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It is not how well we live, but how well we die.

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posted on Dec, 15 2002 @ 04:37 AM
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I'm posting this to see what you all think about my saying. I think if my saying was truly believed by all, that we'd have a by far better world, less sullied by greed and passion. The saying I shall repeat:

"It is not how well we live, but how well we die."

To me that means that what we do in life is not as important as how well we will be rememberd through our death. To me it is more a soldier's phrase, or such. But I have just today, came up with a more everbody-type application, that TRULY gets the message across.

"Let us not forget we all must answer death, it is not how we live but how we die. It would be best if we never died at all, living in the hearts of those we saved."

That was referring to that "Can't US be the beast?" post...but I feel that has really strong implications. I feel that if people would heed that phrase, that we'd all be much better people.

To me it means roughly the same thing, our lives are worthless when we are dead, so we might as well not live for ourselves, but live for others.

So I'm wondering what you all think about those sayings//ways of thought, and what kinds of impacts it would have on societies and such.

Hmm I guess I'm split between if this should be in the "discussions forum" (is there such a forum?) or this one, but it fits religion//spiritualism, so I'll stick it here.

Also, to our more religious posters, I'd be interested on hearing your thoughts if any, on any references these phrases would have in the bible or koran or what not. Like quotes and such where this idea is shown in the bible, or any other religious beliefs of anyone here.

Sincerely,
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posted on Dec, 15 2002 @ 06:19 AM
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Its a great idea and everyone should think about if they are actually doing all they can to help others. But dont run out and sacrifice yourself for the greater good. If everyone did that there would be no "greater good." Also I think that the quote is misleading because, at least for me, it brought to mind the kamikazes of WW2, they truly believed that they were doing it for the greater good and they were. But is this a good thing or a bad thing? It should be more of a "live for others not yourself" thing.

XAOS



posted on Dec, 15 2002 @ 09:57 PM
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We can't choose whether or not we will live or die, but if you're very lucky, you can choose the *circumstances* of your death...If you're lucky enough to choose those circumstances, try to make your death mean something more than your life ever did.

Example: Those trapped passengers on the highjacked plane that went down in Pennsylvania...What evidence I've seen seems to support that they had stormed the cockpit & took out the highjackers *before* they could reach their intended target. In short, those passengers knew that they were probably going to die, but they chose to keep other people from being potential targets for death.



posted on Dec, 16 2002 @ 04:03 AM
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A CBC reporter (Canadian Brodcasting Corporation) was told by witnesses two days after the crashe in Penn. that they saw a flash and smoke while the plane was still high in the air.

The first cell phone transcript released to the media is by a guy in the plane's bathroom - he described the terrorists and then said that there was what sounded like an explosion. Then he said the cabin and the bathroom was filling with black smoke.

It is highly probable that the highjackers (a) brought a bomb on board and detonated it when the passengers began attacking them; (b) the hijackers brought a bomb on board and thought Penn. was a good enough place to detonate it (yeah, right); (c) an F-16 was hot on their tail and shot the plane down.

Do a search on the 'net. There's loads of reports that suggest whatever caused the crash also caused an explosion and a lot of smoke.

Besides, the FAA described the planes tragectory as a nose-dive, yet debris was found up to three miles from the crash.

Neither of the black boxes were found for nearly a week after the crash. Funny thing is, black boxes are made to be found easily and the military got to the site before the FAA - yet the FAA didn't find the boxes for a week?

Probably gave the military enough time to doctor the black boxes...

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posted on Dec, 16 2002 @ 04:35 AM
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In response to the original post:

As a Christian, I take to heart the words that God is "the God of the living, and not of the dead". There are many warnings about doing good "to be seen of men" - charity in the sight of men, for the praise of men, begets vanity.

Instead, "pray in the closet" and "give in secret" and the "father will reward you openly".

To give charity and mercy in secrecy does not mean not to do good deeds in the view of others. Instead, it means to do it for the glory of God, and not for men. You are showing your mettle to God. Only you and God (and maybe the bum you gave twenty dollars to) know your goodness.

I vounteered and worked for a charitable organization once and can tell you that those at the top, of most charities, use the charity to appear benevolent to their friends, collegues, and business associates. They throw charity balls, not to make money for charity, but to make contacts and to further their business agenda. The charity gets $15,000.00 and they, through the deals they make, walk out with millions. They do this in the sight of men, for the honor of men.

As much as I bash it, the one thing I like about freemasonry is that it has set a good precident by not boasting about how much it gives to charity. It has used it in various spins, and defenders of the craft are quick on the draw to mention their charity in their defence... but, for the most part, they do it in secrecy - which is a Christian ideal.

I disagree with your statement because there are several instances where good people do great things and are not remembered in the hearts of anyone. Just like there are terrible people that do terrible things but are remembered as kind, honest, giving people.

If President Bush died tomorrow, the vast majority of americans would remember him as valient, brave, and a lot of other qualities which he isn't. On the other hand, Afghanis, Iraqis, North Koreans, etc, would throw parties because the 'dajjal', antichrist, leader of "the Great Satan", which he also isn't, is dead. But who's remembrance is more valid? How is the way he died more important than the way he lived? His demeanor and character becomes arbitrary and subjected to the preconceptions of the individual while, at the same time, it is buffetted by the judgement of the media for pro or for con.

In any event, he is dead. He may have hurt people while looking good, or helping people while looking bad. But in the end each has to meet his Maker, and His judgement of our performance here is the only one that counts.

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posted on Dec, 16 2002 @ 09:08 AM
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I'll disagree with the "it doesn't matter how we live, it matters how we die."

Let's take Hitler. Now, suppose that during the last days of his life (THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE AND IS AN OUTRIGHT FICTION I'M MAKING UP ON THE SPOT), he uncovered a plot by rogue scientists to drop mustard gas on Berlin, and in the process of stopping the scientist personally, he is wounded and dies of his wounds.

...and this makes up for the deaths of millions of Jews and other people he didn't like? This makes up for the rape and torture of people?

And WWII?

How about Timothy McVeigh? He went bravely to his death. This makes up for blowing up the Murrow Federal Building and killing all those people (and those babies?)

They destroyed lives. They destroyed families. One of them destroyed democracy and hope and prosperity and peace.

Dying nobly suddenly makes their lives "all right"?



Not in MY book!


kim

posted on Dec, 16 2002 @ 09:26 AM
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ppl who supposedly die nobley are not always that noble looking- rather, stupid. take, suicide bombers for example. what a waste of a person.
i also disagree with the beginning statement "it doesnt matter..."
like mother teresa- ppl are still gonna remember her and all the good things she did. It doesnt take some freak accident to remember someone..although its sure to stand out more.



posted on Dec, 16 2002 @ 01:53 PM
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I agree Byrd. It is the person who dies nobly. Those suicide bomberse think they are dieng "nobly." But of course they are'nt.



posted on Dec, 16 2002 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by Savonarola
Instead, "pray in the closet" and "give in secret" and the "father will reward you openly".

Sav....that's Freemasonry!


Yes I see what you mean by the "suicide bombers" bit, but they cause suffering, not end it. If we are so blind as to not distinguish between those whose evils out weigh their goods, than how ever will we inspire our children to be good?

Sincerely,
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posted on Dec, 17 2002 @ 10:28 AM
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to be brief i will agree with byrd, and say that i think a better phrase is the total opposite of your suggestion: "it is not how we die that matters, but how we lived". you are remembered for your life, and what you did in it.

to quote a world famous folk singer (and friend of mine) Roy Bailey:
"but the only measure of your words and your deeds
will be the love you leave behind when your done."

- qo.





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