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Wine Makers, Brewers. What to Stock up on?

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posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 04:12 PM
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I make wine and just got a home hobby beer kit so I don't know about that yet. First beer is 12 days away. For folks that pursue these interests, what is a good idea to stock up on? Most things like yeast expire pretty quick it seems. Some canned beer malts go for a couple years though. I don't have a 2" corker so my wines are about a two year life expectancy.

What should one do other than a floor corker for 2" natural corks and extra sulphite in what they are making now? I posted to see if there are new long term beer or wine strategies.

Any thoughts?




posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 04:19 PM
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Mate, this is by far the most important post that's ever graced the pages of ATS. Why hasn't anyone brought this up before?? You are 100% right, we need a rock solid plan in place so we never, ever run out of booze.

Being an Aussie, i must have a reliable supply of VB. I'm thinking brown thrown backs are the way forward.

I also need my Bundy Rum. I'm also thinking rum will be good because it lasts longer.

I would love to hear other opinions on this matter. We need to get this important matter sorted before something happens.

Star and flag for you my brother!



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 04:25 PM
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Well in addition to its various consumption issues, the ability to make alcohol also can be distilled into a fuel and used to clean wounds etc. It also can be bartered with as well.

I say the #1 most important item you would need is well preserved brewers yeast.

Fruit, etc should be fairly easy to get and you can ferment almost anything but refined yeast would be the hardest to find post disaster.

After that the distillation equipment could be scrounged up, but if you already have it its just that much easier.

For wine, clean plastic buckets with a lid would be best. Oak kegs are always better, but lets face it your not going to be making a first growth here.



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 04:38 PM
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I convinced my wife last year at this time to get a winemaking set and a wine kit. Before we were done we had made 5 of the 6 gallon batches. The kits are very easy but I was a noob and it took me a while to wrap my head around the process panic a few times etc. 6 gallons is 28-30 bottles depending on if you want really clear clean wine and if you top up when getting rid of the yeast etc. Of these we got overly indulgent and overly generous gifting bottles of each flavor to several people, and now we are down to a little under two cases of the least liked. I'm getting ready to start up again, and want the floor corker so we can age reds for several years. I know both types of sulphite are critical for cleanliness and the wine. I was kind of wanting to fill my racks and then keep 3 of the 6 gal carboys full for bulk aging and to rotate into the newly drained empties. and then start a batch as the carboys were empty.

BTW:dingleberry77, I'm with ya on the spirits but too expensive here.

I was looking for some tips on supplies to stock up on though. I found one really good forum where the folks are super nice through the fine vine wines site, and they put up with all my dumb questions and were very helpful. I have all the things like drill stirrers and the missing things from the kits that make it easy now too.

A guy who lives by use was selling off all his stuff to move and he had a room full of bottles that were over 20 years old he showed me. Dust so thick that you couldn't see a label but he said they were all good because of the 2" corks, so I learned something there.

I have rack space for 12 cases and a magnum rack that holds 30 magnums.

Any thoughts on beer and wine strategies?

[edit on 31-1-2008 by Illahee]



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by FredT

I say the #1 most important item you would need is well preserved brewers yeast.

Fruit, etc should be fairly easy to get and you can ferment almost anything but refined yeast would be the hardest to find post disaster.


There is no real way for long term yeast except to keep a live culture like they do with sourdough. They say over a couple decades the yeast will tend to evolve and be different but I don't know and have not seen that in books.



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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Properly bottled and stored hooch will last... I opened a '74 Wiser's Special Old after the new year and it was fine, but the plastic from the cap was a bit deteriorated but didn't crumble. No problem... smooth. As long as it's sealed it's great. Maybe seal the caps on booze you won't use for years with paraffin like when the Missus' does up preserves.

Bigger bush stills I've seen do corrode if you're doin' a batch of recipe up. It'll eat anything, don't breathe the fumes. Copper is getting insanely expensive to get in roll or sheet. But hey, it's easy to work with. Yeast and PEI taters, throw in some Holland Landing corn, rye and a few apples (I like Granny Smiths chopped fine - gives the tart-mouth-twang).
Warning do not try this at home! Most places it's not exactly... well we don't worry 'bout that. Check your local regulatory codes.

Brewski's are perfect for tucker time tho'. Good bottles, some good caps and a proper cap press. Some sterilization stuff. Problem is it goes "off' with storage or at least any I've been given by my buddies does. Couple months tops and then the "skunky" comes to call.

Yeast would be the biggie to have and clean water for process consumables...

Never made wine. Been to the Ice Wine place near here... makes NASA look like a mouse click. Complifreakincated - way too fussy and so easy to spoil. I'd never have the patience or all the room needed.

Some of the best booze I ever quaffed, bar none, was homemade.


Vic

[edit on 31-1-2008 by V Kaminski]



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 04:54 PM
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You can make wine without adding your own yeast. Most fruit naturally contains it's own yeast to some degree. It might not be quite as effective, but it will still work for any fruit or substance that has it's own natural sugars.

The biggest thing I think would be sterilizing agent to kill the yeast off, and to clean out your containers. Otherwise your wine will quickly turn into vinegar if you don't stop the fermentation process.

From a survival standpoint I see no reason to produce alcoholic beverages. It's a whole lot of effort for something that is only bad for your health. If you can find a bottle of strong rum to use as a disinfectant for cleaning wounds or making a signal fire, sure. But there is no reason to make or consume alcohol in a survival situation... it dehydrates you, and makes you less effective in all activities.



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 05:00 PM
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excellent thread.

I have been making wine for years, and although acquiring fresh yeast is important, keeping the fermenters and such sterile will be the biggest problem.

You could have 50 pounds of yeast stocked up, but if your fruit juice/mash gets contaminated, thus killing the yeast, you will end up with rancid fruit juice, that will probably make you sick.

There's alot of commercial sanitisers out there like star san, and idophor, but I just use a couple caps full of bleach in a gallon or two of water to sanitise my equipment with.

Also, you can keep a culture of yeast alive if you tend to it properly and have a cool place to keep it.

My grand dad (who taught me to make wine) kept a culture going for years from just a few packets of bakers yeast.

Another thing grand dad did was to can fruit he wanted to make into wine in the colder months when it was out of season.

Star and flag for you OP.

Later,......Ausable_Bill

edit for spelling

[edit on 31-1-2008 by Ausable_Bill]



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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Yep is says 4 months max storage on beer. I was thinking about the cans though. Prehopped extract that was in cans with new dates for the shelf.

The wine keeps fine in the 6 gal glass jugs till your ready to bottle. It lasts up to a year in those without issue. We don't have room for oak kegs so we use oak cubes in the wine and it does the very same thing. Actually a little better than kegs.

Super high quality wines only run between 3-4 bucks a bottle to make and you can do the cheapies for not much more than 2 bucks. Some people claim to do homemade wines under a buck a bottle.


I think if you are in place its a good thing to do. It does dehydrate but then again its basicly water and juice with a very long shelf life. It has a very high trade value in time of distress. Plus I we look at the wooden sailing ships regular daily rum rations kept people sedate and able to cope in tight quarters. Obviously we should have our watch persons sharp. In the old days though liquid courage was the norm on every musket laden battlefield.

I do plan on turning some to vinigar. Its a traditional cleaning agent for bacterial things on humans from stinky feet to others.


If I didn't have such good success on the first years wines I might not consider it.

[edit on 31-1-2008 by Illahee]



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by Illahee
 


Well preserved yeast, bottom fermenting unless you plan to make lager, which can be better but is more difficult and requires well regulated fermentation temperatures.

Good beer making equipment and a plan for sterilizing and keeping it clean. The most common reason for bad beer is poor sterilization of equipment.

Great hops. Grow your own if you can't get fresh hops. Get different kinds of high quality hops for experimentation. Very important.

Lots of high quality malt. Various roasts for variety. Store it well.

Make sure you have a good water supply, but that's obvious.



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by Ausable_Bill


Another thing grand dad did was to can fruit he wanted to make into wine in the colder months when it was out of season.


My first wife got the canner, and can sealer. A beauty that could hold 24 large size tuna cans. I kick myself for allowing that since she was too lazy to ever use it. I canned tune venison, Beef and Elk. OK pretty much anything that you could eat and stuff in a can. I had lots of pint jars but only did jams and jellies.

Thinking back now we had cupboards stacked full of cans and a pantry full too. I bet she never went to the store much for the first couple years.

[edit on 31-1-2008 by Illahee]



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 05:32 PM
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One thing I forgot. You can use the wine to make vinegar as well if that is needed. You can use cider too for that matter.



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 05:56 PM
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My first wife got the canner, and can sealer. A beauty that could hold 24 large size tuna cans. I kick myself for allowing that since she was too lazy to ever use it. I canned tune venison, Beef and Elk. OK pretty much anything that you could eat and stuff in a can. I had lots of pint jars but only did jams and jellies.

Thinking back now we had cupboards stacked full of cans and a pantry full too. I bet she never went to the store much for the first couple years.

[edit on 31-1-2008 by Illahee]

I think canning supplies should be a consideration for anyone in a secure place during a survival situation.

Which reminds me,.....

one of the best batches of wine I have ever made was, when my aunt gave me a case of home - made apple butter that my grand dad had made 4 or 5 years before he died.

It looked like whiskey when it was done, and tasted like spiced hard cider,... MANNN was that good!

I just wished I would have forgot about a bottle or two in the cellar, but it was just too tasty to let it be.

Later,......Ausable_Bill



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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So it seems there is a common statement that proper sanitation is the primary concern. So we have:

1. Sulphite or bleach for sanitation.
2. Proper bottling, and materials.
3. A regularly cycled supply of active dry yeasts. (in case a live culture is required)


To this I will add k-meta for long term wine racking. I suppose plastic tools so there isn't a complete dependence on electricity.

I'm going to hold off on the beer stuff till I figure out if I like the natural cloudy beers. I filtered some wines and it was a lot of work and it takes a few months to settle naturally. Beer doesn't have that kind of time and I'm priming with sugar so its still going to cloud some.

I have wanted to make rootbeer and gingerbeer for a while and my favorite cream soda, so I will be checking into those soon. Our local says 20% of the business is in soda supplies so lots of folks do it.



posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 06:03 PM
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Bleach will be good to have on hand in a survival situation and it can sanitize the bottles and equipment easily. Just make sure to rinse with a lot of water. Beer bottling equipment (anything used after the boiling stage) has to be cleaned/sanitized more than wine. Wine is generally ok in the bottle the bottle was clean and if it is corked well. Make sure it is stored on its side keeping the cork wet, and spin the bottles every so often and the wine will stay for years. I think that the dry packets of yeast will keep for a few years. And you can always make a starter culture and keep propigating it to extend the life of the yeast.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 01:36 PM
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Any thoughts on how long bleach will keep vs. powdered packages sulphite?

Does sulphite even stay stable over the long haul?

That's probably the right question to ask.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 02:57 PM
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Excellent post, does anyone have any favorite sites to suggest that explain in detail the processes of wine and beer making? I'd love to check some out and give it a try.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by Yarcofin
 


There are many reasons to know how to make booze in a survival situation. The #1 reason would be bartering...it is a great commodity.

and you could distill it and you have something of an antiseptic.

I make mead quite regularly and sanitation is the key...good ole chlorine bleach...now in a survival situation dont overlook pool supplies. There is a lot of chlorine tablets and powders that could be used in a pinch. Just remeber that chlorine doesn't like sunlight...so keep your supplies outta the sun if possible.

Yeast wouldn't/shouldn't be such a problem. Remember that our ancestors used wild yeasts to ferment their beverages. There is a tribe in africa that uses baby poop to do the same and it is supposed to be some very good stuff. W/ a little planning you can keep yeast going for a long time. Just propagate a new batch from an old.

Mead can be made very simply...honey water and some yeast...The best I ever made was a mead made from cider from apples I picked and pressed and added several lbs of raspberries...it can and does get complicated but it is a great way to learn....I like the mead more than beer so I stuck with it...

There is a website www.gotmead.com that can explain a lot of this for you.

I just recently transfered my blackberry/raspberry mead from the secondary fermentor to another carboy to clear more...I started it back in June of last year. I cannot wait to bottle it...but it wont be ready to drink until the end of the year.

Right now there is an orange spiced mead in the works too....hope it will be ready for xmas.

Someone mentioned cloudy beer...there are products out there that will help with this...Irish moss is one and there is one named Isenglas(sp) also. The oldschool wine makers would use egg whites and bulls blood...I believe that Opus one still is refined with egg whites...

I hope everyone learns to brew their own...I have tasting parties 2x's a year where several of us get together and have a big party and people get to vote on our beverages...



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by Yarcofin
From a survival standpoint I see no reason to produce alcoholic beverages. It's a whole lot of effort for something that is only bad for your health.


First, for centuries people used wine and beer to sanitize water. Beer brewing was happening in a large scale in Britain just for that reason (I was on a trip to the Bath area and they told us). In a survival situation, you may or may not have a source of water with acceptable bacterial content, so brewing stuff is one way to fix the situation. Second, alcohol in low doses (2 drinks a day) has been shown to be beneficial for cardiovascular health. Third, if you get wet or cold outside, and get back in, one of teh fastest ways to warm up is to have a few drinks. This is one of many reasons vodka became popular in Russia. Fourth, come think of it, brewing wine or cider is a good way to preserve fruit juice, at least in some form, for the winter season.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 03:52 PM
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Excellent thread. First I want to say that yes alcohol and one or two other luxuries can sure improve ones moral in a survival situation. Not good in a life or death situation but for getting by while the world is in upheaval a little hootch goes along way.

I would like to get a cider press for making apple cider, hard apple cider, and apple cider vinegar and liquor. I get hard apple cider every fall by keeping my cider in the garage for a couple weeks and opening the cap when the pressure builds up. It's delicious and naturally effervescent and fermented. Stronger booze can be had by freezing the cider and draining the unfrozen liquid (alcohol).

For beer I would brew high alcohol content beers for ease of transportation and shelf life. Many traditional beer beer styles utilize open fermentation and use the yeast that naturally occurs in the air.

For making rum I think you can use can sugar and maybe one or two other ingredients. A friend makes it and has it in gallon jugs.
I know - too much.



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