Christians launch crusade against new U.S. mosque

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

Point well taken. I agree that most people who have a fear of other faiths are insecure about their own faith. It is a rare person who is secure enough in his or her own faith to take the time to read the Holy Books of other faiths. I have my own ideas and faith in and on God and religion, and am secure enough in them to allow myself the time and effort to read Islam's Holy Book, the Qu'ran. I've had an English translation of the Qu'ran since last November. I have gained some new insight into Islam and it's tenents. There is still a lot I'm not sure of with it. I do know enough, however, that I can say with some honesty that at least some of what Islam's detracters in the U.S. say about the religion itself is not only wrong, but way off base as well. Most Muslims have the same hopes and dreams and aspirations that Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Hindi's, etc. have. And living in the U.S. gives them automatically the same rights, duties, and freedoms that I have, including the right of association and worship. ike I have said in other posts in other threads, if we can stop Muslims from freely associating and worshipping in this country, then not only do the rest of us lose our rights and freedoms, but those who have fought and died to preserve those freedoms for us will ALL HAVE DIED IN VAIN. And that will be a travesty to their memory. So lets honor their memory by remembering them and the rights they fought and died for as enumerated in the Constitution of the UNITED States of America.

dey so gonna get sued dawg!
People need to stop wasting their valuable time on these squabbles and do something nice for society, such as building a couple more of schools and new infrastructure. What can they do, it's a free country and there's private property.

I'm sorry people but the political correctness is all over this i feel more black sheeped being a christian in this country

reply to post by Rockpuck


Well, my point of view on the situation is the whole hypocrisy of the pastor's statement. That is my religious issue. I can imagine this guy at the pulpit preaching tolerance. and other ideologies, then he goes and says that. Just not right. Call me anti-religion if you want. As a pastor, even if you think it, you should know better than to say it. It just points out yet another religious blunder. Whether the mosque gets built or not, I personally am not affected by it. It will bother me though if, as stated before, the Islams keep getting rejected. Then, I believe, there is a bigger issue at hand.

Not everyone likes everybody else's post, that comes with the territory. I do not intend to please everyone. Different strokes for different folks. If you don't like or agree, then you don't have to get involved. Pretty simple I think.
WND may not be a source in your opinion. But, I am sure others think the same about sources you read as well. Someone wrote about the situation, and that is that. We continue and offer additional opinions on the topic. That, IMO, is what articles are intended to do.

[edit on 1/31/2008 by palehorse23]

I love my country Freedom of religion as long as your not jewish budist islamic or anything but christian/catholic.

reply to post by Rockpuck

Originally posted by Rockpuck
The fact that it was a WND story in the first place should have been enough to say "BS!" ..... but some people never learn... OP .. talking to you here.. the WND is NOT a news source.

You mentioned the Dayton Daily News in a previous post and have sniped against WND in more than a couple others.

Well, perhaps we should go the source then; The Dayton Daily News:

Sunday, January 27, 2008

SUGARCREEK TWP., Greene County — When the First Baptist Church here advertised a speaker last fall who would tell "the truth about Islam," Dina Ezzeddine of Kettering assumed it would be an interfaith gathering aimed at dispelling negative publicity about her religion.

Instead, former Muslim and Christian convert Shahram Parvani told a gathering of 500 people that "Islam is not a religion of peace," that Muslims "want to control, they want to dominate" and that they spread their religion "by the power of the sword."

Pastor Barry Jude said the church invited Parvani to speak because he has attended discussion groups there. The church later made CDs of his talk available.

Dayton Daily News | Zoning panel's rejection of proposed mosque raises questions | Is it religious intolerance?

A for-profit speaker selling hatred and fear, get your CDs here.

That's tolerance for you.

And the question of religious intolerance was first raised by the Dayton Daily News, and only later picked up by WND.

And here's that damning statement again, from the same article in the Dayton Daily News:

Jude admits his opposition had little to do with traffic patterns or sewage. "We just feel that Christianity is right and that Islam is wrong. Therefore, we take a stand to see (a mosque) not in our community," he said. "The wonderful thing about our American culture is that you have the right to speak out against something you don't support."

Dayton Daily News | Zoning panel's rejection of proposed mosque raises questions | Is it religious intolerance?

You're welcome to impugn the integrity of the Dayton Daily News if you like...

The final paragraph sums it all up nicely:

Ezzeddine, who has no affiliation with the group that wants to build the mosque, said her appearance at the First Baptist Church left her afraid and confused. "The Quran says that Christians, Jews and Muslims are all children of God," she said. "We are a religion of peace."

Dayton Daily News | Zoning panel's rejection of proposed mosque raises questions | Is it religious intolerance?

It would appear the very tactics these small town Conservative Christians rail against in others not like them, are the very means they embrace when they set themselves above others not like them.

Sanctimonious hypocrisy would be more like it.


reply to post by Brother Stormhammer

Originally posted by Brother Stormhammer
When my small church decided to build an actual building (rather than meeting in a rented storefront), we applied for a permit, and got turned down because of traffic flow...there were already four churches in the area, and while traffic was fine Monday through Saturday, traffic around noon on Sunday was enough to make a preacher cuss.

Moslems conduct their community worship on Fridays...

Source | The Moslem Organization of Time and Worship



From the comment section of the Dayton Daily News:

I am appalled at the unanimous decision by the Sugarcreek Twp. Board of Zoning Appeals to deny permits for the construction of a mosque on South Alpha-Bellbrook Road. The reasons given are just excuses that seem to mask a fear, anxiety or hatred. This is a country where religious freedom is treasured. Our very existence has been built through a welcome wave after wave of immigrants.

Schools have many more hours of high traffic a week than churches, synagogues or mosques. Traffic is a false issue — it can be solved.

Sewer issues, likewise, are a smokescreen. Discussion, planning and negotiation will solve them.

Source | Dayton Daily News | Readers react to Sugarcreek Twp. decision against mosque

And for those who don't think the people of this mosque would be subjected to harassment should they fight and win their variance, consider this story of another small town with another proposed mosque:

abc13.com | Residents use pig races to deter building of mosque | Residents don't want group in their area

The pig guy can claim what he wants, but I wonder how long it was before the residents of the "pricey subdivision" next door starting applying pressure for him to find a better location for the malodorous activities taking place on his property.

reply to post by palehorse23



[quote
Well, my point of view on the situation is the whole hypocrisy of the pastor's statement. That is my religious issue. I can imagine this guy at the pulpit preaching tolerance. and other ideologies, then he goes and says that. Just not right.


I understand what you are saying and yes, you are right. What he said was stupid. However, he was speaking for himself. Unless the entire faith of Christianity steps up.....one person at a time....and says that this preacher is speaking on their behalf....then he speaks for only himself.

However, don't you feel that his FREEDOM OF SPEACH is just as important as FREEDOM OF RELIGION? Isnt he entitled to say whatever he wants, as long as its within the law? Is one constitutional freedom more valuable then another? Just some questions to ponder.


The board said that this had nothing to do with religion. Either you are calling them liars and have some information that can show this. Or they are being truthful and WND is twisting this situation due to an agenda.

The issue of the Islamic building not being allowed to be built is in fact - according to this article - not a religious issue.

reply to post by greeneyedleo


C'mon LEO. Of course I believe in freedom of speech/religion are important for everyone. That is not my issue, whether he can or can't say it. It is the fact that he is a Christian and he still has these thoughts that Islam is wrong. If he is a true Christian, he should be secure enough in his own beliefs that he has no reason to think this way. Would Jesus think that Islam is wrong? I don't think so. I thought He loves everyone, no matter Christian, Islamic, etc. But according to his beliefs, he is being a hypocrite. Just my opinion though. I just hate when people do not practice what they preach. Especially preachers.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
What he said was stupid. However, he was speaking for himself. Unless the entire faith of Christianity steps up.....one person at a time....and says that this preacher is speaking on their behalf....then he speaks for only himself.

As the leader of a community, his views reflect the views of his flock.

Notice he used the term "we" in his statement?

He may consider himself above others, but he's certainly not using "we" in the royal sense nor as an editorial statement.

When he used the term "we" he was, IMHO, speaking as the voice of the community he represents.

Judging by the information in my previous post, I would venture to say he preaches these views to his congregation.

NIMBY, indeed.

reply to post by goosdawg


lol well put, I think you are correct......Better yet plant that mosque in deep east TX...Now that would be funny

So what is wrong with denying the Mosque? It is the same exact thing that occurs everyday in Islamic nations around the world. In Egypt they regularly burn down churches and profile, neglect, and discriminate against Christians. If you try and even talk about Christianity in some countries, you will be sentenced to death. Churches are not spreading because of this prevalent mentality, and yet mosques are because of our so called complacency.

Like I stated in another post, I believe not only in religious tolerance, but acceptance as well. The problem with this philosophy however is that a significant portion of the world does not share the same feelings, with Islam representing the greatest number of the intolerant.

Even some of my moderinzed, liberal minded Muslim friends have some very narrow minded views when it comes to religion. I might hear them say "Why are there so many Churches, there's one right across the street from that one!?", and yet they have a Huge Mosque causing traffics jams at times of worship with 5,000 plus in attendance. They have gates shutting out those they wish not to enter, and they spill hate and intolerance at their sermons. (I know what I'm talking about, one mosque nearby by is Wahhabi, as is a Saudi Academy. I even heard a Mullah speaking once, and all he could do was spit hatred of Sunnis, with his fellow Shias cheering on, right here in America!).

I don't hate Islam, I simply do not feel comfortable with the idea of Mosques spreading everywhere while Churches aren't allowed to do the same. Especially when the few "liberal" Mosques I have known still speak of intolerance towards even their fellow Muslims. If the idea does not make you uncomfortable, then you either have no experience with the subject, or you simply wish to remain ignorant.

Tolerance is key, but until we see more from the Islamic side, everyone should remain on guard. It's sad, but it is REALITY.

[edit on 1-31-2008 by TheAgentNineteen]

Originally posted by Bugs_N_Recovery
I'm sorry people but the political correctness is all over this i feel more black sheeped being a christian in this country

You're kidding, right? You envision yourself a comedian, and that's one of your funny jokes, correct? 'Cause Christians make up a very solid 80% (at least) of the people in this country, and endlessly dictate policy to the rest of us. You have no concept of what being a scapegoat because of your religion is like, and I find it disgusting that so many Christians think they are being oppressed because there are still people who don't want to bend knee to them.

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
So what is wrong with denying the Mosque? It is the same exact thing that occurs everyday in Islamic nations around the world. In Egypt they regularly burn down churches and profile, neglect, and discriminate against Christians. If you try and even talk about Christianity in some countries, you will be sentenced to death. Churches are not spreading because of this prevalent mentality, and yet mosques are because of our so called complacency.

You'll notice we are not Egypt nor Saudi Arabia. You have noticed that, right? We happen to hold ourselves to a higher standard. At least I think we do. We used to, I've gotten doubtful.

Like I stated in another post, I believe not only in religious tolerance, but acceptance as well. The problem with this philosophy however is that a significant portion of the world does not share the same feelings, with Islam representing the greatest number of the intolerant.

Oh, I suppose you've done a study?

Even some of my moderinzed, liberal minded Muslim friends have some very narrow minded views when it comes to religion. I might hear them say "Why are there so many Churches, there's one right across the street from that one!?", and yet they have a Huge Mosque causing traffics jams at times of worship with 5,000 plus in attendance. They have gates shutting out those they wish not to enter, and they spill hate and intolerance at their sermons. (I know what I'm talking about, one mosque nearby by is Wahhabi, as is a Saudi Academy. I even heard a Mullah speaking once, and all he could do was spit hatred of Sunnis, with his fellow Shias cheering on, right here in America!).

And a church I went to had a pastor that frequently used racial slurs in his sermon, railed against Catholics and Jews, and lawd almighty don't EVEN mention homosexuality. Needless to say, I ditched that church and have never poked my head into another Southern Baptist church.

Clearly this guy is a perfect indicator of the entire Christian religion, just as your crazy Wahabbi mullah is a spokesperson for Islam.

I don't hate Islam, I simply do not feel comfortable with the idea of Mosques spreading everywhere while Churches aren't allowed to do the same. Especially when the few "liberal" Mosques I have known still speak of intolerance towards even their fellow Muslims. If the idea does not make you uncomfortable, then you either have no experience with the subject, or you simply wish to remain ignorant.

Ahhh, the "honest guy" approach to bigotry.
"Gosh guys, you know me, I'm not a bigot. But let's be honest here, aren't those women / gays / blacks / Muslims a real pain in the ass? I'm not being intolerant, it's just how it is! You don't agree, well, you must be clueless 'cause I'm just telling you the truth about those Catholics / Asians / Jews / Mexicans!"

Most liberal Churches are pretty insistent that their way is still the only correct way. "Liberal" only stretches so far when you apply it to an institution that is by its nature very conservative.

Tolerance is key, but until we see more from the Islamic side, everyone should remain on guard. It's sad, but it is REALITY.

That's right. Honest Guy Who's Not a Bigot here is right. They're not people with individual outlooks, opinions, and thoughts. They are an autonomous faceless mass, and if you've met one you've met them all!

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Brother Stormhammer

 

Read whole thread eh?

I am from the outlying area of Sugercreek.

Less then 10 min drive actually.

Now that we have proof that my eyesight (and my grasp of geography) is less than perfect *grin*

What can you tell us about the people / circumstances behind the rather sensational headline?

Great. Now Osama has one more item he can add to the "jihad list".

"America, the land of the free, unless your religion disagrees with ours."

Good great, this is what should be also done in my country Holland or Netherlands, Holland is Fullll of these churches and i and more dutch think that they should stop building these things in my country. mosques even have more power in Holland than the normal church does. for many dutch people its an infection.

btw let me warn you that if you give them 1 hand they will take your whole arm and the rest with it..... we can tell. dont get me wrong i dont hate these people... just that well full is full like a few politicians said



[edit on 1-2-2008 by newworldnews2007]

reply to post by newworldnews2007


So only Protestants should be allowed to worship in Holland? Or is it more of a "you can worship, but only I may do so publicly"? Only non-Muslims should be allowed to own property and buildings in Holland, right?

Reply to TXMACHINEGUNDLR

lol well put, I think you are correct......Better yet plant that mosque in deep east TX...Now that would be funny

Yes why not? It’s the fastest growing religion. In future you might see a huge Green dome with a tall minaret when walking into east TX.

Reply to TheAgentNineteen

So what is wrong with denying the Mosque? It is the same exact thing that occurs everyday in Islamic nations around the world. In Egypt they regularly burn down churches and profile, neglect, and discriminate against Christians. If you try and even talk about Christianity in some countries, you will be sentenced to death. Churches are not spreading because of this prevalent mentality, and yet mosques are because of our so called complacency.

The whole above statement is wrong. Islam tolerates the existence of other religions and we Muslims are taught to respect them aswel.Dont judge all Muslims with the actions of a few.

with Islam representing the greatest number of the intolerant.

Muslims being firm in their faith is not ‘intolerant’. Christians changing their scriptures according to their own desires and than they complain Christianity is in decrease because of Muslims.

and yet they have a Huge Mosque causing traffics jams at times of worship with 5,000 plus in attendance

Exactly my Point with thousands attending and you complain about huge mosques being built?

(I know what I'm talking about, one mosque nearby by is Wahhabi, as is a Saudi Academy. I even heard a Mullah speaking once, and all he could do was spit hatred of Sunnis, with his fellow Shias cheering on, right here in America!).

90% of Muslims are Sunnis.Wahabbis only come from Saudi and they get full funding from Saudi to build their huge mosques.

I don't hate Islam, I simply do not feel comfortable with the idea of Mosques spreading everywhere while Churches aren't allowed to do the same. Especially when the few "liberal" Mosques I have known still speak of intolerance towards even their fellow Muslims. If the idea does not make you uncomfortable, then you either have no experience with the subject, or you simply wish to remain ignorant.

Mosques are spreading because Muslims are increasing. I live in UK and I see churches empty or hardly any attendance and than they eventually go on Sale because no one goes to them.Christian borns are now feeling ashamed of calling themselves christians and rather label themselves atheists.Christains cant even propagate their own religion in their own country properly and than they complain about their 2 people missionaries not being able to build churches. IS it Islam’s fault?


[edit on 1-2-2008 by kangjia57]

Please read critically and think. This is a story spun to incite hate and outrage...against christians. Im not a christian, and Im not a fan of their intolerance, however, they had nothing to do with this. Yes, the protested, so what. People protest all sorts of things every day. They didnt make the decision, or have any part in the decision. Unless you can verify that the parking and sewer concerns were invalid, you have no grounds for outrage and hate. Please read critically, think, and then react. It would do wonders for the world.

reply to post by saturnine_sweet


Considering that the source cited in the thread (WND) is a rabidly pro-christian, anti-muslim spin "news" site, I have to ask... Why would they randomly shift gears to do the exact opposite of what they always do?

well, Im not familiar with that source, other than that, as far as i know, they arent openly affiliated with any religion. Perhaps rabid christians think that by spinning this, they make their followers proud...still doesnt change the fact that people are all up in arms about something that isnt even true....this has not in any way been proven to be about freedom of religion...its been stated that it was about civil engineering...and there's no evidence otherwise.