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WHO reports Tamiflu-resistant flu in U.S., Canada

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posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 05:00 PM

WHO reports Tamiflu-resistant flu in U.S., Canada

GENEVA (Reuters) - The main seasonal flu virus in the United States and Canada as well as parts of Europe shows higher resistance to the antiviral drug Tamiflu, raising questions about its potential effectiveness in a human bird flu pandemic.

The World Health Organization (WHO) reported the elevated resistance in North America on Friday, but said it was too early to know what the chances may be for increased Tamiflu resistance in the H5N1 strain of avian influenza.
(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 05:00 PM
At this time its not the oft mentioned H5N1 that is showing resistance but H1N1, but it clearly hightlights that influenza can easly mutate.

Resistance does not mean it wont work it just means that a more intense drug regimine may be required to treat it. But it is very very concerning as Tamiflu was considered the best hope for quelling an outbreak of Avian Flu. If you cannot protect health care workers, they too are going to get sick and the healthy ones may not come into work. Would you willing go into a situation that puts your family at risk?
(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 05:09 PM
reply to post by FredT

There is a Plan B that isn't talked about my friend. There are other anti-virals that may be used. In the absolute worst case scenerio, some of the HIV protease inhibitors may be tried. It's not a great Plan B, but the combo of that and Tamiflu may be just enough.
Tamiflu, if used within the 1st 48 hours of infection, will shorten the length and lower the severity of the flu...not prevent it. So the key is to prevent the cytokine storm that is involved. No storm, no flooded lungs, no pneumonia, no death.
Here is a link for Flu outbreak stats for the US for this week. Enjoy!

posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 05:19 PM
reply to post by harddrive21

Yeah its an interesting thought. Treatment modalities like CVVH (CRRT) can attenutate and remove cytokines from the bloodstream but its not realistic to expect everyone will access to that treatment.

If we are at the Plan B stage we are in BIG BIG trouble.

posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 07:40 PM
reply to post by FredT

Well, as it stands now - Plan A (aka Tamiflu) is only about 5% effective at best at a dose 2x what is currently used (150mg twice daily instead of 75mg twice daily). That poor performance can't entirely be trusted since it has been used in about 150 patients or so. Influenza is highly dangerous in children/infants - but Tamiflu seems to not work and injure/kill the kids (cases of Tamiflu death in Japan).
The drug has a short shelf life and a low production from Roche. The ultimate rock and a hard place.
Plan B (aka Tamiflu with Probenecid, Relenza, or any other antiviral) - yeah, see Plan A. No real data or information. Until H5N1 passes from human to human and becomes a Pandemic, we probably will not know.
As far as I know, there is no *Confirmed* cases of human to human contact - claims were made in India, China and the Indonesia.
Plan C - a vaccine. I had a post earlier about an "Ultimate Flu Shot" - here is the link.
But that, at best, would take probably 9 months or so for full scale production and distribution - just like a regular flu shot or one that would be specific for H5N1.
Plans A, B and C stink.
As a healthcare worker - I like Plan D. Stock up and do not leave the house. That would work for my family. I probably would be in the hospital, but they would be safe. I have a short stockpile of basic rations, I hope I never have to use them.

posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 08:11 PM
I made a similar thread a few days ago regards to the mass advanced sickness.'

Its an issue no doubt and I think its more widespread than the CDC is reporting.

posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 08:24 PM
From the CDC link :

The Epidemiology and Prevention Branch in the Influenza Division at CDC collects, compiles and analyzes information on influenza activity year round in the United States and produces a weekly report from October through mid-May. The U.S. influenza surveillance system is a collaborative effort between CDC and its many partners in state and local health departments, public health and clinical laboratories, vital statistics offices, physicians, clinics and emergency departments, and the Departments of Defense and Veteran’s Affairs. Information in five categories is collected from 10 different data sources that allow CDC to:

* Find out when and where influenza activity is occurring
* Track influenza-related illness
* Determine what influenza viruses are circulating
* Detect changes in influenza viruses
* Measure the impact influenza is having on deaths in the United States

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

So the info comes from, well, everywhere. State and local governments, hospitals, MD offices, etc. This only accounts for the flu - not pneumonia (even though it is influenza related - opportunisticlly), the common cold or the "stomach flu".

And for the other thread - if there was a mutant flu out there now that was ravaging this country, it would be known. If you feel a conspiracy is out there and the media wouldn't report it, other outlets would. Drudge, CBC, BBC and others would be all over it since a Pandemic is a short flight away.
I am not knocking your thread, but if there was a beatdown out there, there are health care workers that would post it, write it or get the info out there. We are not all mindless machines of the government.

posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 08:33 PM
I think there are a lot of people getting sick and everyone that I talk to cant explain why. I know its winter and people get sick but this is on a mass scale. Walk down any given street ask 10 people if they are sick or someone in their family and Im willing to bet 8 out of 10 say yes.

posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 08:34 PM
Well who on earth takes Tamiflu for the ordinary flu? The flu comes and goes each year, most people die from dehydration. Also, when idiots get a hold of products like Tamiflu, they tend to abuse it and take it at the first sign of the flu in their community. Reminds me of antibiotics and its abuse. The main thing to remember is to stay hydrated, if you are worried, then buy tonnes of Gator aid, keep natural salt and organic sugars available in very large quantities for you and your loved ones, and when the flu hits in earnest, don't go to public places if you can avoid them. Wait 10 days, then resume your life.

posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 11:52 AM
The answer to who take Tamiflu for a regular flu is : alot of people (as long as the patients insurance will cover it at an outpatient pharmacy). I bet that surprises you, just like when I will tell you ordinary people (like you or I) have stockpiled it (I have witnessed it). And you are absolutely right - it is just as bad as antibiotic abuse/overuse. But to their defense, for the "idiot" to get to the product, a Physician is involved (or NP).
Dehydration is part of the problem, but using Gatorade (without watering it down - 50% Gatorade and 50% water) will just add to the dehydration. Yes you will replace electrolytes, but the high sugar content will just go right out in urine (stealing more water).
And staying in bed/home when you are truly sick, whether common cold, flu, pneumonia etc is half the battle. How many of us have gone to work sick because of low sick days, no sick days, afraid for our jobs or can't afford to miss work?

posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 12:34 PM
Hi. I'm from SARS-town CA... couple blocks away. Before Dr. Basra became ill, I heard her speak at a Public Health forum in 2005. Very helpful lady. Answered all questions. Anyway, the subject came up of hemotherapy in regard to HIV/flu and other virii while the body was showing heavy viral-load with lots of CK waste.

No substitute for common sense preparedness and public education in the infection chain.

Both Dr. Lowe and she spoke of some remarkable successes by changing out a great deal of the "dirty" blood and replacing with known good whole blood. Saved more than a few SARS victims when things were at it's worst. I'd not thought of it again until I read this thread.

I can't find any really good data specifically flu-pneumonia written. It's the pneumonia/dehydration that gets you. Really weird when you look at a CX-R of yourself and you can see the lobes and one is full. We keep some Tam' around but haven't needed it... to use it "prophylactically" may accelerate mutation; those that survive build resistance. Catch-22.


[edit on 3-2-2008 by V Kaminski]

posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 04:43 PM
Every time I've gotten the flu, I never took "Tamiflu" or anything like it.

I've always been told that illness caused by a virus, such as the Flu, has to run its' course, that antibiotics are only effective on bacteria caused illnesses, which are the most common kind of illness.

It sounds like some folks have been using "Tamiflu" every single time they've gotten a flu-like virus in the past two decades, and it is starting to show in the percentage of the population that actually takes the stuff every time they get the flu.

Because as far as I am concerned, considering i've never had the stuff, even if i did catch a resistant flu-like virus, such as the one in this article, and it was so bad that i did use Tamiflu for the first time evaar, I think it would still be an effective treatment. The reason being that the stuff is foreign to my body, I'm a Tamiflu virgin, lol. The first time is always the most effective, well at least with these kinds of medicines. Others, such as anti-depressants for example, must be taken for weeks before they show their effectiveness in combating the depression.

posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 05:33 PM
I think its kinda sickening, to realise many normal healthy people are actually taking that tamiflu for a normal flu virus!

A normal flu wont kill you, unless you have severe immune deficiancy, are very old and weak, or something else is very wrong with you! Any doctor can tell you that.

Hell.. when you get the flu you can almost be sure, not to get it again in years under normal surcomstances, as your immune defence system have allready "memorised" that particular flu virus branch"

I have gotten the flu 3 times in my life, about every 5 - 7 years or so and just let it take its course, while i nurse myself to the fullest.

Go to bed, call in sick, drink alot of fluid, eat what you can, and enjoy some of the books you never got to read or the movies you never got to watch! You can even get your partner to tender you a little, isnt that just great! ofcourse the puking is kinda nasty, but a few days away from work arent always bad for you either.

A normal flu lasts about 5 - 7 days, how hard can it be?

posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 05:42 PM
I saw Dr Phil on Letterman the other night. He said he had a flu from hades around the holidays. He still looked a little blanched. I had the same before thanksgiving and it cost me a job. It lasted for 4 weeks.
It was so bad I prayed for death. No lie.
Sorry bluess. This was 'no normal flu'. I lost 14 lbs in 4 weeks. I went nearly two weeks eating nothing, because I couldn't keep anything down. I drank water, lot of it, which helped because I hate the dry heaves.

[edit on 3-2-2008 by jpm1602]

posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 10:08 PM
reply to post by runetang

Tamiflu is not an antibiotic, it is an antiviral - but your point is well taken. Tamiflu is used ALOT more than it should be. It will be of no use when a true pandemic hits and there is resistance to it.

VK -Now that is interesting. So they just swapped a patients blood with a few liters from the blood bank? It would lower viral load BUT the virus would still remain and do damage - it resides in alot of other tissues. But lowering the cytokine amount may be useful.

Bluess - In short, yes, if you are a healthy 10-64 year old, you have nothing to worry about.

JPM - Dude that sucks. Glad you are better. The flu has just started to hammer Michigan and what you describe is what is going on up here.

There are stats that I will be looking for tomorrow at work. It is eye opening. It is the number of flu deaths per year and pneumonia deaths per year. Check back for a surprise.

posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 10:21 PM
Nevermind - I found it now. It is the final stats from 2004 (most current available)

On page 32 on the PDF -

Influenza Deaths : 1100
Pneumonia Deaths : 58564

The flu isn't a killer - its when it festers and pneumonia sets in opportunistically. The bacteria that usually is at fault is Strep. pneumoniae.

Age 75-84 and Age 85+ are the biggest contributers to those high death totals.
Flu = 255 deaths without those age groups.
Pneumonia = 13031 without those age groups.

Moral of the story - if you are over 55 get your flu and pneumonia shot.

posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 10:41 PM

Originally posted by runetang
Because as far as I am concerned, considering i've never had the stuff, even if i did catch a resistant flu-like virus, such as the one in this article, and it was so bad that i did use Tamiflu for the first time evaar, I think it would still be an effective treatment.

But if the influenza strain that causes the pandemic is resistant to the drug it really wont have mattered if you had taken the drug or not.

posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 03:02 AM
Thanks for that HD 21...I'm just real happy to still be in the land of the living, it truly was touch and go, and I keep myself in relatively good health. No lance armstrong tho for sure.
I remember waking up one morning with my two dogs hovering over me.
I skanked too. I smelled horrible. It was a rough ride.

[edit on 4-2-2008 by jpm1602]

posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 04:54 AM
reply to post by jpm1602

Isn't it amazing how illness puts things into perspective. I bet it was bad - I haven't had the flu in 15 years now (knockin on wood), and what I remember of it, it was brutal.
Now, those stats I posted above illustrate a "normal" flu season.
The 1918 Spanish Flu wiped out people that were healthy from age 16-55. If another Pandemic on that scale or specifically H5N1 were to spread human to human, we'd be toast.
Tamiflu has lost its "magical" touch...Plans B, C and D really aren't too perfect either.
If you have some spare time - read up on the public health crisis from the 1918 Spanish Flu. It will scare the snot out of you. It would make you realize how unprepared we are now and how FEMA's emergency powers or martial law would be declared. Think about it - 1918 no air travel, no real vehicle transport. With today's travel, the only way to Quarantine a nation would be to lock us down (like in the movie Outbreak).

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