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Block III Super Hornet

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posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 12:17 PM
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So Boeing is proposing a Sixth Generation Fighter package with elements to appear on the Block III Super Hornets due in 2012?

In theory this machine is to feature a diamond shaped biconvex main wing, no horizontal stabilizers, tandem cockpit (two man crew), stealthier shape and coating, widely spaced engine mounting with internal weapons storage in between - perhaps a laser, etc. etc.....

It is starting to sound like a repackaging of the amazing YF-23A. I took the liberty of envisaging what the Block III's may be . . .









[edit on 1-2-2008 by templar8]

[edit on 1-2-2008 by templar8]

[edit on 1-2-2008 by templar8]




posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by templar8
 


Hey templar if you go to your main photo album page and then look below the image you want to post till you see the bottom of 3 text fields that says [IMG]XXXXXX[IMG] and you it and paste it in your thread by clicking the edit button you can have the actual image in the thread.

Also was this your source for the information as its where I saw it was well?
forum.keypublishing.co.uk...

If its was just remember next time to post the link as well.

[edit on 1-2-2008 by Canada_EH]



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 01:15 PM
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Thank you for the tip Canada_EH but my photo album is not allowing me to do that. My source is not any specific publication but a private contact.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 09:59 PM
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Hmm, very interesting to say the least, Boeing is already focusing on the next generation US fighter. I suppose while Lockheed is busy developing the F-35 and still producing the F-22A Boeing sees an opportunity to take the lead after loosing the JSF contract. Overall this is good for the US and I’d like to see the DoD fund and encourage Boeing to further develop this fighter. It’s interesting to note that the ATF program was initiated just a mere 5 years after the first F-15 entered operational service, in light of new Russian progress and development. Now we see a similar pattern emerging of multiple countries developing or hinting at possibly acquiring foreign 5th Gen fighters. Hence we need to being developing the counter even though the Raptor will more than hold its own for decades to come.

The USN currently likes the Super Hornet as an airframe and is looking to procure Super Hornets (Block II) until around 2012, which would dovetail nicely with introduction of the Block III. There has been quite a concern in the Navy regarding the future state of the current force. Some of the legacy Hornets are expanding their remaining airframe hours before they can be replaced by the Super Hornets due to the high temp in operations since September 11. And some of the new Super Hornets are also using their airframe hours faster than anticipated which means they might not serve as much time as originally estimated, this could mean costly rebuilds later on in the program or a shortage in available fighters. Couple this with the lowered per year production number of the F-35 and you have a potentially serious situation. Especially IF, and I must stress that, there are delays with the F-35 program. So the chances that the Navy will procure the Block III are rather good, even if it would overlap with F-35C production. If the current tempo in ops is sustained the USN will have no choice but to procure more Super Hornets. The Marines on the other hand are totally committed to the F-35B and don't really have a reason to purchase more Hornets, hence why they skipped out on Super Hornet purchases.

I'm really interested to see how the Block III stacks up though, the current Block II has an incredible avionic, weapon and sensor suite coupled with a significant amount of LO features. The Block III might feature even more range, more powerful engines, more emphasis on VLO and even newer and more capable avionics/sensors.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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Hmm, while I think that the USN is in desperate need for a real, air superiority fighter, I think that for 2024 tech this is awfully primitive. Well not primitive, you know what I mean, it looks very current-gen to me. It looks like no one has really figured out what might go into a 6th generation fighter. I hope by that time we will have something that really sets it apart. I bet we will see things like HELLADS on that aircraft.

If it were up to me I would have scrapped the F-35 a long time ago in pursuit of a YF-23 type fighter-bomber, so you can imaging how excited I am seeing this and especially the image.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by BlackWidow23
 


The thing is that its not really 6th gen. Teh avionics and layout and operations is more 5th gen or dare i say 5.5 then 6th. The 6th gen tag line is in my opinion partly just for use as marketing for the concept.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 10:32 PM
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True enough. But I figure with the average time of fighter development and the continued advances in computer technology we theoretically should have something far better by than.

As far as I can see it has nothing over the Raptor.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by BlackWidow23
 


What it does have is that it is in concept/development which means new tech can be incorporated easier then a already produced airframe and avionics. A plane that isn't built yet could technically have any thing in it or have it be able to do anything. Its still not in stone. So then comes the fun of speculation as to what I will have but with all of that is then when I'm saying that even with the blank slate I don't think or am to cynical to think that they can make something 6th gen. But I do love being proved wrong when it comes to new fighter development lol



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by Canada_EH
 


Well thats all fine and good but if what you say is true we can't really call it anything close to an aircraft, right now it is nothing more than them saying "hey we should build you guys a 6th generation fighter."



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by templar8
 


Great drawing templar.

Interesting news.



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 03:26 AM
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As i can see it , a generation of aircraft brings something *really* new to the table , 1st gen jets were those right after ww2 (mig 15 , F86) , 2nd gen brought guided missiles into the equasion (mig 21 , EE lightning and the F104) , 3rd gen (F4 and mig 23) 4th gen being real multirole (as opposed to fighter bomber from 3rd gen) (SU27, F15, ,, tornado to name a handful) and of course 5th gen which brings stealth to the table


what does this new proposal bring? a steahy hornet? if anything its 5th generation , just a reorking of what boeing allready have.



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by SteveR
reply to post by templar8
 


Great drawing templar.

Interesting news.


Wow yeah! What shall I do here?

Interesting drawing!

Great news!!

Steal points and get away



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 06:40 AM
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I believe they are calling the Block III Hornet a Generation 4.75 platform (ie it is slightly more stealthy than a Block II). As for 6th gen, I certainly haven't heard a definition in the official sense. Given that the Raptor is likely to be peerless for a number of years to come, I'd be interested to see what a "6th" generation aircraft offers that the Raptor doesn't. More stealth? Possibly. From my perspective, major improvement to the network centricity of the platform (realtime target updates in the truest sense, global SA etc) tied with a minute RCS, and direct energy weapons, is what I'd be looking for.



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 08:23 AM
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The darn thing just needs to be faster. It needs to have the quick long range interception capabilites that the F-14 had.



posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 02:26 PM
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Well in regards to what you said Blackwidow your spot on its a very much verbal campaign of "hey hey uh we could build it". Also Willard I think your right the plane if developed as a block III would be a 4.75 gen as it is still appears of the trickle of info much too based on the 4th gen F-18.

Personally This thread is very much each persons reaction to a hype campaign by boeing (as a marketer myself I can't blame them). I'd be interested just to hear Waynos opinion as some one who also is familiar with the "gen" systems and classifications and Westpoints statement is good about development times and how you can't stay still even though the USAF is now producing the F-22. But with this info where do you think the plane would sit gen wise Westy?

[edit on 2-2-2008 by Canada_EH]



posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 03:03 AM
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Well, the way I see it unless an aircraft is built from the ground up to be fundamentally different than its predecessors or current peer associates then it cannot be considered a anything but an upgrade to an existing system. As such, the Block III Super Hornet would still be a 4.5+ generation aircraft, though much more capable and advanced than its early production versions. I don't care much for adding on .75 etc... it just gets silly past a ceirtain point. Anyway, a lot of people are getting bent out of shape over nothing. In the articles I've read Boeing simply stated that the US military is expressing interests in starting early work on the next generation of fighter aircraft. As such Boeing will being work on the project and will use the planned and upcoming Block III to test, evaluate and implement some features that might be used on the next generation fighter. Not unlike what Lockheed did with the F-22 and F-35. Boeing would then used the Block III as a logical step to more forward and finalize the design for the new planned aircraft. At this point it's nothing more than just a concept with some initial R&D in progress. As such there are no specifics, only suggestions, such as a ballpark figure for combat range, initiatives in a further reduction of the RCS , new and improved avionics/sensors etc… and perhaps that it could have a dual manned unmanned capability. There is no design as of yet, the one featured picture in this thread is just art that a member put together of what they think this new fighter might look like.

Anyway, the Block III Super Hornet will likely have the following features, increased range, a further reduction in all aspect stealth, various aerodynamic improvements, increased range, the F414 enhanced durability engine, new integrated sensors, systems, avionics etc… The latter would compromise the bulk of the changes, in terms of integration and systems improvement. The F414 EDE would offer a 20% increase in thrust and up to three times the lifecycle for the engine core. This means an output of 26,500 lb for each engine and a combined max output of 53,000 lb. All of these changed make the Block III a very tempting and interesting (capable) airframe for the USN as it looks to increase its Super Hornet by past the ~600 planned.

Sources

F414 EDE
New Super Hornet Deal
Beyond Block 2 Super Hornet
Boeing Plans 6th Gen Fighter/Block III Hornet



posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 05:34 AM
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You asked for my opinion Canada EH but I would say that Westy pretty much nailed it in that last post


There is no way a derivative design is going to be a generational leap over something like the F-22, no matter what they add to it as the basic architecture is that of the F-18 and if that is going to changed, just design a new plane from the start. In fact the AWST article linked to on the Key forum that Canada linked to does make it plain that when talking about this Block III SH and a 6th gen fighter, Boeing are talking about TWO different projects.

At the beginning of the LWF competition (actually, before it) Northrop proposed the N300 which was based on the F-5, from that starting point they evolved the all-new and completely different YF-17, what we have here may be a similar 'starting point', from which a true 6th gen design may emerge, or the DoD may just take the cheap route and go for a block III Super Hornet anyway. It will be interesting to follow.

[edit on 3-2-2008 by waynos]



posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 06:11 AM
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Boeing has recently announced the development of a sixth generation aircraft with a 1000 mile combat radius ,greatly enhanced stealth specially against low frequency radars as well as a new generation avionics suite to be available for induction in 2024 and is offering the US Navy an alternate,quicker path to sixth generation capability sticking with a greatly enhanced super hornet a while longer instead of inducting the F-35 in the 2015-2025 timeframe and then shifting to sixth generation in the 2030+ _

Just boeing marketing.

USAF contemplates unmanned jet option

By Caitlin Harrington

24 October 2007

The US Air Force (USAF) is already considering what its next generation of fighter aircraft will look like and one possibility is a new stealthy, unmanned fighter jet, according to USAF Chief of Staff General Michael Moseley.

Talking to Jane's on 16 October, Gen Moseley said that he has asked officials at Wright Patterson Air Force Base and the Office of the Secretary of the Air Force/Acquisition to review requirements for a "sixth-generation" fighter.

One possibility might be an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) treated with special laminates to increase stealth.

www.janes.com...



posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 08:21 AM
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All I know is that they need to stop messing around and get the JSF in service. The Navy needs stealth if know one is going to give them an aircraft that is fast and deadly. The air-force needs more planes to replace the ageing fleet. If only congress would realize that if they order allot over along time then the price comes way down. The government should take the planes from the Marines as they will always have the navy for air support and give them the Comanche. The greatest helo ever designed was ready to go into production till that Idiot Rumsfeld pulled it. I mean how can you pull it when Orange County Choppers made a bike to match it?


[edit on 3-2-2008 by Sky watcher]



posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 09:30 AM
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Block III (possible additions).

The major updates for Block III can be:

- GE414-400 improved powerplants. Using improved design and materials, this engine will have 30% less parts and maintenence needs, 25% more thrust, reduced overall weight, and improved efficiency at medium to high altitudes.

- TVC. With 25% more thrust and lighter powerplants, the aircraft can support the weight and thrust penalties of a single-axis TVC system, possible based on that of the F-22A.

- APG-79 upgrades. Improved signal processing software and power output. Maybe newer T/R modules as well.

- Reduced RCS. The current F/A-18E/F does not have any RAM coatings. This is primarily due to the corrosive environments on board USN Carriers. But the JSF program's F-35C will sport RCS coatings which will be able to hold up to these conditions and be inexpensive to place on the fan blades and leading edges of the F/A-18E/F.

- IDECM Blk 3. Makes use of ALE-55 Fiber Optic Towed Decoy.

I expect Block III to be finalized by 2008-2009 maybe. With first service entry in 2012. Roughly the same time as the F-35C.





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