Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Well, this is coming from the grass roots...look it up before you rant. Further...what does the quote read? "Tis better to light one candle than to curse the darkness".

And frankly, your suggestion didn't work. This is the other option.

I'm speaking more from a community sense or lack thereof not from the school and/or teachers themselves. Select members of the community may have spoken but no doubt the school board saw this is an opportunity to further their tarnished image. My suggestion isn't a one stop shop solution, its a way of life. The home front is essential to proper upbringing and that, imo, is severely lacking in most of these cases. On the subject of quotes "Ignorance is bliss' comes to mind.

brill

Originally posted by brill

I'm speaking more from a community sense or lack thereof not from the school and/or teachers themselves. The home front is essential to proper upbringing and that, imo, is severely lacking in most of these cases.

True...but the thing is you can't legislate good parenting, and you can't legislate listening to your folks and community (rather than your peers or media ie glorification of thug culture).

What you can do is provide an environment that is especially conducive to at-risk pupils. I question the necessity...my kid is suburban, white intellectually gifted...so I can't say I'm an expert on Black youth. But when the parents ask for this help...knowing that the first word that comes to mind is segregation...I think we ought to give it a chance. This debate, incidently, has been going on for a while now, and has only just come to some sort of resolution.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
True...but the thing is you can't legislate good parenting, and you can't legislate listening to your folks and community

What you can do is provide an environment that is especially conducive to at-risk pupils. I question the necessity...my kid is suburban, white intellectually gifted...so I can't say I'm an expert on Black youth. But when the parents ask for this help...knowing that the first word that comes to mind is segregation...I think we ought to give it a chance. This debate, incidently, has been going on for a while now, and has only just come to some sort of resolution.

No you can't thats true but when this project fails, and it will, what then. Who is left to blame? I think the educational system, although not perfect, has churned out tens of thousands of success stories. There will always be those who just can't cut it and thats an accepted fact. To cater to a particular minority that has so many other extended community issues is just plain wrong. Where does it end? What happens if Oriental students feel that because they are gifted that the traditional white schools are slowing them down? If this is going to happen then it should be privatized and not using my tax dollars to further some backwards agenda. I'm all for helping those who need it but not with this approach.

To add your absolutely right that good parenting can't be legislated but I don't see much being done from this respective community to facilitate positive change.

brill



[edit on 1-2-2008 by brill]

Originally posted by brill ....but when this project fails, and it will, what then. Who is left to blame?

Then you can say that they tried it in Toronto, and it didn't work. But in the meanwhile, I'd suggest you pay attention to the programme as an effort to tackle an ongoing problem. One thing is guaranteed, though...you never accomplish anything by sitting back and telling others "That will never work." And if, indeed, you have a better idea, I encourage you to inform the Toronto District Board of Education...and get back to us all with their response, eh?

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Then you can say that they tried it in Toronto, and it didn't work. But in the meanwhile, I'd suggest you pay attention to the programme as an effort to tackle an ongoing problem. One thing is guaranteed, though...you never accomplish anything by sitting back and telling others "That will never work." And if, indeed, you have a better idea, I encourage you to inform the Toronto District Board of Education...and get back to us all with their response, eh?

All I'm saying is that there are deeper problems here that I don't think will be fully addressed with this approach. Is there a clear solution, dunno. It's certainly not my job to figure it out. I just don't like tax dollars frivolously tossed about to comfort a minority that is unwilling to accept its own failures. Let's see what happens.

brill

[edit on 1-2-2008 by brill]

I think the idea seems counterintuitive to Americans because African Americans spent years trying to get the school system integrated. To segregate again seems a backward step. However, I have taught in an historically black college and I have to say it was effective in fostering a higher level of achievement in some students who had been marginal in the public schools. I don't think Toronto's school will be anything like the segregated schools of the Jim Crow era in the U.S. I wish them the best in their effort to serve the black community more effectively.

[edit on 1-2-2008 by Sestias]

I find it really hard to get worked up about this.

School boards like to shake things up every now and then and we have plenty of alternative schools in Canada already - this is just another one. Do I think it's a good idea? Not necessarily, but I will withhold judgement for now.

Edited to add:

Toronto has gay/lesbian/bi/transgender and First Nations public schooling, so I'm not going to get worked up over a black school.

[edit on 5-2-2008 by Duzey]

Originally posted by Duzey

Toronto has gay/lesbian/bi/transgender...

[edit on 5-2-2008 by Duzey]

Do you have any links for that ? I wasn't aware that public funding was being used to satisfy sexual preference in relation to a school environment or is it privatized? Either way a sad state of affairs and completely undermines what schools are attempting to embrace, that being acceptance of others, their culture and communities.

brill

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
One might deplore the need for such separate streams, but that's like slagging kids in the gifted programmes because they have more school trips.

I quoted that, because I was one of the poor unfortunates that got caught up in 'streaming' when it first became fashionable. I went from an A average to a C+ within my first year, because our classes were graded on a curve. Something's wrong when 90% is a C+ and the extra trips did not make up for the heck I got at home every time report cards were issued.

/rant

For the most part I agree with you. There are other things that concern me more than alternative schools.