Originally posted by harrytuttle
This logic you are using is faulty. So, if killing is wrong, is it always wrong? Of course not. We can all think of situations like where killing
an aggressor to protect our innocent family is not "wrong".
If lying is wrong, is it always wrong?
If speeding is wrong, is it always wrong?
Those are good points. ANY sweeping generalization would paint with too broad a brush. Maybe I should refine my statement and say that it DOES
depend on the reason for stealing.
As always, we all make decisions by weighing in the balance the harm done versus the good to be gained.
If you believe that even in a worst case scenario-X (as is being discussed here) it is more wrong to secure supplies from an abandoned
corporate store than it is to let your family starve or freeze to death, then you are either being completely disingenuous or haven't really given it
too much thought. Or perhaps you are just too well trained.
I didn't say that at all. Again, abandoned
property cannot be stolen--merely salvaged. And wer're not really focusing on that.
Look, if someone in your group needed insulin, I'd help you break into a deserted pharmacy to get it. Is someone in your group needed food, and we
had it, I'd share it with you, as long as our medium range chances of survival were not seriously lessened.
If a hoarder had that insulin, and refused to share it, or was demanding a ridiculous price, I'd help you get it on better terms. Even at
But again, that's not looting.
Looting is where, in the wake of a hurricane, you break into empty houses and take stuff. Not just the food (which would spoil anyway), but their
TV's, their jewelry, their PS2. THAT's looting.
I don't think anyone would fault you for stealing tools or car parts in order to escape the emergency. The problem is where the owner is still using
them, and you take them anyway, that the problems begin.
In the riots in 1992 in LA, a few grocery stores were looted. But a lot more liquor stores and appliance stores were looted. Its a safe bet to say
that the value of all bread stolen was exceeded by the value of the looted stereos and beer.
Either way, I feel sorry for those that would look to you for protection if they needed it.
Why? because I'm so well prepared that I don't NEED become a social parasite?
Another point that hasn't been addressed in this therad is that the greatest risk of violence is exactly where looters are fighting over the last of
the booty. Personally, I wouldn't want to set foot in a store where the windows were smashed and there were goods scattered and burning in the
And if you think I'm being naive in my stance, consider the french revolution. The whole thing started in Paris, when the official price of bread
was raised yet again. A crowd outside a bake shop broke into the store. The "customers" took a loaf of bread each off the shelf, and left the
on the shelf. This went on for most of the summer. The bakers began to accept it, and go through the ritual of baking the break,
and letting "customers" take it for the old price.
Eventually, though, a crowd was hauling bread out of a bakery, and someone, instead of leaving the old price, left no money at all. Pretty soon, the
crowd that had already paid went back and picked up their money too. Soon, people began breaking into stores and grabbing everything. Then churches
and houses. Next they began killing each other to settle old scores. Finally, a group of extremists took control and ended the violence through
"the reign of terror."
Look, we all do what we have to. But even attacking corporate property is a first, slight, step down the road to anarchy. Look at the neighborhoods
where the riots happened in LA 15 years ago. The chief problem is they cannot get any groceries to open in those areas--no one wants to invest in an
area with a track record of looting.
Likewise New Orleans. Their biggest problem after the cleanup is getting people to move back into the empty city. But the whole world saw those
pictures of the Superdome, and dead bodies floating in the floodwater, and heard about hospitals being looted and policemen deserting their posts.
Civilization ends where we each sacrifice the common end for our own betterment. We are already pretty far along that path in the West. Deficit
spending by liberal democracies is merely a legal example of "looting" on a massive scale.
If you end up stealing all the useful books out of the libraries, when do you think there will be another library in your town?
I agree that survival always comes first, but the people that looted and later burned the library of alexandria were thinking the same thing.
The word republic is from the latin "res publica," literally "this public thing." And this public endeavor is over, the republic is ended, when
we begin looting the libraries and hospitals, when we steal from "the public" to save ourselves.
Maybe its not really the cause. Maybe it's just a symptom.
Do you know the name of the tribes that finally killed off the roman empire?
They were called . . . the vandals.
all the best.