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why don't companies pay us more?

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posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 12:57 PM
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Well,

I think your questions is really - why does mankind as a species allow the elites to control a system that lowers the standard of living of the many for the benefit of the few.

And I would say the two biggest factors are:

1) The illusion of limted resources - the best way to maintain an elitest heirarchy is to create this illusion which naturally leads to overcompetition between Humans versus cooperation between Humans for these resources.

The truth is man is innovative enough to - in almost every case - either create more resources using technology or to find multiple viable alternatives - thus allowing for a very equitable distribution of resources around the planet.

and the way this "illusion" is maintained is through:

2) Monopolistic control of the media - whether it be through Capitalism or Socialism the total control of the media allows for nearly any idea or agenda to be promoted and thus actually supported by the citizenry of the world.

While this does not work uniformly on all Humans it appears to work on the majority thus putting any dissenters into the minority category which can then be easily marginalized through economic intimidation and/or force.

As to the solution - well basically you need a "Benevolent Monarchy" as coined by Plato - to control the media/govt. and thus to start turning the engines of the "machine" towards the greator good - raising the standard of living for all people until technological advances make resources extraordinarily plentiful accross the board.

(think replicator tech. from the "Star Trek" universe)

This is when money would cease to be meaningful and Humans would truly be free to persue those activities that give fufilment and purpose.

Now you may say - what happens when the "Benevolent Monarchy" becomes corrupted through the generations and turns again against the common man?

I would suggest that we seriously look into genetically engineering a race of Humans who recieve pleasure in solving logistical prolems, and who find politics and coruption distasteful.

There are many here on ATS who display these characteristics so it would not be that hard to imagine that this phenotype could be purposely obtained in the not to distant future.

Alternatively an AI could perform the task of "Benevolent Dictator" but we all know how that could end up - however it still may be better to than the elitest transhuman alternative where we become serfs in an endless neo-fuedalistic world government.




posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by jimmyx
 


WHY DON'T COMPANIES PAY US MORE????? ARE YOU SERIOUS??? Not every company is a fortune 500 company. Actually most companies are small business' and the owners only have so much money. I agree with a few other people in this thread. If you want to earn more money get a real degree or better yet, start your own company and see what it is like to run one. Then you will have actual real life experience and will probably be able to answer your own question. Just my thoughts......



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 01:21 PM
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I think part of the problem is the dishonest way that inflation is calculated. Most companies base their cost of living increase on the official rate of inflation which , this year, would give employees a raise of around 3%.

The problem, as anyone who has been shopping recently will know, is that the true inflation rate is far above that. I've heard estimates of the true inflation rate being somewhere around 10 - 15% which fits in with what i've observed in the UK.

This means that if you stay in a job for any length of time you'll find you've eventually taken a rather hefty pay cut in real terms. As salaries are usually based on some kind of framework / grading so that people coming into the company aren't paid more than the current employees there is a downward trend in real terms.

I think the minimum wage hasn't helped matters either as employers now have a baseline they can pay people. Previously there may have been a few jobs that paid less than the current minimum wage but mostly there was some competition. Now, if you have a 'bad' job to fill you just offer the minimum wage just like everyone else.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by Techsnow
 




When you walk into wal-mart how many cashiers do you see eveer standing around doing nothing? Zero! Know why? B/c wal-mart is a greedy capitalist corporation and they want everyone working nonstop for minimum wage whenever they are on the clock, same goes for pretty much everywhere else.


Not everyone at Walmart makes min wage. Many make well over that. Some are not qualified to make any more then min wage.

And are you being serious???...employees SHOULD be working....not standing around doing nothing. That got a laugh out of me.
People who dont work at their job should be fired.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
reply to post by rizla
How mature. I am completely amazed at how I said anything that could have offended you that badly. Not that I care, but let's try and keep this from getting personal, shall we?


What are you talking about? You didn't offend me. If you're referring to my comment about you avatar, it's not personal, other than I'm making a comment about your attitude--i.e. fed misinformation, and being led to the slaughter.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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I always tried to pay employess well,we used to have a saying "If you pay peanuts,you get monkeys!" good rule of thumb



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by tacticaljay
reply to post by jimmyx
 


WHY DON'T COMPANIES PAY US MORE????? ARE YOU SERIOUS??? Not every company is a fortune 500 company. Actually most companies are small business' and the owners only have so much money. I agree with a few other people in this thread. If you want to earn more money get a real degree or better yet, start your own company and see what it is like to run one. Then you will have actual real life experience and will probably be able to answer your own question. Just my thoughts......


Yeah, get a degree and a mountain of debt to pay for it. Then lets hope you can get a well-paying job before they off-shore it or import someone from India to do it at half the price.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by greeneyedleo
reply to post by Techsnow
 




When you walk into wal-mart how many cashiers do you see eveer standing around doing nothing? Zero! Know why? B/c wal-mart is a greedy capitalist corporation and they want everyone working nonstop for minimum wage whenever they are on the clock, same goes for pretty much everywhere else.


Not everyone at Walmart makes min wage. Many make well over that. Some are not qualified to make any more then min wage.

And are you being serious???...employees SHOULD be working....not standing around doing nothing. That got a laugh out of me.
People who dont work at their job should be fired.


Absolutely. Because as we all know Walmart pays GOOD money. You ever heard of the working poor?



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by Techsnow

Why don't the fast food places pay more?

[edit on 30-1-2008 by Techsnow]


I had a neice live in a small town from where I am. She said the local mcdonalds had to boost there low wage up to a prevailing $10 an hour cause no one would work there. I guess thats what it takes to make employers notice the problem and compensate for it..



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 01:30 PM
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How much you are paid depends on how valuable your individual skills are. And I'm not aware of anything stopping anyone from going to school and training themselves in a valuable skill. The idea is to make yourself stand out from the millions of other people who just want "a job" in "a company" to "make a living."

The best way to avoid companies not paying you enough is to either not work for a company, or become a company of your own. Then you can pay yourself whatever you think your efforts are worth, considering what it costs to keep your company running. As long as you work for somebody else, the amount of money you can make will always be controlled by them.

Sounds like somebody needs to check this out:
www.entrepreneur.com...



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by manticore
reply to post by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
 

The times of loyalty and hoping for a raise are over. If you want to earn more money, bring something to the table and negotiate. Just asking for a raise just because you work there and want the simpathy is not going to work. It is the simple law of SUPPLY and DEMAND.
[edit on 30-1-2008 by manticore]


Absolutely. Bring to the table the ability to compete with Mexican and Chinese workers who work for peanuts a day, and who are able to do that because the cost of living in their countries is much lower. Tsk.

[edit on 30-1-2008 by rizla]



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by Nohup
How much you are paid depends on how valuable your individual skills are. And I'm not aware of anything stopping anyone from going to school and training themselves in a valuable skill. The idea is to make yourself stand out from the millions of other people who just want "a job" in "a company" to "make a living."

The best way to avoid companies not paying you enough is to either not work for a company, or become a company of your own. Then you can pay yourself whatever you think your efforts are worth, considering what it costs to keep your company running. As long as you work for somebody else, the amount of money you can make will always be controlled by them.

Sounds like somebody needs to check this out:
www.entrepreneur.com...


That's a very simplistic view of things. Not everyone can just 'go to school', they have mortgages to pay and families to feed which requires them to have a full time job. Then there's the school fees, if you're already struggling with a low wage how do you expect to be able to pay that?

Starting a business isn't necessarily a solution either. You need capital and it'll likely be a while before you see any kind of profit out it. Most working people can't afford to just drop their responsibilities for a while.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Uhh, while most on this thread decided to blame the worker (and of course, in many cases, its an acurate assumption) I will blame the employer.

I work in Aerospace (Honeywell) and we recently went through a phase of "outsourcing" Which is a nice euphemism for exporting our jobs to a cheap labour market so the company can make 38.1 billion dollars in the year instead of 35.

The fact is, most large companies (I say large because small businesses dont have the resources for relocation) see that Asia, Central and South America, and Africa are giant labour pools full of desperately poor people that will work for 18 cents an hour, in horrendous conditions.

Why pay your worker 20 bucks an hour, for 8 hours, plus any potential overtime, when some 12 year old in Asia will work 12 or more hours a day, with no over time or vacation or sick leave, and do it all for 20 cents an hour?

[edit on 30-1-2008 by InSpiteOf]


Check this out.... I was getting my degree and no one would hire me in the computer field. So I land this temp/contractor position and 1 of the assignments was to drive an hb-1 visa technician around to check cell tower signal strength in a bunch of county wide locations.

This young 25 something guy came in from bangalor india with degrees and was working for a national company while being paid in the 20+ an hour range. I was the driver and paid 15 an hour from my temp service.

Theres no jobs for guys hitting 45 on up it seems.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 02:01 PM
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I recently bought a new car. As I parked my car in my building's parking lot, a few employees asked me that if I could get a car, they could get a raise.

Here is the problem. It is the entitlement mentality that has many people dumbed down. I simply said to them: "It is I, not you, who put every penny saved and risked it all to start this business." With much effort, the business is still operating after many years.

You get paid what you are worth. If someone believes you are worth more, then apply there. There will be someone else to fill your shoes. This is the part where I refuse the government intervening. Employment works like an auction. People are willing to bid for you what they perceive you are worth.

I hate to say it but the door is always open from the inside. No one is preventing you from starting your own business. I did it without much money, but, it was all the money I had.

My parents were immigrants and worked hard to support five children. There were five of us sleeping in the same bedroom. Isn't this enough motivation to seek education and work hard to do better than my parents?

If I was able to obtain my degrees and buy a business, so can anyone. The biggest lesson given to me was to never ask for government help. As long as I was healthy, I had a way to work and progress.

Why is this so difficult to understand? As my father always said when I was younger and wanted more incentives at my job: "Your best incentive is imagining yourself without a job."

Life is about choices. One bad choice can change your destiny forever. Be careful about the choices you make.

[edit on 30-1-2008 by manticore]



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by Chris McGee
That's a very simplistic view of things. Not everyone can just 'go to school', they have mortgages to pay and families to feed which requires them to have a full time job. Then there's the school fees, if you're already struggling with a low wage how do you expect to be able to pay that?


Those are excuses. Are you telling me that all college students are independently wealthy? Come on, guy. Yes, it will be expensive and a lot of hard work, but it can be done. It's called having resolve. And a goal. The per credit fees for a local community college near me are $20.00. You go. You take one class at a time for years and years. I've done it.

It's easy to blame the various obligations you've settled for over the years for keeping you from improving yourself. But if you really want to do it, you get rid of your house and mortgage, take out educational loans, and do it.


Starting a business isn't necessarily a solution either. You need capital and it'll likely be a while before you see any kind of profit out it. Most working people can't afford to just drop their responsibilities for a while.


Excuses. If you want it bad enough, there's a way. This is life. You can do whatever you want, but you gotta really want it. Otherwise, just sit back and make excuses and get old and die unhappy.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 02:14 PM
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I honestly think people here are falling into the elitest's trap.

Notice how the more financially sucessful are trying to dog the less financially sucessful?

They have us at each other's throats - and as long as we are fighting amongst ourselves - we do not have the energy left to oppose them.

Let those who can understand.



“Go and tell this people: You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.”

Isaiah 6:9-10



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by rizla
 


They are not forced to work at Walmart. There are plenty of other businesses looking for candidates. The question is: can you do the job?

By the way, I remember in my first job where there were close to 50 people in the office. I was told 5 years before there were 200. Today, there are 5. They were all replaced by the computer. Is there a difference between a computer replacing a human being and cheap labor replacing our labor force? No. All the people that were displaced found jobs in other industries.

It made companies more profitable and they were able to spend their profits in new ways (i.e., computers, printers, etc.). This created and expanded the computer industry. San Jose was nothing in the 70s.

It is as simple as looking back to the agricultural, industrial revolution, and now the INFORMATION revolution. There are hundreds of thousands of jobs here.

What about geriatrics. We are told baby boomers are retiring. There will be plenty of jobs created to satisfy the needs of the aging population. For every need there will be supply. You just need to find it.

Why are we losing so many jobs in Detroit? Are you going to blame the Japanese for being more energy efficient? I thought we learned the lesson in the 80s after the Chrysler fiasco. Let's take responsibility for our own actions (or inactions).

Yes, I strongly believe in trading and talking and not building any permanent alliances. That would be true sovereignty.

But since we can't sit and wait, you have to take care of yourself. You have to create your own niche/island/world.



[edit on 30-1-2008 by manticore]



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by Nohup
Are you telling me that all college students are independently wealthy? Come on, guy. Yes, it will be expensive and a lot of hard work, but it can be done. It's called having resolve. And a goal. The per credit fees for a local community college near me are $20.00. You go. You take one class at a time for years and years. I've done it.

It's easy to blame the various obligations you've settled for over the years for keeping you from improving yourself. But if you really want to do it, you get rid of your house and mortgage, take out educational loans, and do it.


Students generally take out large loans to take their courses and don't have full time jobs. Per credit fees for your local college may be $20.00, that's great. If someone wanted to do one of those courses then I would agree with you, they could and should go for it. Just taking myself as an example though, to improve on my current qualifications in a meaningful manner would cost me in the region of £3000 per year for the next 2 - 3 years.

Getting rid of your house is just a non-starter for most people. Where would you live? Rent would cost as much as a mortgage so you'd be just as badly off.

You may see responsibilities as an excuse but for a lot of people that's just reality.


Excuses. If you want it bad enough, there's a way. This is life. You can do whatever you want, but you gotta really want it. Otherwise, just sit back and make excuses and get old and die unhappy.


That's a very trite and inspiring thought but no, you really can't do whatever you want.

edit:
I may be coming across a bit negative here but I agree that improving yourself and getting an education is the way to improve your lot in life. I'm just pointing out that for a lot of people that may not be a practical option in their circumstances.


[edit on 30-1-2008 by Chris McGee]



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Chris McGee
That's a very trite and inspiring thought but no, you really can't do whatever you want.


I disagree. The newspapers are full of people who have a goal and achieve it. Most people, however, are seduced by the siren song of "good enough." They marry a person who flatters them and meets some of their needs. They get a house and settle for a regular job that pays just enough to allow them to get by. They get complacent.

Of course, there are certain legal barriers that keep people from doing whatever they want. You, I assume, will never be President of the United States, no matter how hard you try. But you can hold a high political office.

The catch, of course, is that to accomplish important things, you must pay. You must sacrifice. You ask me how a person can give up a home and go back to school. You do. You move into a dormitory with a roommate. Married with children? As much as you might love them, you may have to let them go to achieve your goal. The same goes with your old friends, who will not be able to follow you as you move into a different life with different friends and contacts. If you change your situation, you will probably have to give up much of the situation you're in right now. Or work even harder to keep what you want.

You see, it's not "companies" who are to blame. It's the limitations we impose upon ourselves as individuals. The lives we're willing to settle for because it's "too hard" to do something else. The first thing most of us do when we think of a goal is to immediately list all of the reasons why it's NOT possible. That's a horrible way to think, rather than thinking about ways to make happen what we want.

The ultimate bottom line, of course, is how much are you willing to work and sacrifice to get what you want? So you need to be very careful about selecting the appropriate goal. You will achieve the goal, but it will cost you.

I really believe this, because I've seen it in action. Whatever you want, within the limitations of law and physics. Rock star. Powerful politician. Brain surgeon. Famous novelist. Somebody does these things. The only thing stopping you is your own mind. And just because it may be trite, doesn't mean it's not true.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by InSpiteOf

Why pay your worker 20 bucks an hour, for 8 hours, plus any potential overtime, when some 12 year old in Asia will work 12 or more hours a day, with no over time or vacation or sick leave, and do it all for 20 cents an hour?



Short-term that might make a company a lot of money... as long as everyone in the country they sell their product in doesn't do the same. It becomes a problem when all the companies are doing the same.

Why?

One company's employees are another company's customers. If company 'A' decides to sack it's employees and outsource, that's a whole bunch of company 'B's customers who can't afford to buy their products any longer. When company B finds it's not selling the same amount of product as before, it might decide to get rid of it's workforce and outsource (to recoup lost profits).... End result, both comany A & B are producing the good much cheaper abroad, but their target market can't afford their products anymore, since everyone is out of work. Multiply this craze for outsourcing by thousands of companies, and suddenly their previous profitable market is full of unemployed, or low-paid people who can't afford their products any more.

I'm no economist, but I could never see the long term benefit of everyone downsizing or outsourcing.

Does my post make any sense?... lol




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