Does anyone still remember Abu Ghraib prison, although shocking and utterly disturbing it is hardly surprising that it's happening to your own citizens now. I feel for the young women and anyone else that has suffered at the hands of the likes of these people who make oaths of service and protection and deliver fear and tyranny.

What if the problem is the society. Who is throwing babies..... are you a micheal jackson fan.

[edit on 5-2-2008 by atlasastro]

Originally posted by atlasastro
What if the problem is the society. Who is throwing babies.....

What I am saying is our society or any other could not function without some form of law enforcement. Are you saying we can? Otherwise I have no idea what you are saying.

If someone were to break into your house or worse, who would you call for help?

are you a micheal jackson fan.

I REALLY don't know what you mean by this.

Please explain the relevance that Michael Jackson has to this topic?

So I gave up on the thread when it started to degenerate into partisan political stuff...which I would happily have joined into, but that's not what I want to say here.

Simply, though, I will submit that she was not being strip-searched, she was being stripped because she gave the wrong answer when asked about if she had thought about suicide. She answered with something like 'now or ever?'. That's when a different protocol kicked in, because if she had hanged herself using her bra the cops would then have been liable.

But it looks like the cops blew it from the moment the cruiser pulled up to the scene, and I sincerely hope they live to regret it. As one poster said..."To protect and serve, indeed!"

Originally posted by Hal9000
If someone were to break into your house or worse, who would you call for help?

After seeing that video, and knowing that Hope Steffie called the police for help, and what resulted in here phone call to police not to mention that the arresting officer was told they had the wrong person in custody, and she was still brutaly tortured, humiliated and had here dignity taken from here later.

I think i will deal with the person that broke into my home personally, and i would arm myself with the Constitution, that says we have the right bare arms and use them to defend ourself's, our property and family against unjust actions against our person.

[edit on 5-2-2008 by SpaceBits]

Without question this was a sexual assault and all the officers, and any superiors who have "condoned" or "defended" these actions should be charged accordingly. Jail time for all involved is the beginning of this. The end is a change, nationwide, in how much authority and use of force we allow domestic police.

The US is going to Hell and it's because of the mindset that makes this video even REMOTELY defensible. If you're an American and you think that these cops can be defended in the slightest, then... I don't understand my country anymore. When did we become what every hero I've ever had fights against?

If someone were to break into your house or worse, who would you call for help?

Personally I would not call anyone. If one has to rely on another for self-defense said one will probably spend their entire life as a victim.

Originally posted by Hal9000
If someone were to break into your house or worse, who would you call for help?

While not directly asked of me the simple answer is Smith & Wesson.

Shocking answer, yes. More effective than "rehabilitation" by getting "paroled" early only to return on another crime, you betcha.

Deterrence factor, debatable but you wouldn't do it a second time.

Does that make me a kill happy nutcase? No. I have had a guy break and enter my apartment and crawl into bed while I was asleep. What saved him you ask? He was drunk and figured out he was in the wrong place and begged not to be killed as he had made a honest (although stupid) mistake. And yes when I rolled over and discovered him every fiber of my being said said kill until I woke up a little more and allowed reason to enter my thoughts.

Could I have killed, yeah. In fact I was so close that it disturbed me greatly that I had almost killed him that I was haunted by visions of the deed that I almost did for weeks. Now had he been guilty of something far greater than a minor tresspass such as theft or violence then yes there would have been no remorse when they carried his broken and bleeding body out of the apartment.

The fact remains that police, prisons and courts are of little deterrence to those that wish to commit acts of crime against others. They know full well that they have to be caught to face any of that justice. There was a poster earlier in the thread that was arrested for whipping his upstairs neighbor's butt and thus saving his neighbor's wife's life. I am willing to wager that the poster would do the exact same thing if happened again...but I also think that the husband is also less likelikely to beat a woman again because of the fear he might find himself to become subject of a hard beating again.

And when I did security I had a badge clipped to my belt and for some it was a very strong deterrent because it was identical to the style of the local police and they were never quite sure if I was an off duty cop or not. Especially since I wasn't dressed exactly the same as other security guards that did not opt to wear a badge.

[edit on 5-2-2008 by Ahabstar]

Ok, so let's do away with all the cops, carry side arms and revert back to the wild west. Is that what you want? Sounds similar to what the Muslims want to do in their countries. I prefer a more civilized existence.

It's funny, I think back to when Katrina hit New Orleans and then everyone was wonder where all the help was.

I am not defending what these officers did by any means. This is an obvious problem that went bad from the start and should be fixed. You just can't blame every policemen for what these ones did.

Originally posted by Hal9000
Ok, so let's do away with all the cops, carry side arms and revert back to the wild west. Is that what you want? Sounds similar to what the Muslims want to do in their countries. I prefer a more civilized existence.

It's funny, I think back to when Katrina hit New Orleans and then everyone was wonder where all the help was.

I am not defending what these officers did by any means. This is an obvious problem that went bad from the start and should be fixed. You just can't blame every policemen for what these ones did.

At least back in the Wild West men in power to serve and protect didn't go around striping a woman naked against her will and then leaving her in a 6x6 for 6 hours.
They would of known there would have been a posy round up to hang them, immediately.

I do agree with you, we do need policing but this does not mean to the point of allowing this kind of behavior to go on unpunished, and how these people involved can still be in a position of power over another human being is beyond comprehension.

Imagine, these people are still out there working with the mentality that they did nothing wrong.

Originally posted by Hal9000
If someone were to break into your house or worse, who would you call for help?

What's wrong with defending yourself? Why do we always have to call the cops to come and taser us all and ask questions later? We aren't civilized enough to know that an intruder should be shot on site if asked to leave, we have to call the cops?

Originally posted by SpaceBits
I would arm myself with the Constitution, that says we have the right bare arms and use them to defend ourself's, our property and family against unjust actions against our person.

Don't forget that this includes the cops. If their actions are unjust, I have no problem opening fire on them. I'll be dead, but so is freedom otherwise.

Originally posted by titorite
And while it maybe true that we can't blame every cop for the actions of the few we should hold those accountable in law enforcement that would defend or excuse the actions of the guards in the video.

It is my view that they are just as guilty.

It's like the priests who covered up for their fellow priest's molestation of children. They are just as guilty in my mind.

If one must rely on another for protection, then the one needing protection is a slave to the protector. I beleive this was said by one of Americas late president. I just can't remember wich one. sorry.

Yes we need policing to deal with bad people who break the laws, but we dont need them to protect us in the cence that they can go beyond the laws and remove the freedoms(Constitution) they were put into position to protect in the first place.

When a perfectly normal teen or even an adult is raped. They are usually closely monitored by doctors due to the high possibility of suicide. Yet if these Officers thought she might have been suicidal. would that not have meant to have a doctor there and treat her kindly as to not promote a suicide attempt?