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The future of war...

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posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 07:54 PM
This is a look at the past politics of our planets wars, what they meant to the people and what we ultimately achieved.

Unfortunately, what we have achieved is very little in comparison to the amount of time an deaths it has taken us to get where we are today. So, we’re going to go on a little time traveling trip to take a look at some of the events that brought us to this point and will, of course, lead us to tomorrow’s wars.

Firstly, my point of view on war is that war is nothing more than an agreement by the governing power of a country to legally murder people and steal property by the means of advanced weaponry and fear tactics enforced by the mask of “Our God(s) will give us victory”.

The Roman Republic Empire

The Romans built a vast Empire, so we are led to believe. We should say that the Romans murdered, pillaged, raped and enslaved all who stood in their way. Roman tactics and equipment were, by most standards, superior. The glory that was Rome empowered the soldiers to make an unparalleled achievement. The conquering of Europe.

I’m going to use Julius Caesar as our first example. Quite fitting I feel.

Gaius Julius Caesar was born on 12 July 100 BC in Rome, son of Gaius Caesar and Aurelia. Governor of Gaul 58-49 BC. Appointed dictator for ten years in 47 B, for life on 14 February 44 BC. Married initially to Cornelia (one daughter, Julia), then to Pompeia, alas to Calpurnia. Assassinated on 15 March 44 BC. Deified in 42 BC.

From an early age Caesar wanted more for himself than that which his father thought was to be his place. Upon the death of his father, Caesar married into money and politics and began bribing his way up through the political ranks and on into history.

He knew that money was the way into the already corrupt political arena and he didn’t have too much trouble getting there either. He spent some time being educated in rhetoric and was said to be a fine speaker.

Caesar progressed and was spending a lot of money on bribes, gladiator battles, shows, banquets and any other way he could find. His popularity began to soar.


The Helvetians were easily defeated by Caesar after the Germanic tribes had forced the Helvetians out of their mountainous homelands.

The Germans were a bit of a handful though as they were backed up by the Sueves and Swabians. The Germanic army entered Gaul and Caesar was having none of it.

To Caesars advantage, he learned the Germans believed they would be defeated if they fought before the new moon. Caesar set upon them immediately and slaughtered many.

Caesar continued to make attacks in Germany and built a bridge in ten days to cross the Rhine. Mostly to frighten the Germans with the advanced technology the Romans possessed, the bridge was used to launch many attacks.

But the Senate was angry with Caesar as Caesar was doing everything without due process and legal procession through the Senate. The Caesar focused his attention on Britain and word got out that he was fighting unknown warriors in far off lands. The Senate was furious.

Further battles ensued and then the Senate revoked Caesars position of governor of Gaul.
Bad move. Caesar eventually gave up on political niceties and in 49 BC Caesar crossed the Rubicon. Caesar conquered Rome but destroyed exactly that which he was after, political power.

Declaring a state of emergency, he became a temporary dictator with absolute power. Eventually, he was confirmed as Dictator whilst he was in the East.

Adolf Hitler

Describing his early years, Hitler said he was an argumentative ring leader who liked to hang around with ‘husky’ boys. After reading a picture book on the war of 1870-1871 between the Germans and the French, Hitler said that he became more and more fascinated by every aspect of war and his enthusiasm to be a soldier swelled greatly.

At the age of 11, Adolf’s 6 year old brother died of measles and was buried in the cemetery next to Adolfs house and it was often said that Adolf would sit at the window overlooking the cemetery and he would be staring at the stars.

Adolf wanted to be an artist, but his father wanted to send him to a technical school, this caused major arguments and his schooling suffered, eventually he was held back a year.
Adolf found this to be of a great advantage as he was again the ring leader.

Eventually Hitler joined the army to serve in world war 1, which was kicked off by the assassination of the heir to the Austrian Empire. Hitler’s overflowing patriotism sent him off to Ypres. Two Iron crosses, a wounding and four years in the trenches eventually earnt him a trip home.

After the war, Hitler was recruited into the Press and Propaganda Department of Group Command IV of the Reichswehr (military intellgence) and he had to keep an eye on the German Worker's Party.

This was Hitler stepping stone. He soon became an active member through his growing hatred for the Jews. The party soon became a political party, thanks to Hitler.

As chairman of the NSDAP, he came into contact with Ludendorff, Gottfried Feder (1883-1941), Ernst Röhm (1887-1934), and Dietrich Eckart (1868-1923), whose influence was reflected in Hitler's thought: Gottfried Feder ("Break the bond of interest"), Ernst Röhm (the concept of the "state in arms") and Dietrich Erkart (anti-communism). With the assistance of party staff, Hitler drafted a party program consisting of twenty-five points. This platform was presented at a public meeting on February 24, 1920, with over 2,000 eager participants. After hecklers were forcibly removed by Hitler supporters armed with rubber truncheons and whips, Hitler electrified the audience with his masterful demagoguery. Jews were the principal target of his diatribe. Among the 25 points more negative points were the abrogation of the Versailles Treaty, confiscating war profits, expropriating land without compensation for use by the state, revoking civil rights for Jews, and expelling those Jews who had emigrated into Germany after the war began. The right of the establishment of self-determination for all Germans and equal rights for their state, and the destruction of the "bondage of interest." The DAP was renamed the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 07:57 PM
The red flag with the swastika was adopted as the party symbol. Hitler was to lead a few protest rallies and thousands of people began joining his party, particularly after the price of an egg had risen to 30 million times its original value.

Hitler’s book, Mein Kampf, mainly outlined his hatred of the Jews and blamed them for such things as democracy, communism and internationalism.
He wrote;

"[The Jews'] ultimate goal is the denaturalization, the promiscuous bastardization of other peoples, the lowering of the racial level of the highest peoples as well as the domination of his racial mishmash through the extirpation of the volkish intelligentsia and its replacement by the members of his own people"

From then on Hitler used oratory to masses of people saying, among other things, that the German Empire would rule the world for 1,000 years. Brown and blackshirts, the Hitler youth and the league of German girls were formed according to the fuhrer principle.

President Hindenburg died in 1934 and Hitler, after beating other runners, became Dictator. His political views were strong and many.

On March 23, 1933, the Reichstag passed the Enabling Act, which gave dictatorial authority to Hitler's cabinet for four years. Armed with full powers, Hitler moved to eliminate all possible centers of opposition. His policy is known as Gleichschaltung, which translates literally as coordination. In this context, however, it meant more precisely subordination, that is, subordinating all independent institutions to the authority of Hitler and the Nazi Party.

the Enabling Act is the last measure which the Reichstag passed under the republican and democratic Constitution of the Republic. It spelled its end and the beginning of National Socialist dictatorship.
Article 1. Laws of the Reich can also be promulgated by the Reich government apart from the method prescribed by the Constitution.
Article 2. Laws decided upon by the government of the Reich can depart from the Constitution of the Reich, in so far as they do not touch the existence as such, of such institutions as the Reichstag and the Reichsrat. The rights of the Reichspresident remain untouched....
Article 4. Treaties of the Reich with foreign powers which have reference to matters concerning the laws of the Reich, do not need the consent of the bodies which had part in the making of such laws, as long as this present law is valid.
Article 5. This law is in force on the day of its promulgation. It is abrogated on April 1, 1937; it is further abrogated if the present government of the Reich is replaced by another.

World war two began and many suffered. I am sure I do not have to go into too much detail as to the atrocities that were eventually discovered. We are all aware that millions of people died.

And so, we come to modern time, our time and President Bush.

If you’ve been following the worlds latest happenings with the attack on the twin towers, the war on terrorism, the New World Order (NWO), the Patriot act, RFID , CCTV, National Identity cards and many other forms of control, not forgetting the lies by the ‘powers that be’ that took us into this dictatorial empirical regime, then you will have an understanding as to how yesteryears attempts by previous dictators have honed the practices of the new leaders.

The Romans technical advantage was bolstered by its vast Empire and helped to spread new ideas. Roman roads became an icon. Their education system grew and progressed as time went on. From being taught at home to major colleges was major step forward in their advancement. The military were the police force. The Roman Empire lasted 1101 years. The Roman Legion was the cutting edge of military combat at the time. They built aquaducts, theaters and more that some still use today.

Of course a lot of other things happened, like the industrial revolution, that in our minds, surpassed anything the Romans achieved, yet some of the most major advances come about during war time.

World war two gave us rocketry, advanced aircraft, missiles, radar, computers, genetics. A lot of this new technology has spilled over into our every day living.

So what’s the point of all this. The point is that after just over 2000 years, we are still corrupt. We have yet to find a form of government we can all trust and truly believe in. We still have republicans, democrats, communism and dictators. Absolutely nothing has changed on the political front.

Wars are started by our political leaders to force change. To force financial prosperity and personal gain for those in control.

It was my post in another thread that led me to write this. The thread was about robots being used for war.'

This was my thoughts on the matter;
“Robots to fight wars are only effective if your opponent does not have robots to fight wars.

A robot to robot war will just verify the complete pointlessness of war.

A robot to robot war would only be decided by which side has the most money and/or the best scientists/engineers. And would the war stop if all the opponents robots were destroyed?

After a war is over, robots would be no better use than to control a population.
Perhaps even yourselves controlled by the same robots that fought for your 'country'.”

Just where would politics stand on such an issue as a draw in a bot to bot war?
Are robots the fate that will end the legal murder of millions of people and the legal theft of natural resources. Is a no win situation the defining limit of 2000 years of political hypocrisy and lies.

We don’t need a NWO. We don’t want a ‘one world government’. We want something that is non political that everyone can happily agree on. It is the politicians that start these wars, and the people are left to fight and die in them. When will we learn?

posted on Feb, 8 2008 @ 03:43 PM
If memory serves, Clausewitz said something about war being an extention of politics. Your idealism is commendable, but I think your reasoning is misdirected. War is more than a license to plunder.

Once upon a time, wars were fought over trivial things. Your king insulted mine, so we're gonna fight. then they were fought for religous reasons. Eventialy, things became economic AND philosophical.

In ever ywar, there is an agressor and a defender.

Was Darius wrong to oppose Alexander?

Was it wrong for Versengetrix to oppose Caesar?

How wrong was Suladin to oppose the crusaders?

Would it have been morally and ethically "right" for the U.S. to stay out of World War One?

Somebody had to stand up to Hiter...didn't they?

If you want to oppose war, you can't be so broad in your thinking that you'll condemn any and all. This isn't an all or none question.

posted on Feb, 8 2008 @ 04:37 PM
reply to post by Justin_Case

You do have some valid points there, and I agree. This is why I didn't mention 'smaller' wars as a vast majority were not politically motivated. Though some have been driven by nothing more than politics.

Yes, somebody had to stop Hitler. But that didn't stop Royal, political and business people of the countries that opposed him from helping out or supporting him and his machine.

IBM supplied the punch cards that organised the mass murder of many.
President Bush's grandfather was involved in the financial backing of Hitlers campaign. And the list goes on.

I was trying to show how politics has not changed, yet the manner of how war is designed and carried out and the equipment used has made massive leaps and bounds.

In todays world, this could only be done through political power sharing and financial gains.

Looking at false flag operations and the large amount of lies involved in the current Iraq war have led to the image that it is nothing more than a land grab for the oil beneath. Oil companies are hand in hand with some of the worlds major governments, especially when you take a look at the oil fields the Bush family own in partnership with the Bin Laden family.

Increasingly we are seeing automated machines being made available for every aspect of life. Is this why our governments still have not changed, why the same ideals still hold like they have done for many years?

Yes, laws change, but the practice and message of governments remains almost unchanged.

This non changing approach keeps the people 'in line' while the world advances beyond them so a position occurs where there is no work available, robots do it all. There wont be a free voice as we'll all be under ID cards, RFID chips and a 'one world government'.

So what's the point of robotic military equipment that our governments spend trillions of dollars on, which is everyones hard earned tax money. The only point has to be further land grabbing and destruction of foreign governments, minimizing the deaths of your own people, maximising the slaughter of 'terrorists' and gaining control over areas that will come under the rule of the dictator of that time.

If there were a country with similar technology that was on a par, then many innocent will die in a battle that has little true importance to their lives.

We cannot choose which country we were born into. The politics of that country is only valid if you believe it to be. Otherwise it's a load of hot air being belched by those who want power and control.

Two major powers fighting a battle with robots will both ultimately lose. Not only will they destroy their financial selves, but they'll destroy the idea and point of war. A robotic war could go on for an unimaginable amount of time. Especially if nano bots are involved and can self repair in the field. The machines would never stop.

Yes, one side will be fighting oppression, the other fighting for total control, But a robotic war that may not end is the ultimate terror of the innocent lives it's designed to protect or enslave.

The only thing that can change this is a complete rehash of politics and governments and to reduce our desire to have power, wealth and control over others.

And thank you for your post, I know you're one of the 'big boys' on this political side of the site.

[edit on 8-2-2008 by Extralien]

posted on Feb, 8 2008 @ 08:21 PM
I understand your point, but there will always be evil in this world. Robots and drones might be in our future. They are with us now. Never forget that one person's tool of conquest is another persons tool to fight for their own freedom.

posted on Feb, 9 2008 @ 12:25 AM
Oh, I'm fully aware of the saying 'one mans poison is another mans food'.

And as an example how the mood of politics can influence the people during a war, the stalemate that was the battle of Stalingrad otherwise known as 'the war of the rats' was turned around by the propaganda that propelled Vasili Zaitsev to hero status and the eventual victory for the Russian city.

Also you have the use of Winston Churchill's speeches and the image of the "V for victory" hand sign he gave.

Both of these examples far outweighed anything Hitler could say but most of his 'power' came from money and the enforcement of fear. Money and fear were his political weapons.

Russians and British were instilled with 'the will to win'. This gave them an 'edge' when faced with the might of the Nazi war machine, which at the time, was far superior than any weapons the allies had.

If I remember correctly also, Hitler was quoted as saying, "If I had German machinery and British soldiers I would have won."

He realised that he had far better technology, but it was the political instilled 'goodness' of the British soldiers will to fight that his army was lacking.
German soldiers were faced with a choice, die fighting here or we send you to the Russian front.

The political superiority complex of the Nazi war machine was its weak point. Its strength was its technology, especially whn the V! and V2 rockets came into production along with the jet propelled aircraft ME262.

This all came too late though, which was a surprising bonus for America seeing as they took all the German rocket scientists back to the USA, gave them immunity and set up NASA. And it's odd to note that the engines on the space shuttle are the based on the original designs of Von Braun and the rest of the Nazi German scientists.... but that's another thread in itself.

Ultimately, it's the 'business as usual' mentality of the political engine that has to change, but I can't see that happening until someone or something comes along that can stop the financial gravy train and the greed for power, as I've said before.

posted on Feb, 9 2008 @ 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Extralien
Ultimately, it's the 'business as usual' mentality of the political engine that has to change, but I can't see that happening until someone or something comes along that can stop the financial gravy train and the greed for power, as I've said before.

And why...most of us are here on Above Politics. We search for the way to do things by talking to each other.

I think we have options we haven't used yet. We don't have a viable third party in America becuase the need for it isn't real enough just yet.

We do have Presidential candidates on both sides of the aisle who are riding massive waves of populist desire that are pushing for a few grains of change.

We are facing an economic crisis that will force certain reality to be acknowledged.

Domestic and international events are happening in such a way that change will come to us whether we want it or not. In many respects, old institutions are crumbling.

To my mind, all of this sets the stage for a little bit of that change you're looking for.

posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 03:26 AM
reply to post by Extralien

Excellent thread, applause to both of you guys

I think we as a human race have not advanced enough to live in true harmony.
Pure Anarchy the ability to live with out governments.

posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 03:24 AM
War has been called the most profitable business in the world. Can we stop violent people, who want to take advantage of the disadvantaged people (weak & ignorant children of men)?

[edit on 22-3-2008 by Chad Andrew]

posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 08:18 AM
Just to add to this topic is a prime example of what can happen with the use of robots in war.

Please read this news link and you'll soon understand how politics and finances have come into control of an on going war.

I had no idea that these robots were even deployed in Iraq until I just read this news and it proves my point on how most major technological advancements are brought out into the public eye during times of war.

And the political excuse is "to save lives"...

Well, read my comments in the news link

posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 11:53 AM

Originally posted by Chad Andrew
War has been called the most profitable business in the world. Can we stop violent people, who want to take advantage of the disadvantaged people (weak & ignorant children of men)?

[edit on 22-3-2008 by Chad Andrew]

The only way I see that happening is humanity is wiped out and doesn't exist anymore.

Or the violent nature of people is gone.

posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 12:22 PM
Robots, religion and money are not the answer. Neither is the influenced idea of personal wealth amongst many other examples.

It would take a major shift of peoples minds to actually get that kind of world.
How could that be done?

Take away everything everyone owns?
Destroy the governments and money and let society crumble while you hide out and let everyone else kill each other off?
Become rich and powerful, buy a few nukes, wipe the world clean and start again on your own little island somewhere?
Or even getting a prime time slot on all major TV networks to send out your message... which would mainly be "What's the problem"?

I believe it is possible to do and there is a way to do it. More evidence does seem to be surfacing to suggest that we are not the worlds first major historical civilisation and that we are just another example of the human race. It appears there were others before us who had an amazing life time, what with all the seemingly identical approaches to all the worlds major ancient stone pyramid shaped temples and structures and other important earth works.

Some believe that the knowledge left behind by these ancient cultures is what is being kept secret from us so that the mighty corporations and banks etc can maintain their control on us.

Maybe it is the lessons and teachings of those before us that are the key to finding a more enlightened path for all mankind and maybe, one day, this will be revealed.. sooner the better IMHO

posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 09:14 PM
Okay, just came across this thread and found it intriguing

Originally posted by Chad Andrew
War has been called the most profitable business in the world. Can we stop violent people, who want to take advantage of the disadvantaged people (weak & ignorant children of men)?

[edit on 22-3-2008 by Chad Andrew]

War is probally the most profitable business in the world, because corrupt goverments flourish off of the riches. I still cannot see why people want to kill each other over a few insults thrown and land at stake. I mean, I don't think anyone here would start a war, even if it was based on the idea that you could steal millions of dollars in the process.

Our moral values handed down by our fathers and leaders have not carried on. We as a civilization need to step back and take a third-person view of themselves. The violence, and the neglect of thousands of the poor dying of sickness, starvation, and neglect.

Anyone who realizes this is responsible for it. If we do not take action, the problem will not fix its self. Evil will always contiune to exist in the World, but it can be suppressed it we as a species try.

I do not know if you have read, "The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas" by Ursula K. Le Guin. But it provides a perfect meatphor for todays society.

In the story, Omelas is a utopian city of happiness and delight, whose inhabitants are smart and cultured. Everything about Omelas is pleasing, except for the secret of the city: the good fortune of Omelas requires that an unfortunate child be kept in filth, darkness and misery, and that all her citizens know of this on coming of age.

It provides a metaphor for today's society of Americans. We cannot stand to look at the poor/unkept. We bath in the riches of society while a small minorty must suffer for our pleasures and gains.

I have shown this story to many and they end the story, and look at me with a blank face of confusion. Many of them do not reconize the metaphor, and when I point it out, they make excues. Excuses are not good enough. Why can we bath and consume goods every day when people five miles down the road cannot afford a meal, why can we sleep in a warm house when people freeze in the cold?

It all comes down to ethics. Our society cannot be morally correct. We refuse to see the problems and deal with them. We are troubled by our daily lives, when 4 people a minute die of starvation all over the world.

That is what war is about. We cannot control our emotions and react in a calm and reasonable way. Ignorance can also be the causes of the wars in dealt with ethics. Many people just cannot tell the difference between right and wrong.

We are responsible for showing them.

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