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why don't companies pay us more?

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posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by McKennalite
reply to post by Iblis
 


One question for you:

What would you say to the poor kid that can't get into Dartmouth, because his parents have nothing (if he's luck enough to have both of them), lives in a one bedroom apartment in city high rise, goes to a completely underfunded high school that can't attract or afford inspiring and competent teachers, has to worry about violence in many of his travels to and from different locations, and has to work forty hours a week to help his family make ends meet?

What would you say to him about motivation? About opportunity?


I'd say this has nothing to do with why the Topic Creator is unable to get a raise.
You're dragging me into something off-topic, into an argument with only one clear answer.




posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 09:36 PM
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Just look at Buffet, When he said that he pays his secretary 60 grand a year and she pays more in taxes than he does first thing that came to my mind was, why does he only pay her 60 grand a year when he's a billionaire? I would pay her more than that. If companies can pay ceo's and upper management people hundreds of thousands and up in to the millions and tens of millions then they can pay all of the employees better wages. I don't care how much education you got anyone can be replaced. There will always be someone better than you.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by UScitizen
 


Secretaries and the administrative people are nearly always underpaid.
Which is ridiculous, even though they arent making big deals without them all the calls and paperwork and daily tasks would go undone, and without those things a business fails.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 10:59 PM
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Americans dont and wont get paid more for two very good reasons!
1) Most of yer students are foreigners who go home cause yer government is a bit slow on the up take that they should be left stay,also yer education system is a complete JOKE!it's not even funny, quite sad actually!
2) Your weekly wages would pay 1000 chinese workers for a month(slight exageration i know, but you get the point)



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by UScitizen
Just look at Buffet, When he said that he pays his secretary 60 grand a year and she pays more in taxes than he does first thing that came to my mind was, why does he only pay her 60 grand a year when he's a billionaire? I would pay her more than that. If companies can pay ceo's and upper management people hundreds of thousands and up in to the millions and tens of millions then they can pay all of the employees better wages. I don't care how much education you got anyone can be replaced. There will always be someone better than you.


I beg to differ. If Buffet's secretary feels she is underpaid because he is a billionaire, then she has the right to go and be someone else's secretary. No one is forcing her to stay.

Just because Buffet is a billionaire doesn't mean he has to pay her double of what all other prospective secretaries will earn. There is demand for secretaries @ $60k and someone accepted the job for $60k. It's not being unfair.

Granted, the fact he pays less taxes is because he has businesses, which, under the law and the tax code, can deduct expenses differently than an employee, who doesn't have those deductions.

Unfortunately to many employees, the government takes their chunk first and you keep the rest. For businesses, the government takes whatever is left of a perecentage of the profit. Just stating facts.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by manticore
 


Totally off topic but i used to have the book that your profile picture came out of, i lost it, and i cant remember it's name, any info would be greatly appreciated, i loved that thing! And back on topic so this wont get deleted, erm....economy...money(ahem).............



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 11:42 PM
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Have seen this topic and have resisted posting up until now.. so forgive me... why don't they pay us more... Because they wouldn't be able to afford to have trophy homes all over the world, private jets so they wouldn't have to stand in lines, private schools for their children so they can go to Harvard business school. Who would buy all the mega boats if the didn't make all the money that you and I should have? Wake up people... we have the greatest disparity of income since the Great Depression...



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by whaaa
When I graduated from the University, I was all gungho and excited to join my chosen profession. I soon learned that the corporate structure followed the Peter principle and unless you were willing to do some major azzkizzin you were going to be stuck in the trenches. So I figured that if
they were going to pretend to pay me; I would pretend to work. I didn't last long in the corp. structure.

Thank the good Lord I still own the family farm/ranch and have enough skills and ambition to make it without those greedy bastards.

We used to make steel in this country; now we make happy meals.

It's a brave new world, welcome to the monkey house!!


I salute you sir and tip my hat to you. I myself have not started my own business yet (kind of hard to do when the degree I'm working currently towards is film and there's not a big market for it here). But I completely agree with your whole "azzkizzin" I'm sick and tired of that sort of attitude that businesses have. It's a shame because good workers have been lost for not kissing up to the upper management (Note: I'm not saying this necessarilly happens to ALL businesses, but in my experience, all of the jobs except for ONE, a small moving business wanted some major kiss up and they were disappointed to find out I had too much integrity to do so.)



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by Pro-genetic
Americans dont and wont get paid more for two very good reasons!
1) Most of yer students are foreigners who go home cause yer government is a bit slow on the up take that they should be left stay,also yer education system is a complete JOKE!it's not even funny, quite sad actually!
2) Your weekly wages would pay 1000 chinese workers for a month(slight exageration i know, but you get the point)


*nod* agreed.

Going back on topic, I agree that even if you are very good in your field, it is almost guaranteed you can easily be replaced by foreigners or illegals (I should know living in GA where we have a huge illegal immigration problem). Although this is only in fields that for the most part require no college or minimal college. For the moment I won't have to worry about any illegals getting in the way when I go after a job in the film field. That being said however, film is very competitive even for directors or writers, so you have to make sure to be exceptionally good.

sigh... should I ever open my studio, I'll make sure to stick around only to the U.S. and hire only legal U.S. citizens. Even if it ends up pinching my own salary for a while, I can't stand the unfairness of how these big corporations work and end up screwing the legal citizens the way they do. Yes the bottomline is important, I know that, but keeping your employees and treating them with respect should be just as important if not more so.

On another note. To those here that have posted about their success in building their own business. Please don't misunderstand, from what I've been reading, it doesn't seem like the negative comments are towards the small/local businesses that you've worked on. I believe the majority of the negative comments here are directed towards the megastores and businesses alike that make ridiculous amounts of profit but don't bother to even care for their employees properly. I myself plan on building my own business some day and I'm sure I'll meet the same hardships you're talking about (I've only had to deal with the credit side of managing a business since my previous job was in the accounting dept.)

To give you an example about the obvious divide with these mega cops. I can't find the video at the moment since it's pretty old (it was on Currenttv.com) This independent film maker was talking about the incredibly high profits texaco had posted 2 years ago (It was like in billions or something like that) so the guy went around talking about how great this was and what not (as sarcasm of course) and went to every gas station owned by texaco and asked their employees how they were going to spend their share of the wealth. The employees in short scoffed and pretty much not only stated how they had never even heard of this, but they also stated some of the poor conditions of their jobs. The only reason they were there? they needed something to help pay bills.

My own personal take on this? I think it is horrible to think that in this day and age with all our advances and our "sophisticated intelligence" there are still people that are still in situations were they "have to pay the bills" instead of being able to live a life outside their jobs. Whenever I hear that there are some people that work THREE jobs! I shake my head in sadness just thinking that that person cannot and will not actually have any free time for themselves and their own aspirations. But why do they do it? because "they have to pay the bills".

Maybe I'm of a different breed. Because I am the type of person that values their out of work personal time so much I'm not willing to give it up unless a) I'm paid over time or b) I actually care about the company and the people in the company to do it without pay, and I mean GENUINELY care, not "I'll do it because if I don't, I'll loose my job or they won't think highly of me" and yes, I've had a job were I genuinely cared for the success of that company and the people involved. But I also value my out of work personal time because I have better aspirations than to end up wasting 1/3rd of my life in a job that I don't appreciate. Yes, I understand priorities, yes, I understand responsibilities, but that doesn't mean that my personal life should suffer because "I have bills to pay". I'm sorry, but the fact that there are companies out there willing to exploit their emplyees because they know "they have bills to pay" in this day and age is not only inexcusable, but unacceptable as well.

To those of you actually letting yourselves be exploited in this way know this, you DON'T HAVE TO be in this position! Ask yourselves, deep inside, are you happy where you're at? are you genuinely happy with your situation? are you happy having to give away so much of your own personal time for an ungrateful company that won't even pay you for your extra work. I'm sure your answer will be a resounding NO! if this is the case, then ask yourselves, what are you going to do about it????

You should not have to give away 1/3 of your life away or more for a job you're not even happy with and/or are being severely underpaid. Know that you are worth more than that! There's always an option! there's always another choice, another door! look for it, but don't ever sacrifice your own happiness for just a "job" nothing is worth that much! To those here who have their own businesses, I tip my hat to you and salute you. Because you've obviously crossed that threshold into creating your own happiness and someday I'm sure I will be in the same position (provided somebody is willing to help out a no-name independent film maker lol!)

[edit on 31-1-2008 by Question]



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 07:10 AM
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Who wants to be earning $5.15 for the rest of their lives (these days $6.90).

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and who wants employees that are sick with no healthcare, hungry with no food, cold with no housing.....
how are employees getting by on the $5.15 or $6.90?
are they struggling on, going without?
or are they finding themselves dependant on someone else...what if that some else decides that they need to come home instead of working that overtime that you want them to? are you willing to accept the idea that since they are depending on someone else, along with you for their needs to be met, then well, you are in actuality sharing this person with another "lord" and sometimes, you just might lose out!! and the person will act according to his other "lords" wishes instead of yours??
or, are they just getting assistance from the various government programs? using tax dollars to subsidize your payroll....since well, not too many people could live on $6.90 an hour ALONE, and still have the means for housing, utilities, food, transportation, clothing, healthcare and all the rest.

what if, heaven forbid!!, the government were to cut all these aid programs....I mean, it is beginning to look more and more likely the more our economy goes down into the crapper and the government spends more and more money in their attempts to save it!! just what shape would you business be in then?



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
Who wants to be earning $5.15 for the rest of their lives (these days $6.90).

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and who wants employees that are sick with no healthcare, hungry with no food, cold with no housing.....
how are employees getting by on the $5.15 or $6.90?
are they struggling on, going without?
or are they finding themselves dependant on someone else...what if that some else decides that they need to come home instead of working that overtime that you want them to? are you willing to accept the idea that since they are depending on someone else, along with you for their needs to be met, then well, you are in actuality sharing this person with another "lord" and sometimes, you just might lose out!! and the person will act according to his other "lords" wishes instead of yours??
or, are they just getting assistance from the various government programs? using tax dollars to subsidize your payroll....since well, not too many people could live on $6.90 an hour ALONE, and still have the means for housing, utilities, food, transportation, clothing, healthcare and all the rest.

what if, heaven forbid!!, the government were to cut all these aid programs....I mean, it is beginning to look more and more likely the more our economy goes down into the crapper and the government spends more and more money in their attempts to save it!! just what shape would you business be in then?


Business owners who see what you're talking about in a negative light should get off their high horses. People get sick, it happens, get over it. People have families and lives outside of work, get over i, we are humans, not robots or personal slavest. If they want me to choose between my wife and my job, my wife will win hands down. To even fathom the idea that they would even have you make that decision is horrible and short sigthed. Again, the bottom line is important, yes, but so ar eyour employees and if business owners are not going to bother treating them with respect, they're only going to find themselves with a hi8gh turn over of employees. My previous job was like that, no respect whatsoever. The sad part is that they understood why the had a ridiculously high turn over but they didn't want to do anything about it.

Now a days, employers who continue exploiting their workers are going to have to think better about their actions against employees unless they want to be seen for who they really are thanks to websites like ripoffreports.com or the BBB where both consumers and previous employees can let the rest of the world know how these companies behave and treat their customers/employees.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by manticore

Originally posted by UScitizen
Just look at Buffet, When he said that he pays his secretary 60 grand a year and she pays more in taxes than he does first thing that came to my mind was, why does he only pay her 60 grand a year when he's a billionaire? I would pay her more than that. If companies can pay ceo's and upper management people hundreds of thousands and up in to the millions and tens of millions then they can pay all of the employees better wages. I don't care how much education you got anyone can be replaced. There will always be someone better than you.


I beg to differ. If Buffet's secretary feels she is underpaid because he is a billionaire, then she has the right to go and be someone else's secretary. No one is forcing her to stay.

Just because Buffet is a billionaire doesn't mean he has to pay her double of what all other prospective secretaries will earn. There is demand for secretaries @ $60k and someone accepted the job for $60k. It's not being unfair.

Granted, the fact he pays less taxes is because he has businesses, which, under the law and the tax code, can deduct expenses differently than an employee, who doesn't have those deductions.

Unfortunately to many employees, the government takes their chunk first and you keep the rest. For businesses, the government takes whatever is left of a perecentage of the profit. Just stating facts.



I didn't mention anything about her not being satisfied about her pay, I'm talking about him paying his employees better since he has plenty of funds to do so. That goes for all companies that have CEO's and upper management employees that make 300-400% more than the rest of the employees.




posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 08:44 AM
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reply to post by UScitizen
 


What gives us the right to tell someone how to spend their money? Once again it goes back to making yourself more valuable to your employer. The guy running the company put is money on the line. The only thing he owes his employees is a safe place to work and a fair wage. Fair is whatever he and the employee agree on.
Do you believe that if one of your parents work all their life and became wealthy that they owe money to you just because you are their child?
If someone wants to get angry about income, then get mad at the government for taxing us so much. The wasted programs and trash they spend it on.If I could have 5-10% back of the taxes I pay in I would be way better off now. We pay tax on our income and then they tax us again when we spend it. Now that is thievery.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 10:07 AM
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My personal opinion is that before you can start a company, you ought to be legally required to have worked at a publicly owned company, where you are just a number, and a profit/loss statement.

I think a great many of these "I worked hard and got somewhere, and you can too" type people have never worked for large companies where you aren't even a person, but a number.

At the large company that I work for now, there was a guy making $120,000 a year, about 50% of that was bonuses. He brought in a NET PROFIT of about $600,000 a year. Guess what? They changed his bonus plan so that he was only making half of what he formerly had. He quit a week later. His profits went with him. So, to save $60,000, they LOST $600,000. Make sense to you? Stuff like this happens all the time in big companies.

Here's another one. A certain division of this company (a very small division) made between $2 million and $3 million a year. AT BETWEEN 25%-30% NET PROFIT. They had been doing this for almost 10 years. It wasn't growing, but it was a very stable business. They came in and said "We're closing this down in 2 weeks." Now, what private business guy wouldn't give his left testicle for a 25% margin on $2-3 million a year? I even tried to get this one guy with money to basically take over the business. All he would have to do is lay out the money for employee salaries for a couple of weeks, until the checks from the existing clients started coming in. He (and his accountant) wouldn't do it, because they refused to believe that a company would just let a cash cow go like that.

Another guy I know brought in about $1,000,000 in new business with a 15%-20% (net) profit margin in less than a year. THE COMPANY WOULDN'T EVEN PAY HIM FOR TIME OFF AT CHRISTMAS, NOR REIMBURSE HIS CELL PHONE BILL (work related). All of these were big companies. Does it sound like they are "doing what is best for the shareholders?"

When big companies (and here, my definition of "big" is anywhere where you cannot walk up and knock on the office door of the owner) look to cut costs, PRODUCTIVITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EQUATION. They look at costs only. I've seen guys who make twice as much as someone else, doing 4 TIMES the work, be laid off, while the other guy keeps his job.

I keep my pay about $10,000 below the "going rate" at my current job, because I know when the employee cuts come, the very first thing (and most times, the ONLY thing) they look at is "What is the guy's salary". This doesn't guarantee that I won't be laid-off/fired, but it makes it very much less likely.

One last thing. Realize that "profit/loss" to a company is just a shell game. I sat in on one high-level meeting for a company I worked for about 10 years ago. Our accounting firm came in and said basically 1) Revenue was up. 2) Costs were down. 3) We paid off $300,000 in debt. 4) We brought in more money than we spent. And finally 5) WE LOST MONEY!

Being young and naive, I asked the following question: "If we brought in more money than we spent, PLUS paid off $300,000 in debt, how did we 'loose money'". The accountant looked fit to be tied, and the best answer she could give was "We just did". The definition of profit/loss is WAY different to corporations than it is to the average joe. Making 10% less profit than is PROJECTED (even when it is up 10% from the year before) is "losing money" to a corporation. Proof is when stocks go down when companies earn less than "projected" to earn, even though actual profits are up.

Work for a big company, and learn how they ACTUALLY operate, instead of how your Econ professor TOLD YOU how they operate, then come and tell me about how "hard work" and "being valuable to your employer" works out.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by sir_chancealot
 


Your explanation is great - those are the types of things I have witnessed while working for my company for many years.

The other thing is the issue that companies must constantly expand or grow their business. Growth inherently means change and not all change is good, particularly when you have a limited core client base and fulfill a niche'. Not every business model lends itself to expansion or significant increases in volumn. As in nature, when something gets too big it becomes either unstable or unhealthy.

What's wrong with having a profitable small company or corporation? Why do we need to grow our size or our profits 10 - 15% each year? Why not focus on being relevant and competitive to other similar businesses instead of constantly tweaking the business for more and more and more profit?

The answer is greed. Share holders and execs want more money for themselves. That 10 -15% is not passed on to lower level employees. For the past two years, the company I work for has not been able to hire decent and competent workers because the starting salaries are ridiculously low, consequently sales are down and it's no big surprise. Additionally, on the heels of drastic expansion, we are facing closings and lay-offs. We have been ever-expanding with inferior quality employees and bare-bones resources to get the job done. Now, with consumers holding on to their money and sales in the toilet, there is just no way for the execs to fake it any more.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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Sir, this is simply the business game. If you have your own company you can decide how much to pay your employees. The main reason why people open businesses is to make money. If they overpay everyone then how much profit are they making? The whole point is to maximize the shareholder's profits. If you overpay everyone then the shareholders would not be making as much.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by kosmicjack
 


I should add also that many problems that companies and corporations have can be directly traced back to QBA - quantitative business analysis. Everything is all about the data. This report, that report, blah, blah, blah until it makes you want to puke. Are they useful? Yes. Are they the whole story? NO! When you are dealing with people there are many other dynamics and intangibles at work. I think the U.S. is dealing with a generation of business school graduates with no common sense or people skills and, unfortunately, now we are paying the price. I mean, for goodness sake, George Bush graduated from Yale with a degree in business didn't he? How's that working for ya?



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by Equinox99
 


I completely agree. However, one must realize that you have to invest in your employees in order to retain and attract a competent and well trained workforce. It's just a smart allocation of resources that would be an investment in future performance.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by kosmicjack
 


Agreed, investing in your employees makes your work efficiency better. It can also backfire. You give people a little slack, they keep pulling on the rope. In a
big corporation you must be lenient but strict. If you give people a raise, then you must give everyone a raise. If you don't then people start getting jealous and start working less hard.

There is just no way to please everyone.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 01:23 PM
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It is quite obvious that the odds are stacked against us to make independent successes of ourselves and I don't think boot licking is a viable solution.

A lot of corporations have raise schedules so regardless of performance it is a set amount of time when one will receive an increase in pay. Most of the time these are "crap" jobs that some posters may scoff at but somebody has to do them whether we like it or not. These "crap" jobs should be gateways to furthering ones life and career but in a lot of cases people get stuck in a rut for one reason or another. If a company does really well usually those good times do not make it to the common place worker-

The corporate structure is designed for profits to trickle downwards. Common sense and intelligence usually exist on the lower rungs of the ladder and not in the board room. There is a huge disconnect between the board room and the common employee which causes them to see us as graphs and numbers as opposed to people.

The fact of the matter is that having a degree or diploma only helps people in certain industries which leaves the rest of us clawing for our dreams.



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