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A pair of Apaches murdering a couple of innocent civilians?

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posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 12:16 PM
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Yep. Just alot of giggling at people's death.

I do not understand this war, and don't want to understand it. It is only by sheer ignorance and denial that we as Americans can't bring ourselves to watch videos of little girls being accidentally shot while playing on the street etc. It's only by sheer ignorance that we can watch the same video of insurgents vs. military and IGNORE all the cases where legitimate innocent, helpless children, get shot to death or blown apart.





posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 12:22 PM
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I should not even post here as I am non military and therefore have no real insight to the delema or situation on the original Op vid. I will tell you that I forgot to turn up the volume and so watched it without sound and had a different take on the situation. I wondered who the men were if they were American or what, and then watching unbiased, I figured that they were too suspicious acting and must be up to no good. I was not even aware that they were being watched through a scope for the first little bit. I don't know, if I lived in Afghanistan or where ever that was I would want to have guns for protection legal or not. So some guys buying guns is not too surprising. What was that truck they first passed and slowed down to? Did they deposit something into it? As far as the men dying, I would say from the video, they knew the risk, were nervous and it ended badly.

BTW you NEED to get the staff to change the thread title;


[edit on 2-2-2008 by antar]



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 01:10 PM
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The op of this thread is a massive warmonger,he did this to get many views.
I for one cant believe he actualy means a word he says on this thread.

replying to the gentleman(sorry cant remember your name)about the fire power (or lack of it).Yeahh thats what surprised me,to see the front get hit like that and someone gets out the car!Even when one is hit he doesnt blow into chunks.

How do clips like this make it onto the net?do the pentagon leak?

Concerning that bradly and bomb-wow.Have to have balls of steel to get that close to one!Reminds me of that vid clip of an Iraqi doing the same to a tank positioned just outside a base.



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 01:12 PM
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I think they call it the rules of engagement, and perhaps this has changed, in that what u see is what you get, sure, but tell me, were the enemy and i use this word as its how they are perceived, engaged in any hostile act of aggression towards the Helicopter crew, or were the crew just out on the look out for some action, when u listen to the audio does any one sense that one particular crew member seems to be coming on just a bit too excited. similar to let me at em let me at em, rat a tat tat rat a tat tat. OK if they were being menaced with a rocket launcher, or similar, sure then lets get it on, but this, is just heart breakng to see the value put on another persons life, but thats war for you, something we all voted for at the outset. well most of us. and i am sure that there are in circulation much more disturbing videos of situations. And i think i am right in asking the question that the crew were not only justified in doing this, so it only goes to say i hope that in their conscience at some time in their lives they will reflect when they have too.



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 01:41 PM
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posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 02:08 PM
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It is important to keep in mind that the video does not show the whole story. The target of the Apache attack was probably being actively hunted after they had attacked off-camera someplace else. Classic geurilla tactic. Hit your target, then try to blend back in with the civilian population.
Don't blame the Apache crews for doing their jobs.

Having said that, one does have to wonder what American firepower is even doing there in the first place. Still looking for WMD's or OBL?



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 02:20 PM
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I am very dissapointed by deltaboy in his selection of a title for this post.

There are 2 assumptions being made here, and they are probably both wrong.

To me these guys look far from innocent, but I'm no terrorist expert. The thing you have to think about in veiwing this video is, more than likely, it's not the whole video. The Apaches could have been following these perps for some time, and viewed something incriminating. We weren't there, so we don't know.

Where does it confirm they were Iraqis? It is proven that much of the "Iraqi Insurgents" and "Al Qaeda in Iraq" are jihadists from neighboring countries. We don't even know for sure that this is in Iraq? It could be in Afghanistan?

I would even venture a bet that it was Iraqis who informed the authorities of the illegal activity that preceded this video.

I would imagine the most difficult part of a war like this would be to identify a faceless enemy. This here looks to me like a clean kill, and that there will be a few less innocent citizens to have their heads chopped off.



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by kangjia57

Freedom fighters attack invaders.CIA controlled organisations attack civilians to make sure US stays and drains out free oil.


Freedom fighters..insurgents/terrorist.. whats the difference?



Would any of this happen if the US didnt invade in first place?


Yes, Saddam and his sons would continue killing and raping that country by themselves.

Just for the record, ive talked to an iraqi girl, and even though things are bad over there, she seems to think they were much worse under saddams reign of terror.



So how did 4000 US soldiers managed to die? Did they all commit suicide?


With how many years of fighting? That is still a rather small number. Especially when compared to insurgents killed.. Your looking into the tens of thousands there..

And your video, is an immature attempt at starting a pissing contest.. You sir, have no morals.

And I hardly consider the IEDs and suicide bombers as men who have the intestinal fortitude to take on the US military.

Man for man, we are better...



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 02:56 PM
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I think deltaboy was being sarcastic with his thread title. I could be wrong though..



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 03:00 PM
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I changed the title to a question by replacing the . with a ? to more accurately reflect the content.



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by kinglizard
 


Ahhhhh, the miracle of punctuation.

It really does change the title of this post from ludicrous to perfect.

Thanks-KS



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by noangels
The op of this thread is a massive warmonger,he did this to get many views.
I for one cant believe he actualy means a word he says on this thread.

replying to the gentleman(sorry cant remember your name)about the fire power (or lack of it).Yeahh thats what surprised me,to see the front get hit like that and someone gets out the car!Even when one is hit he doesnt blow into chunks.


Im pretty sure I saw a torso flying in one of those clips... Also take into consideration the distance the apaches are firing from. That in itself does negate the overall accuracy along with the "power", for lack of better word....but thats not the point, this is a conflict people..its not going to be pretty. Bad things are going to happen.

The insurgents look like common folk there. Lets not be to brash here with our comments. We dont understand fully whats going on over there.



How do clips like this make it onto the net?do the pentagon leak?


More then likely the soldiers asked for the video themselves, and published it themselves...But i dont know.


Concerning that bradly and bomb-wow.Have to have balls of steel to get that close to one!Reminds me of that vid clip of an Iraqi doing the same to a tank positioned just outside a base.


You call it balls, i call it cowardice..

[edit on 2-2-2008 by West Coast]



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 03:12 PM
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Reply to West Coast



Freedom fighters..insurgents/terrorist.. whats the difference?


There’s a big difference. Freedom fighters fight invaders who have invaded their lands illegally.
CIA supported Terrorists kill civilians for nothing to give US an excuse to stay for longer.



Yes, Saddam and his sons would continue killing and raping that country by themselves.


So that justifies US for killing over a million more?



Just for the record, ive talked to an iraqi girl, and even though things are bad over there, she seems to think they were much worse under saddams reign of terror.


Yes we know what Iraqis prefer.

Under Saddam: Criticize him and you die.

Under US/Iraqi democracy: Walking out of home could be the last trip of your life.



With how many years of fighting? That is still a rather small number. Especially when compared to insurgents killed.. Your looking into the tens of thousands there..


Yes it’s a guerrilla warfare.4000 dead and thousands injured just because of That is pretty impressive if you ask me.



You sir, have no morals.


So you Bush supporters do?




Man for man, we are better...


Yes we know how Manly US soldiers are once the armour has gone.



[edit on 2-2-2008 by kangjia57]



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by West Coast
 




How on earth can you call an Iraqi who sneaks up on a bradly with a bomb(and then blows it up)a coward!I would love to know
Your troops over there have the protection of the APC,and tanks to shelter from the enemy.The enemy has ak47's,flip flops and thats it!

to be honest mate the men on your aircraft carriers are cowards if you follow your logic,those Iraqis are worth lots more than your sailor boys(worth loads more than are useless lot who cry when their ipods are taken by Iranians!)

So come on tell me why the insurgents are cowards?I spose there cowards when they use snipers too.never mind that we use snipers as well

I guess you call any one who strikes out at your broken war machine a coward,fair enough but when i see someone walk up to a bradly or a tank and place a bomb under it the last thing i think about is cowards.



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 03:22 PM
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Kangja
Just give up!!! Not a lot of people have respect for muslims!!! You live in the UK and know this. It's because you and your people try to abuse the systems that are in place, like constantly trying to sue people over racial discrimination. Like for example the muslims women who tryed to get a job as a hair dresser,www.dailymail.co.uk... It's ridiculous!!! You never hear of black or polish people etc. doing stuff like this.
It was also sad the way you posted a vid the probable killing of people. You and your people need to chill out, like the deputy Iraqi prime minister said after a visit to Blackpool mosque, " Britain Muslims are too extreme".



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 03:36 PM
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Reply to SKUNK2



Just give up!!!


I have Not been taught to ‘give up’. If I feel I am right than I will speak out.



Not a lot of people have respect for muslims!!!


Yes I know that. Thanks for making it clear.



You and your people need to chill out, like the deputy Iraqi prime minister said after a visit to Blackpool mosque, " Britain Muslims are too extreme".


Well what do you want us to do? Go to the local bar or club and get pissed and abused later?
OR do you want Muslim women to wear short miniskirts and make themselves look all attractive and have relations with all sorta men?
OR do you want us to change our religious scriptures like Christians did to suit their desires as time went along?

If Muslims haven’t ‘chilled out’ for past 1400 years Than what makes you think they will ‘chill out’ now?

I guarantee you that Muslims Won't Change even a million years from today.


[edit on 2-2-2008 by kangjia57]



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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hey skunk lots of people here in the UK have respect for everyone,no matter their faith or colour!I am from the south and I have never met any extreme muslims,all the ones I have met have been very polite.


There are going to be bad apples in all the groups who make up society,Muslims are the same as any other group

But now of course with this bogus war on terror the closet racists can come out and vent there fury at them.The more this war goes on the more it seems to me like a war on Islam,by the religious maniacs over the pond who see them as their natural enemy.So muslims milk our benafit system then?big deal plenty of other races do,chavs,ect,ect.

Westcoast-Yes I know the apache was a long distance away,with auto range on it should have hit its target.If it doesnt hit its target then the weapon designers have got a big problem on their hands,friendly fire incidents could easliy arrise.
From this and other clips i have noticed some wild shots missing the target(in the Iraqi tractor-insurgents clip you can hear the guns blazing but cant see where those bullets are going-untill he is told to put auto range on!)could be someone in another field getting shot up,its not good enough those weapon systems should be able to hit the target every time.If its pilot error,then they need retraining



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by Becker44
Quite simply the single most moronic thread title in ATS history!
Please feel free to pause the video as these guys try and cover their weapons. Crystal clear and not innocent civilians by any means.

I would have to echo those sentiments
clearly that was an RPG being pointed at the helo.
If you can't see that, then you need thicker glasses
what kind of innocent civilians are gonna have
an RPG handy in the back of their pickup ???
and everybody else was guilty by association
they were in the truck

case closed

good job by the pilots by the way



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 03:52 PM
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Shame really one point in reference the Apache crew seem to be doing their jobs, which is what a. to fly a helicopter or b. to shoot destroy and kill people. or perhaps its both, but either way the logical answer is not to draw conclusions so fast on only half a story, and the other point, and lets put looks to one side for a moment, how does a headscarf in any way shape or form change the way a hairdresser cuts hair answers on a post card pls.



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by noangels
How on earth can you call an Iraqi who sneaks up on a bradly with a bomb(and then blows it up)a coward!I would love to know
Your troops over there have the protection of the APC,and tanks to shelter from the enemy.The enemy has ak47's,flip flops and thats it!


And they (the enemy) are being slaughtered because of this disadvantage.... I make no bones about that.

IEDs, and suicide bombing, is a sign of desperation from an enemy that can not meet us toe to toe, they can not meet our standards of engagement. That is a fact, I think we all know that. Whats cowardice IMO is the whole concept of it. And killing via suicide bombing, and kidnapping innocent men, women, and children is also something that these same "brave" men do. So yes, I think its simple logic. They are cowards.


to be honest mate the men on your aircraft carriers are cowards if you follow your logic


That is a tactful advantage that is not easily acquired. Not cowardice. Aircraft carriers are MASSIVE. Especially super carriers. They are out there in the wide open, 1,115ft of moving sovereign US territory. If you so wish to engage them, you know where they are.. They will be ready.

Technology makes humans more efficient. Remember that. We use not only our "hands" but our brains to kill the enemy.


,those Iraqis are worth lots more than your sailor boys


Well, thats a matter of opinion. We obviously know where you stand on yours.

And based off of this quote and another one below, you obviously believe in inequality amongst man, something Nazi Germany believed in also.

And, are you ok with innocent men women and children being slaughtered in crowded market places, weddings , parades, etc. by these same "innocent Iraqis" (the naive term you used) who are so "valiant" in there effort to kill as many americans as they can? (notice the sarcasm.) Just which side are they truly fighting for? I happen to think neither..


(worth loads more than are useless lot who cry when their ipods are taken by Iranians!)


No man, women, or child is any more important then the next. (again, believing that all man is unequal.. you represent your side, and all who believe in it, rather poorly.)


So come on tell me why the insurgents are cowards?


What would you call someone who went up to you in a crowded place, punched you in the mouth real quick, and ran off back into the crowd?

Those are the same tactics employed by the terrorists..


I spose there cowards when they use snipers too.never mind that we use snipers as well


Thats conventional warfare. I have no problem with it. However, posting videos of US service men being shot by snipers, all for the sake of producing propaganda is cowardice.


I guess you call any one who strikes out at your broken war machine a coward,


Broken? Feel free to elaborate...


fair enough but when i see someone walk up to a bradly or a tank and place a bomb under it the last thing i think about is cowards.


I bet... Coming from you....cant say that it surprises me.



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