Lou Dobbs alert: Illegal immigrants may get rebates

Lou Dobbs alert: Illegal immigrants may get rebates

www.politico.com

In their bipartisan zeal to quickly cut a deal on an economic stimulus bill, GOP lawmakers overlooked something that will certainly inflame the conservative base _ illegal immigrants could receive a tax rebate check from the government.

But late Wednesday, the Senate Finance Committee was scrambling to fix the problem _ contained in the House bill _ by only allowing taxpayers using legitimate Social Security numbers to receive rebates.

(visit the link for the full news article)

For the first time, I find myself saying, if someone is illegal, but they pay taxes, why shouldn't they get a rebate?

Honestly, I'm not sure what to think here.



www.politico.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

ya know, I've think I might have a good purpose for these rebates, outside of blowing it on cheap worthless imported crap!!!

what is really irking you about the way the government does things...
to me, it's that the gov't lets a some group of people that they know full well exist, struggle on, offering very little experience, simply because their pay is too much for the aide, and not enough for the basic necessities of life. the pay taxes so other's "less fortunate" can have these things, but find the same things out of reach for themselves.

yours might be something else.

but well, the usual reponse people give when one it complaining about not being able to afford healthcare or whatever...the ones that are in this little group, well, they are told to go to school, or critisized for being losers, or told that they should make themselves more valuable to society....ya the ones that see airheads like brittney spears and the like so ohhh valuable!!
well, was wondering, what if some of us, who really care about this small group and care about the effects overall on our society and our economy because they are allowed to exist, picked out a week, and we all took that week off of work...a strike so to speak. that rebate check will more than likelly pay for that week of lost pay for many of us, and well, we won't be doing what the gov't thinks we're gonna do...ahhh, yes, a nice little wrench thrown into the gears of an overmanipulated economy!!, and well, and can a wake up call to everyone just how valuable our services are!!!

but this would work for others, we could have weeks and weeks of people opting to take time off work....for whatever injustice they feel that is worthy of that rebate money!

[edit on 31-1-2008 by dawnstar]

If they are Illegal then they should get nothing. Just the word illegal should tell you something. Since when is it ok to give away money that was taken from your income tax and given to someone who is here ILLEGALLY. So they pay state tax and taxes on goods purchased. So do we. But they do not pay into INCOME Tax. Which is where the money comes from. I wish Ron Paul would post here.


[edit on 1/31/2008 by zman]

[edit on 1/31/2008 by zman]

Paul votes against economic stimulus package
www.prisonplanet.com...


Paul stressed this week he is in favor of taxpayers getting some of their money back, but added that “temporary tax cuts and one-time rebates will not ‘fix’ the economy.... Sending out checks and cutting interest rates yet again is merely a shot in the arm when in actuality, the economy needs major surgery.

reply to post by zman


Yes, I do agree with you, but I interpreted the artical a little different. I thought they were talking about the ones that actually do pay Federal taxes:

But every year, hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants use individual taxpayer identification numbers, known as ITINs, to file income tax returns with the IRS. These ID numbers are used instead of Social Security numbers.

source

That's what I'm having trouble with.





[edit on 31-1-2008 by seawolf197]

reply to post by zman


People that use an ITIN are usually in the country legally and either going through the process of getting permanent residency (takes about 6 years on average), or working here temporarily. Either way, they are not eligible for any benefits like medicare, foodstamps or social security even though they're paying federal taxes on their income and state taxes on all their purchases. "Illegal" immigrants go straight for the fake or stolen social security numbers so they can get the benefits of real citizens.

So once again, we're rewarding those that break the laws and punishing those that try to do it right.

reply to post by mythatsabigprobe


Yes, I believe you are correct.

We will now see a lot of $600 checks intended to help our economy head straight down to mexico.

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
People that use an ITIN are usually in the country legally and either going through the process of getting permanent residency (takes about 6 years on average), or working here temporarily. Either way, they are not eligible for any benefits like medicare, foodstamps or social security even though they're paying federal taxes on their income and state taxes on all their purchases.

I do not believe this is accurate. The whole point of the ITIN program was to allow illegals who couldn't legally obtain a Social Security number a way to file returns and secure any overpayment of federal income taxes withheld. A good number of illegals had withholding taken from their pay, but because they are claiming children they owed no tax at the end of the year and without filing a return, couldn't get back what they paid in. It also served the purpose of preventing illegals from using "fake" SSNs and from getting the earned income credit.

As far as whether illegals should get the rebate or not - I feel the same way about them as I do anyone else who may end up being eligible for the credit. It should be limited to what an individual actually PAID in income taxes and not another negative income tax, similar to EITC.


B.

irs.gov itin

[edit on 2/3/08 by Bleys]

Originally posted by seawolf197


For the first time, I find myself saying, if someone is illegal, but they pay taxes, why shouldn't they get a rebate?

Honestly, I'm not sure what to think here.

www.politico.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

For the most part they don't.. well.. they pay into the tax system, but typically get back far more then they put in. When I worked with Mexicans it was like Christmas.. I remember one guy had 3 kids living in Mexico, but claimed them as dependants on American taxes.. so when he pays in $700 into taxes, and gets back 3-4k dollars, its a pretty good investment. If they work under the table, they don't pay any at all, but most do, and most get back most or all or many times far above what they put in..

Generally if you make under 20k a year anyways you only pay in 10% or so, which is 1-200 dollars..

No, they should not get the rebate, because they won't pay it back (you do.. if you did not know.. have to pay this back next year.) But also for the simple fact that they are not supposed to be here.. so why reward them?

No, the purpose of ITINs are not "to allow illegals who couldn't legally obtain a Social Security number a way to file returns and secure any overpayment of federal income taxes withheld." It is for the following groups of people who are legally in the United States but are not currently holders of SSNs.

Who needs an ITIN?
IRS issues ITINs to foreign nationals and others who have federal tax reporting or filing requirements and do not qualify for SSNs. A non-resident alien individual not eligible for an SSN, who is required to file a U.S. tax return only to claim a refund of tax under the provisions of a U.S. tax treaty, needs an ITIN.
Examples of individuals who need ITINs include:

* Non-resident alien filing a U.S. tax return and not eligible for an SSN
* U.S. resident alien (based on days present in the United States) filing a U.S. tax return and not eligible for an SSN
* Dependent or spouse of a U.S. citizen/resident alien
* Dependent or spouse of a non-resident alien visa holder

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
No, the purpose of ITINs are not "to allow illegals who couldn't legally obtain a Social Security number a way to file returns and secure any overpayment of federal income taxes withheld." It is for the following groups of people who are legally in the United States but are not currently holders of SSNs.

Purpose of the law and how it has been interpreted and carried out is another thing. It is a case of woulda, shoulda, coulda but there is nothing to prevent illegals from obtaining them and in fact they are....

The IRS issued 1.5 million ITINs in 2006 — a 30 percent increase from the previous year. All told, the tax liability of ITIN filers between 1996 and 2003 was $50 billion. The agency has no way to track how many were immigrants, but it’s widely believed most people using ITINS are in the United States illegally. msnbc

But more importantly is from the IRS's own site

Filing with an ITIN --
• The IRS issues ITINs for federal tax purposes, and ITINs should be used for tax reporting only.
• ITINs do not authorize a person to work in the U.S. or provide eligibility for Social Security benefits.
• Tax returns filed with an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number reporting wages paid are required to show the Social Security Number under which the wages were earned. This creates an identification number (ITIN/SSN) mismatch. In the past, returns with this mismatch could only be filed on paper. Due to programming changes the IRS' e-file system can now accept these returns. The taxpayer's correct ITIN should be used as the identifying number at the top of Form 1040. When inputting W-2 information, the SSN should be entered exactly as shown on the Form W-2 issued by the employer. It is now possible to e-file a return with an ITIN/SSN mismatch.

If this doesn't specifically spell out that "yes, we know you lied to your employer and gave him someone else's social security number but we want you to file with the ITIN and just ignore that you have a fake ssn."

I worked with the Feds about 12 years ago when the ITIN program was first in place. Basically we were told issue an ITIN for every birth certificate filed regardless of country of origin and regardless of whether it appeared to be genuine. And to make matters worse because of the backlog some people sent in duplicate requests for ITINs and were issued two different sets of ITINs for themselves and their dependents. Nobody cared because at the time the whole point was to prevent illegals from getting EITC. The thinking being - it is okay to allow someone to receive an overpayment of taxes they had paid but entirely another to receive the refundable earned income tax credit.

So imho, they can word it anyway they want but if you read the quote it leaves no doubt what the intent is here.

B.

And not to beat a dead horse but you have sites specifically designed to assist with working the system. This one tells illegals that an ITIN should be obtained so that an individual can better establish themselves in this country.

Many illegal immigrants come to the United States to achieve the American dream. Part of the American dream is to purchase a home and to increase one’s financial well-being.......Immigrants wanting to buy a home need to have a special tax ID referred to as the ITIN. The ITIN or individual tax identification number is proof that an individual pays taxes to the IRS or Internal Revenue Service. The IRS began issuing ITINs in the mid 1990s for individuals who were not eligible to obtain a Social Security number but that needed to declare their income and pay taxes. Obtaining an ITIN, a nine digit number for tax purposes, is a relatively easy process since legal residency in the Unites States is not a requirement. A large number of illegal immigrants seeking to become permanent residents obtain ITINs in order to show the USCIS in the future that they have been paying taxes while residing in the United States.

full source can be found here

B.

Bleys:

If this doesn't specifically spell out that "yes, we know you lied to your employer and gave him someone else's social security number but we want you to file with the ITIN and just ignore that you have a fake ssn."

Are you saying what I think you are saying here? The IRS knows that they are taking money from known illegals?

[edit on 3-2-2008 by seawolf197]