edit on 2/4/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by jackinthebox


I am sorry to reply here, as you were addressing another person, but I have an idea for you and your situation.

I once worked for a large company and our departments would have "team building" days where we would go out of office to bond. On more than one occasion we volunteerd to work at a food bank packing boxes for donations. This was in a large city in the southwest.

We learned that several other people who were working at the food bank, were homeless, but still volunteerd to help. One reason why, is that they were fed while on their shifts. They did not get paid, but received cooked meals for their help. I think a lot of the meals consisted of beans and rice, but it was a hot meal, and more nutritious than fast food.

Oh, and just another thought I would like to share with you, since you mentioned utility bills. On the days off when I would cook several meals at one time, I was able to turn the thermostat down in the house since the oven or stove would be on for a good portion of the day. Also, when you run into trouble as far as being on a lay off from work, call your utility company. Some are more than willing to work with you if you give them a heads up for a month, anyway. As long as you do not get a disconnect notice before letting them know what is going on, you would be surprised how understanding they might be. They may also work out a payment schedule plan with you that might fit into a tight budget. At least that has been my experience in the past, anyway.

reply to post by Obliv_au

...so many people cook a decent meal but then the kids sit down in front of the telly to a large packet of chips and wash it down with copious amounts of soft drink right before bed...gone are the days of a sandwich, apple + fruit drink in a kids lunch box as most kids get some sugary breakfast and in their lunch box is choc layered muesli bars and a can of drink from the machine in the lunch room

There is truth in this. Soft drinks are terrible, but so many people drink nothing but soda-pop. I never buy it when I am shopping for groceries, but do drink it when I am out more than I should. I prefer unsweetened iced-tea if they have it though. My girlfriend's family never has anything but cola in the house, so I drink water if I forget to bring something.

In your example, there are people who are not snacking healthy. This is a matter of addiction, and possibly cost, as opposed to laziness. This addiction is fueled by the chemical ingredients themselves, as well as advertising and social pressures.

reply to post by Long Lance


Thank you for the link. I intend to look into this a bit more. Star for you. This seems to be some real scientific information which supports my argument that our natural means of food production is in jeopardy.

Soil Depletion & Micronutrient Deficiency

reply to post by bg_socalif

People consuming processed foods high in calories, fat and sodium and generally being lazier and less active than in the past, equals an explosion in obesity and type 2 diabetes. Not to mention a boon for the healthcare companies.

No argument there.

People just rather sit in front of their TV or computer and stuff their face with junk food these days.

Why so suddenly in the past decade or two? And why mostly in America?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to eat healthy.

Actually, it's beginning to look like it does. Especially when the "healthy" foods are even being stripped of nutrients now. Even the fresh produce at the supermarket.

Obesity crosses all economic and ethnic lines.

More evidence to support that our ENTIRE food supply has been undermined.

It's pretty simple to eat healthy, if you really want to.

If it was so simple, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

In a perfect world we would all drink water and eat greens. But we will all die eventually.

The thing I don't understand with the envirohippygreentreehuggingwhatchamacallits is that they too get sick. They also get cancer. What are they trying to accomplish? You can eat good food all your life and still get sick just like the other guys.

Do you think cancer is a thing of only the last 100 years? Diabetes? Lifespans have gone up largely because of things the envirohippygreentreehuggingwhatchamacallits hate.

People choose organic food but do not think twice about filling themselves with life saving drugs. Thought you never liked chemicals....

I noticed that a few people have posted as I am going through the thread here. I would like to respond in turn to each issue I see raised, but please feel free to interject at any time. I will catch up eventually.

[edit on 2/4/0808 by jackinthebox]

Corporate america has managed to herd us in every which direction. It's our own damn fault, we love the convenience. What are we so busy doing that we cant stop long enough to go into our kitchens and cook for ourselves? We eat the crap, breath in the fumes from the SUV in front of us, then sit and let the television tell us how to feel and think. And then when it all catches up with us we hold our hand out for the pharmacuticals.

reply to post by Enthralled Fan


I am so glad that there are still some people out there who go out of their way to help other people, and still realize that "community" is not just a zip code. When I was growing up, I had a lot of friends come to my house too, all because my mother cooked and taught me to as well. And I'm not talking about how to bake pizza-bites either.

You mentioned that some people cannot afford the little extra for food that is more nutritious? I don't believe that for a minute. Do you ever comparison shop? You could buy rice, beans, and broccoli for the amount of a meal you listed that would feed you for a few meals versus the fast food stop. The tricky part would be that you would have to actually go to a grocery store and prepare the food. Laziness has a large part to do with people not eating properly, also. It's much easier to pick up junk food than to put the effort in to shopping and meal preperation. Also, there is a messy kitchen to clean up. Where there is will, there is a way!

I have no choice BUT to comparison shop. And what I have found is that, regardless of preperation, unhealthy foods are cheaper in many situations.

Rice = $2.49 for 14oz. box
Black Beans = $1 for 19oz. can
Snow Peas (sub. for broccoli not on sale) = $3.69 for 6oz. bag

TOTAL = $7.18 (or $3.59 for two meals)

Now you must calculate the cost of actually cooking. A propane burner will cost you about $0.75 an hour to run, so add that to the cost of the meal. Water to cook the rice and veggies in, another $0.25. Now your cost per meal is up over four dollars. And this doesn't even inlcude cleanup costs such as running water and detergent, nor the original cost for the cookware.

Again, as I said to someone else, not trying to be obtuse here, just trying to highlight the things people generally just don't think about.

reply to post by jfj123

Now there are health problems associated with high fat diets or diets that do not provide enough vitamins and minerals but again that doesn't cause starvation.

If the health problems are cause by a lack of nutrients, and they die from those health problems, they are indeed starving to death regardless of their weight. There are perfectly healthy people who are large and small, the nutrients are the only thing that matters in wether or not someone lives or dies. I guarantee you that if you eat nothing but lean boot leather and tubs of margarine, you will die

In fact, fast foods have been around for a very long time so where are all the bodies that have been starved to death? In fact, fast food restaurants have changed their cooking methods which means it's less unhealthy now then it was 20 years ago.

We are told it is less unhealthy, but I don't belive it anymore than I believe that margarine is better for you than butter. If you want to find the bodies, go dig up anyone who has died of a heart attack, or stroke, or diabetes, or cancer, etc. I am convinced that the number of deaths from these diseases would be radically reduced were it not for the intentional starvation of critical nutrients.




[edit on 2/4/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by Question


I very much agree. If you can get enough people to come together as a community, do it. If you can grow a garden, do it.

But be careful. You might get burned out by a three-letter agency who don't like that sort of thing, and like to use the word "cult" a lot.

Unfortunately my time on this borrowed computer is about to expire for the night, so I must wait until the next time to reply further.

Thank you all once again.

I shall return...

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by jfj123

 

Now there are health problems associated with high fat diets or diets that do not provide enough vitamins and minerals but again that doesn't cause starvation.

If the health problems are cause by a lack of nutrients, and they die from those health problems, they are indeed starving to death regardless of their weight. There are perfectly healthy people who are large and small, the nutrients are the only thing that matters in wether or not someone lives or dies. I guarantee you that if you eat nothing but lean boot leather and tubs of margarine, you will die

A lack of calories causes starvation. A lack of vitamins and minerals can cause disease and disfunction.

Here's a definition of starvation
"Individuals experiencing starvation lose substantial fat (a.k.a. adipose) and muscle mass as the body breaks down these tissues for energy. Catabolysis is the process (medical condition) of a body breaking down muscles and other tissues in order to keep vital systems—such as the nervous system and heart muscle (myocardium) —working. Catabolysis will not begin until there are no usable sources of energy coming into the body.

Vitamin deficiency is also a common result of starvation, often resulting in anemia, beriberi, pellagra, and scurvy."

My point is that the lack of calories cause starvation not a lack of Vit. & Min., as they are a RESULT of starvation.

You don't starve to death while eating excessive calories unless you have a massive tape worm.

In fact, fast foods have been around for a very long time so where are all the bodies that have been starved to death? In fact, fast food restaurants have changed their cooking methods which means it's less unhealthy now then it was 20 years ago.

We are told it is less unhealthy, but I don't belive it anymore than I believe that margarine is better for you than butter. If you want to find the bodies, go dig up anyone who has died of a heart attack, or stroke, or diabetes, or cancer, etc. I am convinced that the number of deaths from these diseases would be radically reduced were it not for the intentional starvation of critical nutrients.

I think you're misunderstanding the definition of starvation.

You must also understand there is more then one factor at work here. Yes fast foods are less unhealthy then they used to be but we are more sedentary then we used to be and there are other foods that we consume along with fast food such as massive amounts more, of soda, candy and snack foods then we used to. That minor offset by fast food getting less unhealthy is not seen because of all the other increased factors.


[edit on 4-2-2008 by jfj123]

how about this?
1 hunting license with antlered tag- $20
2 anterless licenses- $12
3 30/06 cartridges- less than $3
1 orange vest and a hat- $5
(of course all of my hunting equipment cost me way more than that LOL)
3 deer not exposed to steroids and whatever other crap they feed to animals -100lbs (at least) of nice healthy meat. what would that cost in a butcher shop? $500? easy for beef
1 deer steak on the grill- priceless
takes a bit of work but you get exercise and can enjoy being out in nature at the same time and there are always the memories. but the point being for a minimal price you can get over $500 worth of meat. grow your own veggies and you are good to go. i personally don't have a garden but i grow tomatoes and peppers in 5 gallon buckets on my deck and they do great except for the groundhogs now and then. i made 5 gallons of tomato sauce lastyear from only 12 plants and that doesn't include the ones i ate or pickled. i also got around 600 peppers off of 6 plants. i wish i had room for a garden because i definitely don't eat as much veggies as i should- and at least growing them myself i know what is in them and the organic stuff can get very expensive to buy
also why has noone mentioned including more fish in their diet? probably next to veggies the healthiest food you can eat. as long as it is wild and not the farm raised fish that they feed god knows what to- like they do with steer

Someone was talking about the "microwave generation" here. That's a topic in itself. I threw my microwave away two years ago and have been living happily ever since. Thought I couldn't do without it at first, but that's absolutely not the case.

The reason why I did it was that I've read about Russian studies how microwaves "denature" food and change its molecular consistency. That was pretty off-putting, but what gave me the rest was when I surfed the Net and found a website (forgot the URL) -- a family's homepage, actually.

The family's 12-year-old kid had started a 4-week science project for school: He or she bought two small plants from the nursery -- identical plants, identical size -- and watered one with regular tap water and the other with microwaved water. After only two weeks, the plant that had been given microwaved water was dead.

That did it for me; I tossed out my microwave and never looked back.

Originally posted by sylvie


The family's 12-year-old kid had started a 4-week science project for school: He or she bought two small plants from the nursery -- identical plants, identical size -- and watered one with regular tap water and the other with microwaved water. After only two weeks, the plant that had been given microwaved water was dead.

Thats not exactly a double blind, placebo controlled experiment. What if one of them died because of a parasite or some other unknown environmental factor that a 12 year old may not have accounted for?

reply to post by cbianchi513

Being FAT (not the more "pc" obese, mind you) is a CHOICE. That's right- people choose to be fat, or more accurately- choose not to be fit.

Why? What has changed in the last twenty years that has turned this problem into an epidemic so suddenly? Why isn't this happening elewhere in the world?

The problem starts with parents and continues with kids. Americans are always "hurry hurry" about everything.

This is true, but again I seek the answer why. The parents work erratic schedules for long hours. As a result, they neglect their own health and that of ther children. (Even beyond diet and nutrition, these children today are raising themselves and then we dare to wonder why they went on a shooting rampage.) Does anyone honestly believe that this is truly done by choice? That the parents really don't care about themselves and their own children? That being lazy is more important than life itself?

Have fun roasting in hell, fatties!

Completely rude and unnecessary in this discussion. Obvioulsy you are of limited resources to make a valid point. I suggest you take note of two more of the Seven Deadly Sins; Avaritia, and Superbia.

reply to post by jfj123

...but refuse to understand that nobody puts anything in your mouth for you. You pick up the food and eat it. You decide what to eat and how much. Excuses, excuses, excuses

What you fail to understand is that this so called "food" actually is being put into our mouths. Unless you are lucky enough to be completely self-contained in subsistence farming, what you eat is beyond your personal control. And if these disease inducing food-products contain chemicals that actually induce hunger, then it is no surprise that people will eat more than they should.

If your only choices are sausage biscuit or cheeseburger, what difference does it really make what your "personal decision" is?



[edit on 2/4/0808 by jackinthebox]