Originally posted by kangjia57

There’s a big difference. Freedom fighters fight invaders who have invaded their lands illegally.
CIA supported Terrorists kill civilians for nothing to give US an excuse to stay for longer.

And its common (and obviously excepted) for these same "freedom fighters" to kill innocent men women and children, to try and destabilize a country that just might have a brighter future?

So that justifies US for killing over a million more?

Bogus figures by a man who is reaching. I sense desperation from you.

Just for the record, ive talked to an iraqi girl, and even though things are bad
Yes we know what Iraqis prefer.

Under Saddam: Criticize him and you die.

Saddam, along with his sons, did whatever they felt like doing. So long as they were patrolling the streets, you weren't safe even then.

Under US/Iraqi democracy: Walking out of home could be the last trip of your life.

Thanks to suicide bombers - i mean, "freedom fighters" who target innocent Iraqis, yes. To them, its a small price to pay to destabilize a country.

Yes it’s a guerrilla warfare.4000 dead and thousands injured just because of That is pretty impressive if you ask me.

If anything, that is a relatively amazing number considering that it is guerrilla warfare. Im surprised and amazed its not more.

Im sure your going to cling to whatever you can, though.

So you Bush supporters do?

Ahh yes, the last line of defense for the defenseless. Weak attempts to attack someone through stereotypical generalizations that has absolutely nothing to do with the current debate! Way to take (you tried) attention off the fact that you cannot debate me.

Reply to West Coast

And its common (and obviously excepted) for these same "freedom fighters" to kill innocent men women and children, to try and destabilize a country thatjust might have a brighter future?

Keep repeating the same thing.We all know CIA is behind the mass bombings killing civilians to keep the US getting free oil.

Bogus figures by a man who is reaching. I sense desperation from you.

No I am not running out of oil so I am not 'desperate'.

Thanks to suicide bombers - i mean, "freedom fighters" who target innocent Iraqis, yes. To them, its a small price to pay to destabilize a country.

Yes thanks to CIA who keep kidnapping families and use their members to commit suicide bombings to save the rest of the family.

If anything, that is a relatively amazing number considering that it is guerrilla warfare. Im surprised and amazed its not more.

Yes with all the hi-tech stuff US got I didn’t expect more than a 100 dead during the war.But thousands?Shame..

Ahh yes, the last line of defense for the defenseless. Weak attempts to attack someone through stereotypical generalizations that has absolutely nothing to do with the current debate! Way to take (you tried) attention off the fact that you cannot debate me.

Debate you? Some one who thinks that crawling under the tank and blowing it up is cowardice. One thing is clear US can never fight a guerrilla warfare. And it’s been proven time and time again.

Since my last post was removed by admin, I'll rephrase: Those nations that invade another sovereign nation cannot be surprised when the people of that nation retaliate, with what ever they have. I'm from the republic of Ireland we were invaded and oppressed by the british for 700 years and we're finally almost rid of them. America is an invader and an oppressor, like the nazis, like the british empire, like all the other power hungry savages that have torn the hearts out of other countries. America tears the heart of of a nation and all the pro military heads cheer them on from the sidelines.
Some of the comments on this thread remind me of the support Hitler was getting during the Nuremburg rally, the utter mindlessness of it all. I hope the invaders get their comeuppance, they deserve everything they get.

Originally posted by neformore
Hmm.

Have we really gone that far down the road that people getting shot to pieces can be watched with cold social commentary, smilies and sarcasm?

If so, I kind of fear for humanity.

That ain't no video game.

I agree. My post about it reminding me of Apocolypse Now wasnt meant to trivialize the killings. It was meant to point out how callous wars are. I have been having a bit of a lively "debate" about this type of mentality in the "are the 19 hijackers eligible for compensation" thread. Many of the respondants suggest that guilt by death is a good idea and is "American". Its all fine and dandy till they come for you or yours.BANG! GUILTY!, Lets go find more "suspects". SCARY

Originally posted by willywagga
America is an invader and an oppressor, like the nazis, like the british empire, like all the other power hungry savages that have torn the hearts out of other countries. America tears the heart of of a nation and all the pro military heads cheer them on from the sidelines.

...... I hope the invaders get their comeuppance, they deserve everything they get.

Really?

Well, I'm certain that your relatives weren't thinking thoughts like that during World War Two.

De Oppresso Liber

You're certain, are you really, how amazingly perceptive of you, you don't have a clue what my relatives were or weren't thinking during WWII. And right now, right this very time the US IS is the invader and the oppressor, the US is the one committing the war crimes not the Germans, this is so clear to see, admit it. Time for Americans to admit that they invade and they oppress, go on admit it. A blind man can see that.



[edit on 2-2-2008 by willywagga]

Originally posted by deltaboy


As you can see they are just riding in their truck wearing civilian clothing. No weapons until the last moment.



Mod edit: to change . to a ?. This is far more descriptive of the content.

[edit on 2/2/2008 by kinglizard]

The above is a contradiction. If they were innocent civilians, they wouldn't be carrying weapons.

Anyway, I admit I've only read a handful of posts on here. Most of those I have read seem to be going off topic or people being downright childish.

Now back on topic...

Who has info on why these individuals were being tracked to begin with? What intel was there? Was there a certain vehicle that was being sought after? A certain group? Were they involved in an attack?

What reliable info does anyone have here?

Before passing judgement to condemn, some people should find out why this attack occurred to begin with.

To me it seems like there was a reason why the attack took place against these individuals.

edit: removed video

[edit on 2-2-2008 by Midav]

Originally posted by Midav
The above is a contradiction. If they were innocent civilians, they wouldn't be carrying weapons.

I think the original poster was being sarcastic with his title. As you probably read, they added the "?" and that did seem to help.

Originally posted by v01i0

How do you think guys with most basic weaponry can meet toe to toe your superarmored shiny fleet of whatevers?

So you agree with me? Thanks...

Behold, you are just classical schoolbook example of double-thinkers: "They can not meet our standards of engagement."

Im not exactly sure this is qualified for a proper "put down". Whatever floats your boat there "pal".

You talk about your standards of engagement, I'll talk about mine, see They fight with whatever means they have, so do you. Talking about toe to toe and standards of engagement in this context has no truth value at all, it is purely relativistic remark.

Its all a matter of opinion. I am excepting of all views, even though i happen to think many to be wrong.

Im not exactly sure why you are responding to me, because you are agreeing with everything Ive said...

The terrorists rules of engagement is of one that values nobody's life, not the innocent children they hurt by either killing them, or, there father, mother, and siblings. They simply do not care, they are brainwashed, illiterate monkeys.

Why are these freedom fighters killing their own people?

I really see most points in how they need to fight the US military the way they do and I agree that is their best method. There is no way for them to stand toe to toe, hell even China could not do that so these guys would not have a chance either.

The part that gets me is the hypocritical stands so many take. First, the US goal was to remove Saddam and allow the Iraqis to govern themselves without a tyrant. Second, we would have been out a long time ago if they actually did form a stabilized government. Third, 90% of the fighting is NOT against the US military, and that fighting is the ONLY thing holding back a better life for the Iraqi people.

Anyone can call them freedom fighters and the US the invaders, but nomenclature means little since the fighting continues to this day. YES, America caused it all, AND we never should have removed Saddam, BUT the only reason for not removing that evil dictator is because the Iraqis cannot handle the freedom given them. Instead of joining together and having a great country with a TRILLION dollar given to try and make it happen they would rather fight to the death to just put another Saddam 2.0 in place.

This is America’s failure in not seeing this situation, and we should have just let Saddam do what he wanted without any involvement. YES, there is much good going on in Iraq as I write this, and unless any of you have actually been there like I have please don’t give me that CIA conspiracy crap, BUT honestly all the good was just not worth it in the end.

Their freedom that they do not want is not worth 4000 dead American, triple gas prices, and the devalued dollar from the 1.5 trillion we might as well have flushed down the toilet to help them. YES we F’ed up and now we are paying the price.

But what about these “freedom” fighters who could just as easily vote their views and party into power. Well they do what they know and all they know is to kill their way into power. They do not want to form a bipartisan government when they can just kill off all those that do not agree with them. There is no freedom with that mentality. Even worst, they allow insurgents into their country that are not fighting for their freedom but to enslave the masses with their own Saddam 2.0 pick, and these insurgents see that the only way to have a chance at that is to maintain the chaos.

All this is how simple the real truth is…

Originally posted by kangjia57
Keep repeating the same thing.We all know CIA is behind the mass bombings killing civilians to keep the US getting free oil.

As if that is a well corroborated claim, Mr. kangjia..

No I am not running out of oil so I am not 'desperate'.

I ask that you do not bore me with your incompetent sarcasm.

Yes thanks to CIA who keep kidnapping families and use their members to commit suicide bombings to save the rest of the family.

Its this type of brainwashed attitude that is getting many of your brothers and sisters who share the same beliefs, killed over there in Iraq. Perhaps a reality check?

Yes with all the hi-tech stuff US got I didn’t expect more than a 100 dead during the war.But thousands?Shame..

So you do hold the US military in high regard then? Either way, your opinion is worthless on the matter.

And the US did lose a few hundred during the war. The war is over, the conflict however, is not. We are there and at the disposal and request of the Iraqis.

Debate you? Some one who thinks that crawling under the tank and blowing it up is cowardice.

Buddy, I assure you, it is not me who is in desperate need of a reality check...

One thing is clear US can never fight a guerrilla warfare. And it’s been proven time and time again.

You are clearly biased, there for making your opinion worthless on the matter.

[edit on 2-2-2008 by West Coast]

Originally posted by willywagga
And right now, right this very time the US IS is the invader and the oppressor,

Well yes we are the invader but we are not the oppressor. The oppressors are those preventing the country from stabilizing and forming a bipartisan government. Big difference there buddy.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
The part that gets me is the hypocritical stands so many take. First, the US goal was to remove Saddam and allow the Iraqis to govern themselves without a tyrant. Second, we would have been out a long time ago if they actually did form a stabilized government. Third, 90% of the fighting is NOT against the US military, and that fighting is the ONLY thing holding back a better life for the Iraqi people.

This is America’s failure in not seeing this situation, and we should have just let Saddam do what he wanted without any involvement. YES, there is much good going on in Iraq as I write this, and unless any of you have actually been there like I have please don’t give me that CIA conspiracy crap, BUT honestly all the good was just not worth it in the end.

All this is how simple the real truth is…

Dude, you hit the nail on the head. I've always wondered "WTF?" Once they get a government up and running, the US will leave the country. But they'd rather renew decades old fights and tribalism and paybacks and destroy their country.

I think Saddam had to go. He was a dictator, tyrant, and all around pain in the ass.

Mistakes were made, that's for sure. We shouldn't have disbanded the Army, and no one really had a clue about setting up a new government. Of course, hindsight is 20/20.

What do you mean, you don't believe in the CIA conspiracy crap?

Originally posted by willywagga
You're certain, are you really, how amazingly perceptive of you, you don't have a clue what my relatives were or weren't thinking during WWII. And right now, right this very time the US IS is the invader and the oppressor, the US is the one committing the war crimes not the Germans, this is so clear to see, admit it. Time for Americans to admit that they invade and they oppress, go on admit it. A blind man can see that.
[edit on 2-2-2008 by willywagga]

You're right. I don't know what your relatives were thinking. Let me rephrase that to be, "A lot of Europeans do not believe the US Military are oppressors and invaders."

And we aren't oppressing. If we were, do you think that we'd be letting them vote? You think that they'd have to freedom to protest US troops being in their country?