Originally posted by Extralien
Face to face personal readings are usually quite accurate, but only because the reader is not so much reading the stars or the cards, but rather is reading the person who wants the reading.

I think you are right on target.

It bothers me that there is so much quackery (if that is the right word) in astrology, that any intelligent person is forced to dismiss it. If there were that many medical quacks out there, nobody would go for a doctor for anything.

But in dismissing astrology, are we really throwing the baby out with the bath water? After all, we are talking about a philosophical system that is 4000 years old, at least!

If an ATS astrologer would just come by here and tell me what the significance of this convergence is, I would appreciate it. Or at least explain why this convergence is mentioned in various astronomy blogs, but not a single astrology blog that I could find. I have a feeling that this should be indicating something quite significant

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Thanks for the analysis and comment, Extralian. Always good!

A few pointers..

Tarot cards, crystal balls, and palmistry.

A fortune teller may use any of the above items to tell fortunes. It usually requires the physical contact of these objects by the inquirer for the reader to 'pick up' on what the objects may show (palms, normally the reader will hold your hand and read the lines, physical contact)

You don't have to use Tarot cards, you can use ordinary playing cards, but it's the meanings the reader gives to each card and the order they appear after the inquirer has shuffled them that helps the reader form a pattern of things.

The reader will watch and read the inquirer all the time. What hand do they use to hold the pack? any bodily oddities (moles, freckles, scars, depth of wrinkles, colour and texture of skin). The reader will pick up more feelings from all that than from the cards. Understanding Human nature and recognition of peoples habits are the key to a good reading.

Ever heard the expression 'first instincts are normally right'?
You know when someone is lying, you know when you're being stared at from across a room. These are the types of things a reader trains up on.

When it comes to the stars, the same principle applies. Your date and time of birth marks the exact location of the planet in correlation to the 'houses' of the Zodiac and the other planets.

Normally a convergence or a comet or other stellar event is suggested to be a turning point of some description. Be it the end of something or a major decision needs to be made.

You'd think if it had any real factual influence then we would all experience a new idea, emotion, event that effects us all at the same time. If you had a reading today and the topic of this convergence came up, you'd think it was important. It's not. It's only relevant to the reader as it is a mergod of further tapping into the 'sense' of the inquirer.

For example, if I said here that I could tell what sort of person you are just from reading your posts, you'd probably laugh. But if I said I could use your date of birth along with the current star settings, you might be more inclined to accept my reading.

The same with a pack of Tarot. The inquirer has got to have some kind of faith or belief or interest in the methods for them to actually get a reading done. The reader can see this interest on the inquirers face and immediately gets impressions. It's the idea of the power in the cards, crystal ball or stars that is the trick up the readers sleeves.

It all comes down to a self taught respect of Human nature and behaviour. Pure psychology rather than astrology.

Couples get together for various reasons. It may be the same sports they do, the same bars they drink in, the same types of film they enjoy, or the same set of emotions that give them the buzz of love. These are principles of a persons physical make-up and are all easily slotted into sub groups.

Next time you're in town, choose one person. Examine their body type, then look around and find others that very closely match that type. When you find another, you'll notice a lo of similarities. That is DNA you''re seeing but it does not mean they will have the same lifestyles. It can be used as a guide for a reader. The establishment of the pattern of all things.

I used to do readings and had quite an interest in this subject, if you couldn't tell

Great fun can be had 'people watching'. You might find you'll be doing that a lot more next time you're out. It's amazing what you see.

Here's a small observation regarding your avatar.

You didn't pick it because it looks good. Your subconscious chose it as it expresses how you operate and think.

So, going just on your avatar, your methodical and theory based approach to things shows you like the puzzle of the maze.

getting lost doesn't bother you as you manage to find a way out no matter. You study things with an almost 'clockwork' attitude, one step at a time making sure you understand each moment. The spiraling dizziness of situations are brain food for you. It makes you wonder where and when it will all end and how.

Once answers are revealed, you float on the buzz of your new knowledge and contemplation goes on for quite a while, digesting each morsel over time.

That's just a surface insight i get from your avatar, how close it is only you can say.

Today, Sunday, I finally dragged myself out of bed early enough to see this convergence, in the cold, predawn morning, and I am glad I did.

Although it is now two days past the prime viewing time, the convergence is still very striking; two bright celestial objects, separated by only a few millimeters of distance, above the eastern horizon.

For years, Jupiter and Venus have been wandering the night sky. Now they converge in a preordained manner, for a brief time, and then begin to separate again.

I have some concluding comments, as follows:

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First, it seems obvious to me that the planets could have no possible direct influence over our lives, such as through gravitational fields. The planets were set in motion by forces that are extremely distant and removed from anything we know or can experience here on earth. How could they affect or guide us?

But consider this thought experiment: You thoroughly shuffle a deck of cards. Then, the first five cards you draw from the top of that shuffled deck is an ordered royal flush! That would seem to be quite significant and magical also. Could you experience that, without thinking that forces might be at work that we are unaware of? It would be a startling coincidence!

But then consider: Any five cards you draw from the deck are equally unlikely. Getting a royal flush, or just any specific sequence of cards – both have equal mathematical possibilities. Any series of cards you draw are equally significant. It is just we don’t immediately recognize the significance. We have no way of mapping that sequence to a meaning.

Another thought experiment: You see both hands of a clock, pointing straight up. This is another significant moment we understand. We even have a name for this moment of time. We call this moment “midnight” or “noon” And we use it as an indicator for when we officially start a new day, or are halfway through the current day. It is no more significant than any other moment of time, but we have a special meaning associated with that moment, derived from human thought and life experience. We gauge our entire existence by the occurrence of this event periodic – this convergence of clock hands.

This is what I believe the convergence of these planets signifies. It is an arbitrary starting point for a new period of time accounting. It affects our lives the same way that the idea of midnight or noon has influence. It has significance because we assign meaning to it. And we can assign significantly to it because it occurs infrequently, and because we don’t have any real understanding of life, destiny, and time.

I submit: the convergence of two planets has actual and real meaning. This meaning originates from something metaphysical, tied to human destiny, marking our existence. Perhaps I personally can’t accurately decode this meaning, through astrology or other mechanisms, but we can all recognize that the meaning exists! Similarly, we recognize that time exists, but have no way of understanding why. It is a permanent mystery.

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There is still time to see this convergence, but the best time to view it has now passed. That moment is gone, and will not come again for years.

When the next convergence occurs, where will we all be?

Originally posted by Extralien

Here's a small observation regarding your avatar.

You didn't pick it because it looks good. Your subconscious chose it as it expresses how you operate and think.

Now that sounds intresting indeed!

If this is true then im sure you can tell me why i chose mine?

I saw these two planets Friday morning. They were beautiful! I tried to get a pic of them but my digital's batteries were down . They were brilliant, big and beautiful and very close together.

Neat stuff.

Astrology & Tarot are pure MUMBO JUMBO! Mostly used to give false hope to the hopeless hordes prepared to believe in anything because their lifes have reached rock bottom.

The Universe is pure Chaos. There is no secret meaning imparted to the individual apart from "you are here - make the most of your short life".

There are no magical allignments.. but judging by some peoples comments on "The Stars", the universe was created to be viewed from earth alone. If I was on another planet, I wouldn't see that allignment in the same way (if at all).

I could throw a handful of match sticks into the air and devine that if they land a certain way, this means that the world will end or that Capricorns should invest in Microsoft Stock. We devine our own meanings and this has NOTHING to do with reality. This is how all superstitions begin.. from IMAGINATION.

Stop looking for patterns and meaning where there is none. What a futile pursuit and please, don't try to back it up with even more Mumbo Jumbo that cannot be proven beyond superstition.

Oh, and as far as 'personal readings' go - being able to read anothers body language combined with some leading questions is not mystical ESP. It's pure charlatanism though I expect none of those whos paychecks depend on this to agree.. LOL

Hmmm, I might stay and watch the cauldrons bubble... LOL

InfraRedMan Out

[edit on 4/2/08 by InfaRedMan]

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Astrology & Tarot are pure MUMBO JUMBO! Mostly used to give false hope to the hopeless hordes prepared to believe in anything because their lifes have reached rock bottom.

Thanks for the comment, InfaRed. Your point was made earlier in this thread, and I agreed with it at the time. There is definitely a danger associated with trusting astrologers, especially “generic” newspaper astrology.

Find someone who reads the daily horoscope and takes it seriously. That person is very easily manipulated. All you have to do is read the person’s horoscope and then modify your behavior to take advantage of them. This would be a way to leverage a business situation to your favor, for example.

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What I would like you to consider is this: there is a great mystery to our existence, and how things are connected. We don’t understand why the future or past exists, and we don’t understand duality of the human mind. (This has been the subject of philosophical discussions for a thousand years.) We don’t even understand something as basic as causality, which we take for granted and use every day in our lives.

I can see why you would dismiss this as mumbo-jumbo. You are not wrong. But it is also a bit of a failure to face something squarely. It is like saying, “everything is pointless”, or “my vote doesn’t count”, or “math is stupid”. All these are true on some level, but also obviously wrong on other, more important levels. I contend that there are huge issues to our existence that cannot be explained, and which baffle us sorely. Patterns exist all over the place! Things work together in odd and obscure ways. There are meanings associated with those patterns, but we don’t know fully what those meanings are.

If you could answer the seemingly simple question as to why complex things exist the way they do, then you would achieve something incredible. Good luck on that! Nobody has made much progress with that riddle so far.

Good post, InfaRed. I'd be interested in any further discussion.