Report: Military not ready for US attack

Originally posted by TheOracle
Why attack the USA when the US is already destroying itself?
Just wait for the economic bubble to collapse and the US may not sustain its way of life and spending and it may break up like the soviet union or end up in civil war. And what there is to invade for? There is very little oil in the US, all the US industries are moving to China and whoever "won" the USA would inherit trillions in debt.

27% of the worlds GDP rests in the US. If the US collapses, so does the world economy. So, that will not be happening.

The US can continue on with such a massive deficit thanks to US consumerism. We consume so you can work and make money.. The more we consume, the more money you make. And US debt as a percent of GDP is around 1.4 percent, well below the 2.3 percent that's been the norm since 1970s.

The US is as well, the most technologically sound nation this world has ever seen. Discovering what "secrets" lie behind closed doors could be quite gainful.

As for china, it will suffer from protracted growth rates not much faster then 3-4 per cent by the year 2015. In 2015, china will be where america was in the 1950s...

America is not outsourcing everything to china, that is a common fear tactic conspired by the isolationist. Robots are actually takeing more and more jobs away from americans..

China makes toys that you see in happy meals...lets not give them to much credit.. I, like many other americans. do not buy "made in china" when it comes to buying high end material. Said another way, whats made in china is usually crap..

Originally posted by zerotime
I think the report is probably accurate. The US military is probably not ready for a full scale US invasion. However, I do believe that invading the USA would be a nightmare for the invader. The US population is armed more heavily and practices shooting each other more than the US armed forces. Sadly, there are places in the USA that are currently worse than real war zones. The armed American civilian population (many of which are ex-military) is the largest and deadliest militia army on the planet. If another nation invaded the USA even I would pick up a gun and shoot back and I am the type of person that wishes for peace in all aspects of life.

Well put. I'm ex-infantry. I have (among others) an HK G3, lots of ammo, and the skills to quickly assume a leadership role to organize and deploy a local volunteer militia to hold the enemy at bay until the Cavalry arrives. Regarding foreign invasions strategies, I think it might be plausable to get a few thousand foreign troops into key cities over time and eventaully attack. Maybe they could even take over these cities for a time. But, without armor, and close air support, venturing out of these cities and into rural America would be suicide. I believe that it's already been said that any country trying to airlift tanks and helicopters etc to attack the US would quickly find themselves on the recieving end of an AMRAAM. How may troops have we deployed to a Iraq? A country the size of California and the mightiest military on the planet can't REALLY take it over. So...who's going to occupy the whole US?

I would prefer not to have to think about the possibility of future wars, but WW3 began with Desert Storm, and due to this, and both British and American foreign policy, we have now disenchanted millions of Arabs, who, are now selling oil to the Chinese. I would not be surprised to see the Arabs and the Chinese join forces and WALK across Europe, the European countries would run out of bullets before the 'Insurgents' ran out of men.
We, the voters, must bear some responsibility for this possible outcome having elected the irresponsible cretins that made this possible.
So, next time you vote, remember who did what, and vote only for those who pledge to represent 'The People'.
In sadness,
Horsegiver.

reply to post by West Coast


Look at your computer your phone the chair your sitting on the pen in your hand there all prob made in china.

China is not where the US was in the 1950's cause this isnt the 50's china is far from what anything what the us was in its former glory.

It has missle/nukes that can take out satalites stealth subs one can imagine yes even stealth planes.

The US army in 1950 was around the same numbers 1-1.5 million in all services.

US had a national budget of a couple billion in the 1950's

China has 300 million + size army.

and a budget of trillions and trillions of dollars.

China has many nukes.

so how is china like 1950 america?

are the doing the hokey pokey and listening to the blues?Chinese elvis should be comming soon.

Originally posted by Equinox99
Plus, you have the Canadian forces who will help if US should get attacked, ...

Shhh, they aren't supposed to know about our forces. Remember officially, we only have 15 'on hand' fighters... 'officially'.
(Those fighters we sent to Afghanistan are a figment of your imagination... or the ones still in Canada are... your choice.)

I can say this. When the US's F15's designated to US Airspace defense were recalled for that defect a while back, they asked RCAF to patrol Alaska for them... we swarmed the airspace with way more than we 'officially' have... at the same time patrolled our own airspace.

I think we'd be pretty darned effective at holding the US if an attacking nation came in...
Unless we decide to be the invading nation. lol.

... err....
No, we don't have forces... pay no attention to the 50 pre-armed CF-118's in that condemned hanger over there. It's closed for safety reasons.

[edit on 1-2-2008 by johnsky]

Said another way, whats made in china is usually crap..

Obviously you don't build plastic models, where the Chinese companies like Dragon and Trumpeter are now competing with the Japanese manufacturers on a better-than-equal basis, something that's happened in an amazingly short period of time (2-3 years).

For that matter you probably don't build your own computers either - most PC parts are now made in China by Taiwanese owned companies.

Frankly, the US has only been the dominant world power since 1945, and while we still have a huge military, our "soft power" is rapidly declining. That's just the way the world is: if superpowers lasted forever, we'd all be writing our posts here in Latin.

I'd be very surprised if China doesn't surpass the US as the world's leading power by 2050. The US has fallen prey to arrogance and tunnel vision and is overreaching badly.

Originally posted by NWOmaskedman
China army = 350 million US army around 1 million to 1.5 total.

Only thing protecting US is a nucleur warhead. if not we woulda been taken out a long time ago.

China will crush the US the can lose 3 million men to 1 man of ours and still win.

The US can not defend against 350 million man army no country can. once china decides to take over it will be hard to stop.

period.

O please... on paper the chinese has that many in their "military" but in all seriousness how do you propose the 350 million troops get here, and on top of that feed and logistically support them. and how do you propose they get past our Navy/ AF?? so if you give it half a thought those 350 million troops are pretty much worthless other than protecting their own population.

If they were to get past our defenses and into our territory, they could have perhaps the biggest bloodbath ever known to history in terms of casualties.
I'm sure we have all heard of the movie Red Dawn? Multiply enemy casualties from the movie times 50, then again for every well armed American. Don't forget our buddies from Canada.
And of course our nukes mounted on ICBMs. I live near Arsenal Island in the North Western section of Illinois and Eastern Iowa.
A little fun fact, Arsenal Island is where the bazooka rocket launcher was invented.

For the stats on the Chinese and their military manpower capabilities, here is the entry in the CIA World Factbook:
www.cia.gov...

Military branches:
People's Liberation Army (PLA): Ground Forces, Navy (includes marines and naval aviation), Air Force (includes airborne forces), and Second Artillery Corps (strategic missile force); People's Armed Police (PAP); Reserve and Militia Forces (2006)

Military service age and obligation:
18-22 years of age for selective compulsory military service, with 24-month service obligation; no minimum age for voluntary service (all officers are volunteers); 18-19 years of age for women high school graduates who meet requirements for specific military jobs (2007)

Manpower available for military service:
males age 18-49: 342,956,265
females age 18-49: 324,701,244 (2005 est.)

Manpower fit for military service:
males age 18-49: 281,240,272
females age 18-49: 269,025,517 (2005 est.)

Manpower reaching military service age annually:
males age 18-49: 13,186,433
females age 18-49: 12,298,149 (2005 est.)

Military expenditures - percent of GDP:
4.3% (2006)

Enjoy.

Originally posted by TheOracle
There is very little oil in the US, all the US industries are moving to China and whoever "won" the USA would inherit trillions in debt.

There is actually more oil in US territory and waters then in the Middle East. We can also do what so many other countries have done and that is just nationalize all foreign investments and disregard any foreign debts for it all to disappear over night.

The world needs America, but America does not need the world. The world is just a conveniences to us since we are the breadbasket of the world. Survivability is not an issue, and just south is a country (Mexico) that would, could and should become the next “China” to America so that they can do the jobs we are unwilling to do at a price that keeps are lifestyle going without a hiccup. But the bottom line is we could do it all, but it is just cheaper for others to do it for us.

[edit on 1-2-2008 by Xtrozero]

Well, here is "the man's" side of the argument

Pentagon rejects report, says ready for WMD attack

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon on Friday insisted it is ready to respond to a chemical, biological or nuclear attack inside the United States, rejecting an independent panel's criticism of its preparations.

The best part of the article:

But the Pentagon conceded it is not yet satisfied with its plans to respond to some of the 15 catastrophic attack scenarios that federal agencies have been ordered to prepare for, such as a nuclear attack or a series of chemical attacks throughout the country.

Pentagon rejects reports
UHHHHHHHHH........... WHHHATTTT?????????? Is this not making sense to anyone else? So we can respond to one single event but not more than one? This seems backwards to me.

Originally posted by xmotex

Said another way, whats made in china is usually crap..

Obviously you don't build plastic models, where the Chinese companies like Dragon and Trumpeter are now competing with the Japanese manufacturers on a better-than-equal basis, something that's happened in an amazingly short period of time (2-3 years).

For that matter you probably don't build your own computers either - most PC parts are now made in China by Taiwanese owned companies.

Frankly, the US has only been the dominant world power since 1945, and while we still have a huge military, our "soft power" is rapidly declining. That's just the way the world is: if superpowers lasted forever, we'd all be writing our posts here in Latin.

I'd be very surprised if China doesn't surpass the US as the world's leading power by 2050. The US has fallen prey to arrogance and tunnel vision and is overreaching badly.

I guess you havent heart about all the toy recalls, pet food poisoning, tooth paste poisoning etc.....China faces a credibility crisis with much of its exports...that is fact. In other words. IT IS IN FACT CRAP!

Ive talked to a man who has been in the technology industries (working in china) for over 15 years. So i site him because he probably knows best..and what he said was not very promising in regards to chinas technological industrys. China puts on a good show...but in reality, they are barely staying afloat.. I liken the response of one of my other friends who lived in Shanghia... "It looks all nice and sparkly on the outside, but have you seen how its made" (referring to chinas weak infrastructure).

AS for china surpassing the US by the year 2050, regarding future growth, check out these GDP charts from BusinessWeek. note that this is PPP and not GDP per capita, which would take china nearly four times longer to catch up to the US.


Ofcourse, thats if chinas economic growth isnt being tainted with...

The below is an article from FT that i think you will find interesting.

In a little-noticed mid-summer announcement, the Asian Development Bank presented official survey results indicating China’s economy is smaller and poorer than established estimates say. The announcement cited the first authoritative measure of China’s size using purchasing power parity methods. The results tell us that when the World Bank announces its expected PPP data revisions later this year, China’s economy will turn out to be 40 per cent smaller than previously stated.

This more accurate picture of China clarifies why Beijing concentrates so heavily on domestic priorities such as growth, public investment, pollution control and poverty reduction. The number of people in China living below the World Bank’s dollar-a-day poverty line is 300m – three times larger than currently estimated.
www.ft.com...

reply to post by palehorse23

When it came to responding to a nuclear attack, a series of dirty bomb attacks, an aerosolized anthrax attack or a series of chemical weapons attacks throughout the country, the current plans were inadequate, McHale said.

"That is a candid recognition, a blunt recognition that we are not where we need to be," he said.

McHale dismissed the harsh criticism directed at the Defense Department on Thursday by the Commission on the National Guard and Reserve and its chairman, retired Marine Corps Maj. Gen. Arnold Punaro.

Punaro called planning for a domestic attack "totally unacceptable." The commission was especially worried about an "appalling" lack of trained troops for that role.

This just simply comes down to policy.

So you're telling us, Mr. Pentagon, that because your war has to be fought with our blood in foreign countries, the American people must remain unprepared and unprotected for future disasters that you, yourselves perpetuated upon us with your own disastrous foreign policy?

Man, this just gets better by the minute.

Can't focus the National Guard on domestic duties, because it would then take a draft to support your wallet. That's just great, that is.

Originally posted by NWOmaskedman
Look at your computer your phone the chair your sitting on the pen in your hand there all prob made in china.

China is not where the US was in the 1950's cause this isnt the 50's china is far from what anything what the us was in its former glory.

You misunderstood me, maybe i wasnt clear enough, china will be "considered" a developed nation by 2015...

It has missle/nukes that can take out satalites

Which the US and USSR have been able to do for the past few decades now..

Rest assured, theyre are defensive capabilities the US could and probably does employ to keep its satilites safe, like putting them out further into space, or retrofitting them with defense measures such as lasers etc. And who knows what Americas true capabilities are? Gary mckinnon has some interesting claims..

stealth subs one can imagine yes even stealth planes.

Care to point me to the source that validates this claim?

The US army in 1950 was around the same numbers 1-1.5 million in all services.

US had a national budget of a couple billion in the 1950's

China has 300 million + size army.

and a budget of trillions and trillions of dollars.

China has many nukes.

so how is china like 1950 america?

are the doing the hokey pokey and listening to the blues?Chinese elvis should be comming soon.

[edit on 1-2-2008 by West Coast]

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by TheOracle
There is very little oil in the US, all the US industries are moving to China and whoever "won" the USA would inherit trillions in debt.

There is actually more oil in US territory and waters then in the Middle East. We can also do what so many other countries have done and that is just nationalize all foreign investments and disregard any foreign debts for it all to disappear over night.

The world needs America, but America does not need the world. The world is just a conveniences to us since we are the breadbasket of the world. Survivability is not an issue, and just south is a country (Mexico) that would, could and should become the next “China” to America so that they can do the jobs we are unwilling to do at a price that keeps are lifestyle going without a hiccup. But the bottom line is we could do it all, but it is just cheaper for others to do it for us.

[edit on 1-2-2008 by Xtrozero]

Well said! Also India, is another option to counter china as an export nation. But your right, mexico should get more of a look. Make things a bit better off there, they wont be coming here then.

Sadly this was evident a couple years back when it was being reported that reserve and national guard equipment was being worn out in Iraq and not being replaced. It was also in the news last year when those tornadoes tore such a big swath in Kansas and the governor said that he didn't have the manpower or equipment to respond with because of the Iraq war.

Yet one more way bush minor and his cronies have throughly messed this country up. Yeah right they are the only ones who know how to make us safer.

Lying bastards.

reply to post by grover


California sure could have used a few more of its National Guard (like they used to!) to help fight its 2007 wildfires.

I remember the reason given during Reagan's use of troops in Central America, and believed by his staunch supporters, that "alien hordes" would "mass on the borders" and come marching into the US Jeez, a silly notion then even. No, wait, hordes did mass on the borders, for the jobs in the maquiladores.

The US having a great military has also been a great show piece to sell military hardware to other countries. Gotta keep up with the (insert name).

I would be more watchful of an internal attack. So sadly we're not prepared to fully deal with one. Security, like charity, begins at home. Nationally as well as individually. (Remember the old bomb shelters?)

Despicable that the National Guard is sent across the border, using a ruse that they are still protecting our national interest, just that its not inside the nation. Seward's Folly turned out to not be one. The Iraq invasion will turn out to be Bush's Folly. Having your attack dog run loose to piss in your neighbors yard is not a good idea, if you're attacked at home.

You guys are crazy.
It was exactly this type of wishful thinking that got your asses kicked in Vietnam.
A series of small bands placed around the country, using the right techniques, could take over in a matter of years.
Just as long as someone can get on the inside of your country, they can win. I mean just how willing are the US going to be to put a nuclear warhead down on one of their own cities?
Actually, that question's probably better left unanswered...

reply to post by PeaceUk


I have to agree with this slant. Joined the military and said that half of the crap that has happened wouldnt. 20 years later, I now say that anything is possible.

As for [Actually, that question's probably better left unanswered...] you win the award for the "tongue-in-cheek" quote...cheers!]


[edit on 3-2-2008 by sir_stinky_pinky]

reply to post by PeaceUk


The thing is for an insurgency to work it has to be part of a domestic populations, a bunch of ( foreign nation, fill as applicable) in any American city would stick out like a saw thumb and be unsupported by the local population.