Chomsky: US acts like Nazi Germany

It's a foreign corporation! I've been saying this forever! The "UNITED STATES" was turned into a corporation in 1871, and sold to the IMF in 1944. It is no surprise aggression is its forte.

Chomsky is saying it has and continues to be hideously deceptive and violent.

If anyone cares they can look up the 14 steps to Fascism and they will soon see exactly what is happening inside the US. And America is not owned or run by Americans, that all ended at Pearl Harbour.

Watch the upcoming FISA (telecom immunity) vote this Monday in the US Senate.

www.salon.com.../opinion/greenwald

IMHO this vote will be a pretty good barometer of Fascism in the Ol' USA.

I don't agree with Chomsky or Polanyi on everything but I agree 100% that the USA does "act like" Nazi Germany bigtime. I also happen to agree with Chomsky on his position towards Israeli foreign policy and believe the two are inextrincabley linked in some sort of downward death spiral of morality and ethics.

Sad but true, I used to support American ethos... no longer, it's as busted and corrupt as NASCAR or wrestling or boxing or UFC. Maybe if O'Bama or McCain becomes Prezzy that might change my opinion if new policy suits a new rational beginning... maybe Chomsky's too. I have some hope but not much confidence in the US or her international friends and accomplices at this time. Times change.

Vic

[edit on 2-2-2008 by V Kaminski]

We may have defeated the German Nation, however we took the core of the evil that it produced and transplanted it here. We fed and watered it and boy did it ever grow.

Now the biggest threat to world peace the American people face and indeed the entire world faces is not Osama, it is America itself.

This is not a democratic thing or a Republican thing this is an EVIL thing, and this evil has been flourishing in the shadows of our democracy for 50+ years now.

Chomsky is right and anyone with just a little grey matter in thier head knows this as fact.

Please don't take this the wrong way.

As soon as I posted this thread,I had misgivings about the subject matter.

It's easy to look from the outside in and to make (sometimes false) parallels.

I don't like shrub - that's no secret.

BUT - I would never accuse him of having the same kind of agenda as that seen during the nazi era.

Bad - yes
misguided - yes
self-serving - yes
stupid - perhaps
goebbels - no

Bud, you raise an interesting point but remember before Hitler went on his rampage many Germans thought what he and his gang did for the country was great. He built up the economy, hunted down dissnetesr and others, gave the people their pride back and promised them the Earth, but he failed to tell them it would cost them the Earth.

Just as then like now, we have PNAC proud and patriotict Americans who think the WOT is great and all of the rest of the flag waving crap. The similarites are there, try to imagine being in Germany in the early thirties and what that was like, most Germans wont have known what Hilter was really up to till it was to late and then they were commited.

The same is happening now in the US, we need space, we need resources, everybodies out to get us, we need to be stronger and we need to rule the world. Its the same old story being played out again, the US already has Iran, Syria, Korea in its sights for conflict followed up with China and possibly Russia. History has a habit of repeating itself and the reason for that is because the people who control it all have been doing it for a long time.

I can recommend a good book, its called the Nazis, a warning from history, read that and see what is happening in America

The problem with statements with this is that people immediately try to draw parallels literally. So, when people see America = Nazi Germany all you hear is "But where are the death camps?". The truth is fascism is much more subtle, take this quote:

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Sounds like the babbelings of some no good pinko leftie right? actually this was straight from Goebbels, he advocated this stance and didnt deplore it. It was a means of controlling the masses to allow you to do as you will. repulsive and disgusting as his actions were he was, within his warped field, a genius. perhaps the best quote, and most appropriate, is this from Goering:

"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders . . . All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism."

US = Facism does not mean Nazi Germany within continental United States. American power is through a blend of neo-colonialism and hegemony. It takes a lot of subtlety to hoodwink the globe, do not be dissuaded by sweeping statements and generalisations.

I still take issue with this.

There are parallels with many governments.

I don't think we got the worst of them.
As bad as shrub is, I'd rather live with his rules than Mugabe's.

And as bad as prudence is, I'd rather have his version of freedom than dubya's.

The difference is that we can mount civilian political protest if we want to.

Instead, we choose to treat them with a steady sarcasm until we get fed up of taking the pee.

Then we elect a new government to do it to.

"The Game is Afoot"

My Arse

Originally posted by Elijio
reply to post by deltaboy

 

Replace Jews with Muslims...
I won't say they are the same(US and Nazi Germany), but there are some similarities imo.

Really? Show me anywhere in the US where Muslims are being rounded up, blamed for all of the problems in the US and are being held in concentration camps? I am sure that my manager who is muslim would like to know where to avoid living.

reply to post by khunmoon


Thanks for proving my point.

And for the record I'm against the killing of innocent people no matter what side of the issue is coming from. Is that some people here think that terrorism was created and invented on 9-11, which is not the case.



[edit on 2-2-2008 by Bunch]

Originally posted by budski
Whilst I understand his reasoning, this seems more than a little harsh.

This is not just a condemnation of the current administration, but is directed at various administrations going back decades and is aimed at the disparity between political foreign policy speeches and the actuality of those foreign policies.

I don't like bush and his cronies, but to compare them to nazi's seems a bit over the top.

However, I would like to read the whole speech before making a proper judgement - I just haven't been able to find it yet.

www.presstv.ir
(visit the link for the full news article)

Noam Chomsky slams US empire building in the last decades. The US has become an antidemocratic belligerent force in the world, displaying nothing but contempt for the rule of law and human rights. Also, the level of lies and propaganda to which the american public is being subjected, is comparable to that of Nazi Germany. I don't think the parallel is far-fetched.

Naomi Wolfe's book, "The End of America" lists 10 points for a fascist govt.:

Bush's fascist America, in 10 easy steps:
(My points are in parenthesis)

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy
(911 - created enmity of Muslims.)

2. Create a gulag
(Halliburton received a $1 billion (I think that's right) contract to
build "detention centers", whatever those are for.)

3. Develop a thug cast
(Police have become thugs, as evidence by all the tasering by police stories, just on ATS alone)

4. Set up an internal surveillance system
(Done)

5. Harass citizens' groups
(The Quakers and other peace groups have been defined as terrorists and are harassed)

6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release
(Guantanamo for one, but there are many other examples)

7. Target key individuals
(no-fly lists, terrorist lists, and laws have been enacted specifically against "eco-terrorists" and animal rights groups; not to mention many peace and anti-war activists have been harassed)

8. Control the press
Done

9. Dissent equals treason
The govt has defined patriotism as someone who never disagrees with their country's policies, no matter what. Anti-dissenter laws have been enacted - one states that political activists, protesters and other dissenters can lose all of their property, money and other assets.

10. Suspend the rule of law
They have, in effect, already done this, simply by making laws that
take away our rights.

All of these things have already been enacted, including suspending the rule of law - we have all been stripped of our rights and we no longer have basic rights such as habeas corpus, right to a trial, etc.
Naomi Wolfe says she was inspired to write her book, because of a friend she had who's parents survived Nazi Germany. This woman told her how scared she was, because the U.S. was starting to look like Nazi Germany. Just because we haven't heard of people being carted off to the camps, doesn't mean it isn't happening - after all the German people had a news blackout, and most Germans knew nothing about the camps until the war was over.
All of the signs are there if you are willing to do research.

One last thing: Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush, was working for some of the elites during WW2, sending money to the Nazi cause, pretty much setting Hitler up in office. After the war, he was accused of trading with the enemy. (10 yrs. later he became a Senator) He was the one who ran Operation Paperclip, bringing over many scientists, psychiatrists, etc. from Nazi Germany when the war ended, as has been previously pointed out. His son, about 10 to 15 years later goes to work for the CIA. Yes, this has been documented. (Note: I believe it was Poppy Bush who arranged the assasination of JFK - there are a number of reasons to believe this. Just one of them is that Bush was in Dallas the day that JFK was shot, but says he can't remember where he was. Who doesn't remember where they were the day JFK died? See the excellent documentary "JFK II".) The CIA was formed just for the Nazis who came over from America, it gave the Nazi spies a cover.
Can you see where the connection comes in? I think the Nazis just went underground, and are running the U.S.

(edited for clarity - Forestlady)

[edit on 3/2/08 by forestlady]

Hi Forest, you state the truth and facts as they are but I'm affriad that they fall on deaf ears, one wonders how long it will be before the US goes the full hog on this. That the camps we have heard about will be filled with the unpatriotic and such like, are the 6 million muslims going to become America's holocaust, is America going to suffer the way Germany and its people did.

I'm concerned that this could be the case and that it has all been planned just as it was before, I wish the people could wake up to this and act but also the international community should step in, but would it work as the parasites who run the show have hold of the puppet strings.

I agree with Chomskys' assertion. However, does he think this is breaking news? I have thought for a long time that he is either knowingly or unkowingly being used as a tool. He also said the same thing during the U.S. involvement in southest asia in the 60's .First he pointed out what was really going on which was obvious to many already. After rallying the "radical free thinkers" , what did he suggest everybody do about it?

NOTHING. Just endless discussion and finger pointing, but he advised that no action be taken to remedy the atrocious behaviour of our government.

He simply led the many he brought together who opposed our policies down empty trails until they got tired of following him.
He is doing the same thing today. He points out the obvious, and blows the trumpet.
When people fall in behind them he will just march them in circles until one by one they lose interest and quit.

Agin he is either doing this intentionally, or those who in charge of whats going on are using his absurd notion of taking no action and giggle while they use him for their own purposes.

Originally posted by ItsHumanNature
I agree with Chomskys' assertion. However, does he think this is breaking news? I have thought for a long time that he is either knowingly or unkowingly being used as a tool. He also said the same thing during the U.S. involvement in southest asia in the 60's .First he pointed out what was really going on which was obvious to many already. After rallying the "radical free thinkers" , what did he suggest everybody do about it?

NOTHING. Just endless discussion and finger pointing, but he advised that no action be taken to remedy the atrocious behaviour of our government.

He simply led the many he brought together who opposed our policies down empty trails until they got tired of following him.
He is doing the same thing today. He points out the obvious, and blows the trumpet.

I think that it is forgotten that Chomsky uses linguistics to study the political landscape. He is not a political commentator. From that perspective he is absolutely right, the patterns of language that have been consistently used by the Bush administration are reminiscent of the Nazi Germany propaganda machine. The administration uses the christian beliefs of the US populace and manipulates it. Just as Nazi Germany used the inherent anti-semitism of the German people, Bush et al use the verbal imagery of the Crusades to justify the destruction of the Islamic people. Same tactics, same game.

This is an interesting thread regarding Chomsky...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I was introduced to it recently and it opened my eyes further to the 'Information war'. I feel that there is a little bitterness that he hasn't suceeded in changing the world, I can understand that, but I also think that he has allowed his own sense of intellectual elitism to hinder any elightenment that he may have otherwise been able to impart. I am still very much thinking about it though.

Originally posted by forestlady
Naomi Wolfe's book, "The End of America" lists 10 points for a fascist govt.:

Bush's fascist America, in 10 easy steps:
(My points are in parenthesis)

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy
(911 - created enmity of Muslims.)

I guess you forgot the 93 WTC bombing by the same group? Or was Clinton behind that one?

2. Create a gulag
(Halliburton received a $1 billion (I think that's right) contract to
build "detention centers", whatever those are for.)

Where? I want to go visit one here in the US.

3. Develop a thug cast
(Police have become thugs, as evidence by all the tasering by police stories, just on ATS alone)

So before Bush there were never Police Brutality cases?

4. Set up an internal surveillance system
(Done)

Link?

5. Harass citizens' groups
(The Quakers and other peace groups have been defined as terrorists and are harassed)

Link? Kent State ring a bell?

6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release
(Guantanamo for one, but there are many other examples)

Gitmo is where people captured in Afghanistan and Iraq, where you know fighting is going on, have been taken. I guess capturing terrorists and enemy combatants must be arbitrary. I suppose we should just treat them like they did Daniel Pearl, would you be ok with that? Seems like its ok for them to treat innocents that way.

7. Target key individuals
(no-fly lists, terrorist lists, and laws have been enacted specifically against "eco-terrorists" and animal rights groups; not to mention many peace and anti-war activists have been harassed)

Lets see a link to that as well.

8. Control the press
Done

How so? Cause i can open up any number of news sites here in the US and read critiques of the Govt. So how are they controlling the press now?

9. Dissent equals treason
The govt has defined patriotism as someone who never disagrees with their country's policies, no matter what. Anti-dissenter laws have been enacted - one states that political activists, protesters and other dissenters can lose all of their property, money and other assets.

And yet there is that wacko group out of Iowa who goes around the country to funerals of brave US Troops who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan protesting them, saying they deserved to die because God hates them for supporting Gays. And they are not arrested. Berkley Ca, has approved a parking space for an anti military group right in front of a USMC recruiting station and has dis invited them from recruiting in the city.
www.foxnews.com...

10. Suspend the rule of law
They have, in effect, already done this, simply by making laws that
take away our rights.

I am curious which of my rights are now gone? I have change NOTHING in my life since 9/11. I still travel freely, go where and when I want to. Tell me what rights are gone?



(edited for clarity - Forestlady)

[edit on 3/2/08 by forestlady]

reply to post by US Monitor


Are you really that blind?

Have you not been paying attention to anything?

The Mainstream media have played most of these stories...

Do the research yourself this time around. You may change your government loving opinion.

Us Monitor, you may well be right you may not have seen any personal changes, but that does not m,aean that things have not changed or will in the future. You can either investigate these matters or you can convince yourself all is well, its a choice.

And as for soldiers dying in Iraq and elsewhere why are they dying why are they even there, have you asked youself that, did Iraq attack America no, did Afganistan no, so why are we there, if you look at the bigger picture and Americas global ambitions all will become much clearer.

I'm sure you've noticed all these signs

'REPORT ANY SUSPICOUS BEHAVIOUR'

popping up everywhere.
Certainly here in the UK and I saw them when I was in the US aswell.
Remind you of Nazi's at all?