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why don't companies pay us more?

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posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by jimmyx
 


I can relate to working over time and not getting paid..

I work on a salary basis, I get a set paycheck every two weeks.. I only get paid worth 40hrs though, I work anywhere from 40-60hrs .. and cannot claim overtime.. but I am fully expected to work over 40hrs.

Corporations are very detached from the Human element of their own workforce, they rather we work like machines and not think for our selves.

Maybe this is way every industry has higher turn over rates anymore..




posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 09:16 AM
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You are paid by what the market allows. In our nation things like inflation may have increased, but overall cost of goods is decreasing. It hurts a little more now because of the subprime BS going on, and the loss of faith in Chinese durable goods.

but you get paid what people will accept for the position you hold. simple as that. And the corporation has little loyalty to the employee, as they are there to make money for the investor.

It sucks to be part of a downsizing, but it happens when the market corrects itself. I have thus far avoided it, but like many am just a paychekc or two from being homeless.

An associates degree means little unless you are licensed. I have no degree and manage people with masters degree's. Ability matters most, and my lack of education affords my company the leisure of paying me a little less. I am cool with that, as i am not in it for the money.

OP, your attitude here seems sour. If that is a representation of how you are in "real life", then you have an answer to your question.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 09:27 AM
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What amazes me is that the same people being exploited are anti-union. Are people stupid? Are they controlled by the media.

Another case in point is the mass importation of Easter Europeans into the UK. Cheap labor suppresses salaries. But if you point that it, you are accused of being racist. Sure, Poles are hard workers, but that is because they are earning four times as much in the UK as they can make for the same job in Poland. It's because of the difference in currency value and cost-of-living. They keep their costs low, send their money home, and when they get back to Poland, they buy a house mortgage free.

It's great for big business and bad for the indigenous population. And the government is fiercely pursuing this policy. 1 in 20 people in the UK is now Polish (that's just Polish, never mind Romanian or Bulgarian etc). 1 in 4 children born in the UK have foreign parents. The vast majority of Eastern Europeans in the UK earn minimum wage so they contribute very little in taxes. So the British people pay for their services and business reaps the profits.

It's kinda like the Iraq war. Run up war costs that the US tax-payer pays, and funnel the money into Corporations that service the war and increase the oil company profits. It's win-win for big business, and lose-lose for normal people.

At the same time, brain-wash people by controlling the media. Part of the reason this works is that so many people are so susceptible to attitude-control.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
OP, your attitude here seems sour. If that is a representation of how you are in "real life", then you have an answer to your question.


You are an example of what I'm talking about. Attitude control. It will happen to you too, but then it will be too late. It's not market adjustment when the same thing is happening across the board.

Another fact, wealth distribution between rich and poor has reverted to what it was in the 1930's in both the UK and the USA. The rich have got a lot richer recently, but the media isn't talking about it. Because the rich own the media.

[edit on 30-1-2008 by rizla]



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by InSpiteOf
 


I found your reply of interest. I worked for that company in Phoenix. Not in the manufacturing area, but in a department that fell under finance.

All I gotta say, is now you know how I feel, since my job got outsourced to Canada!



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 10:00 AM
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reply to post by Enthralled Fan
 


Ya and i know exactly why they shipped your jobs here: There are very few actual honeywell employee's here, most of us are contract workers, which means, cheap labour with little benefits.

The upper management laughingly calls this the "Unity site" (based on the street name) but there is little to no unity here. We are one of the only un-unionized shops in Canada. We are the only site to have a hiring freeze. There are no wage increases for contract workers here. The list goes on.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by rizla

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
OP, your attitude here seems sour. If that is a representation of how you are in "real life", then you have an answer to your question.


You are an example of what I'm talking about. Attitude control. It will happen to you too, but then it will be too late. It's not market adjustment when the same thing is happening across the board.

Another fact, wealth distribution between rich and poor has reverted to what it was in the 1930's in both the UK and the USA. The rich have got a lot richer recently, but the media isn't talking about it. Because the rich own the media.

[edit on 30-1-2008 by rizla]


If you are gifted, no company will let you go. I have lived through 4 separate "housecleanings". You know why? because i produced the only tangible results, and am worth keeping.

Yes, it will be my day one day. Lucky for me, I have some ability in the medical field (i currently do call center management) and can turn out a nursing license in a few months. I am already thinking of doing that now, as i can work 2 days of 16 hours each, get paid for 40 total, and have 5 days off to devote to research. the only thing holding me back is that i really like my job and am energized by its' challenges.

The problem is laziness. I don't mean lazy labor, i mean lazy intellects. We have allowed our nation to be what it is today by wanting cheap chinese crap, and we haven't paid attention until now.

The rich ARE getting richer...but that will soon end. The bubble is deflating on the heels of the subprime crash. Today the fed may throw us a half percent bone....we will see. It will do little to rebuild trust with the average investor. We will see the rich lose their shirts right alongside all those old people and their 401(k)'s.

Likely, i will be affected, as my job is very highly controlled by the consumer confidence. Luckily, my wife is a nurse, and i will likely be one too. People will always be sick.
That is a safe industry.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by rizla
What amazes me is that the same people being exploited are anti-union. Are people stupid? Are they controlled by the media.


Unions are a mixed blessing. The best example is the automotive industry. Unions do protect and benefit the employees, but it is at the expense of the product and the corporation. Now, if the corporation cannot make a profit, and cannot shake the union, then you will have strikes, loss of jobs, poor product quality, bad production efficiency, etc. All this ends up being pushed on the consumer who foots the bill. No one involved wants to lose anything so thats where the cost goes.

This is why it is difficult for anyone working an non-union job with the same skill sets cannot outright afford to go buy a new GM car, yet the same employee in a GM factory that is unionized could.

We have a Chrysler subsidiary where I live and the workers I see at the credit union routinely withdrawal $800 - $1000 cash when they deposit their checks weekly. GM is no different, I used to belong to a credit union that served a plant with GM guys there and they all have lots of disposable money. Eventually though, a union will destroy a company for the sake of the employees, which are a minority when it comes to the overall people employed in the US.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 11:09 AM
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I have to say I am shocked at the first few callous responses to the OP. What arrogance. He is only expressing what millions are feeling.

I have done a lot of hiring. The goal is always to pay the minium the market will bear for lower levels of employees, regardless of experience or education. Most positions have salary caps. The upper level positions usually do not have caps and the premise is that paying as much as possible will attract the best as possible. What a crock as employees at the upper levels of many companies have less real impact on business and a shorter time in their position. Oh, but then there are the ever-popular severence packages and buy-outs for execs who don't perform aren't there? Enron anyone? Countrywide? Home Depot? Rest assured that, while they are there, they will milk their position for all it is worth and then take some more on the way out the door of the burning building.

Additonally, many upper level salaries are set by an artifical "market'" called the "Board of Directors". Strangely (or not!), when one examines the names of individuals on these boards, there is a lot of crossover. The same 100 or so people appear on many, many boards. In that respect it's almost like price-fixing as the boards across America are so in-bred. The rich and powerful will always take care of each other at the expense of the common worker.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by kosmicjack
 


First I would like to say you are way out of line calling me arrongant. If you read all of the posts I responded later and apologized for coming across that way.

Second, if you think that is callous then you live in a wonderful world with fairies and princesses. The harsh reality is that we have to take care of ourselves. Stop relying on hand outs and stop expecting your employer to give you more money for the same amount of work. Most companies give a cost of living raise. If you don't like it start your own company and work for yourself.

I have compassion for anyone on hard times. I explained that big businesses don't care about us so we have to take care of ourselves. I have been through tough times and I will probably go throught them again, but if I stood around waiting for company "X" to say" you know ole' John Doe over there is a good guy, we should give him a big raise" then I would be sweeping floors somewhere.

If the OP doesnt like my answer he should not of asked for it.
The harsh reality is that I gave him the answer that would fit most of the people in this country who want something for nothing and are too lazy to better themselves. They would much rather stand around with their hands in their pockets complaining how nobody does anything for them or the little guy.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by ben91069
Unions are a mixed blessing.


Yes, but the trouble is, if workers get rid of them, they have nothing. In the late 70s in the UK, Unions got out of hand, striking all the time etc. So what happened? Thatcher destroyed all the unions (destroying the quite profitable mining industry in order to do it). Now workers are at the mercy of the 'free-market'. With no protection. No rights. Long long working weeks and in real-terms falling salaries.

What we need is sensible control of the market and unions.
What we don't need is privatization and importation of cheap labor.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
reply to post by kosmicjack
 


First I would like to say you are way out of line calling me arrongant. If you read all of the posts I responded later and apologized for coming across that way...The harsh reality is that we have to take care of ourselves...If the OP doesnt like my answer he should not of asked for it...
The harsh reality is that I gave him the answer that would fit most of the people in this country who want something for nothing and are too lazy to better themselves.


Well, in response to your defensiveness, I would say that if you had to apologize for it, then you own it. I'm sorry if my pointing out that the tone was offensive offended you.
No harm intended yet how ironic.

My broader point was to detail how corporations and management elites take care of their own, which implies a certain disdain for the common worker, as implied by your own statements.

[edit on 30/1/08 by kosmicjack]



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
The problem is laziness. I don't mean lazy labor, i mean lazy intellects. We have allowed our nation to be what it is today by wanting cheap chinese crap, and we haven't paid attention until now.


You may not have been paying attention, but the the groups controlling the economy and the government have been paying close attention. It is designed. What is the design? To reduce the living standards of normal people. Why? To control them. The less income you have (i.e. more debt), and the less free time and energy you have, the less opportunity you have to change your life and the system of your country.



The rich ARE getting richer...but that will soon end. The bubble is deflating on the heels of the subprime crash.


No. The truly rich are insulated from any financial crash. The elite have designed the financial crash and will use it as a justification to impose tough but 'necessary' changes to the systems. Like cutting salaries and labor rights to make us more 'efficient'.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 11:50 AM
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posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 11:52 AM
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My husband is a drywall, paint, and trim carpenter. I am sure that I don't have to tell you that since construction is down, jobs are increasingly hard to find. My husband is a superb craftsman with a perfectionist's attitude, and a great work ethic. He has had his own company for nearly 30 years. We live in South Florida and had planned to retire here. A couple of years ago the influx of illegal workers began. This "cheap" labor force caused the price per square foot to drop from .75 to .40 . This is the same amount that was commonly paid back in the 1980's. My husband's earnings were nearly cut in half. We had to drop our health and life insurance, and had to refinance our home. Now, that the housing market is in freefall, there is no work at all, at any price in our area. My husband is working in Northern Florida for 1/4 of what he was making 3 years ago. He is still technically "employed", but we are losing our home, and are desperately struggling to keep food on the table and the utilities on. Our oldest daughter lost her job due to outsourcing, and she and my grandson have been forced to move home with us. Our credit is ruined and we are wondering where to go from here. When I hear on television that unemployment is only 5%, and the economy is growing, it makes me sick. What is the answer? I know that I will probably be told that this is our fault, because of poor planning or something, but is there a way out of this mess? Does anyone have some constructive ideas?



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 12:00 PM
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Well, I guess I'll dip my toe into this one...


Originally posted by Rockpuck
Corporations are very detached from the Human element of their own workforce, they rather we work like machines and not think for our selves.


Actually, I think for most employers the opposite is true. They'd rather you NOT act like machines... They expect that you will, but would prefer you did not.

As a rather large employer myself, I'm amazed at the dead landscape of talent out there. It's not so much about "prior employment experience" or "education", it's about mindset.

If you have sound judgment and are willing to treat your employer like it was your own business, managing issues outside the four corners of your job description, I find this is the fastest path to advancement and very often trumps the more traditional expected prerequisites for moving up the ladder.

Sure. I agree as a nation we need to do MUCH better at developing our workforce. Our educational system is a joke of the highest degree...

But people have much more control than they think.

The best advice I can give anyone is the following:

In any job, managing what is beneath you is not nearly as important as managing everything above and around you. It doesn't guarantee success, but it gives you a much better . start than 98% of the people out there.

Just my $0.02.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by rizla
 


How mature. I am completely amazed at how I said anything that could have offended you that badly. Not that I care, but let's try and keep this from getting personal, shall we?
I am still trying to understand what I am saying that is that much different from what you and Kosmic are saying. I totally agree that big business takes care of its own and I stated that. My only difference is that we and that includes me have to do wahtever it takes to better ourselves. It is us against them and if we stand around hoping they feel sorry for us and give us a handout we are getting what we ask for.
So enough of this childish banter, lets stick to the topic.
Oh Kosmic Jack, once again I apologized to the OP. Why did you feel the need to twist the knife. If I hadn't felt that maybe I owned it as you said then I most definitely would not have said sorry.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by CindyfromFlorida
 


Stay positive. One way or the other, things will change for the better for you if you keep smiling.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
reply to post by rizla
 


Oh Kosmic Jack, once again I apologized to the OP. Why did you feel the need to twist the knife. If I hadn't felt that maybe I owned it as you said then I most definitely would not have said sorry.


Agreed.

Back to the point, I think the difference in our perception is that, by your remarks, it seems as though there is somewhat of a judgement that the majority of people in dire straights are not doing all they can to dig out or get a.. Herein lies the difference. I believe that the structure and mechanisms of modern society (as it currently exists) are more likely to set someone up for failure than to help them make something more of their lives.

Examples:

1. You need a job but in order to do that you need transportation. Most American cities don't have adequate transportation systems. If you you buy a car then you are assuming debt and working to pay that and not get a.. I believe this example has been testified to already.

2. You would like to have a decent place to live. What constitutes decent these days often costs far more than most people can afford. People resort to financing. See the many threads on ATS about this now.

3. Your employer most likely offers a stripped down version of healthcare benefits, if any. If you get sick you are likely to have to pay the majority of the costs out of pocket. Many Americans are just one serious illness away from bankruptcy.

4. You want to improve yourself with education but the cost of higher education has skyrocketed so much, again, many people resort to financing it through college loans.

Yes, in many cases, the answer maybe get another job or two or three. But then another question would be - How is it that, just fifty years past the glory days of the American Middle Class, it has become so out of reach? Two generations have benefitted from better education only to find themselves less financially secure than their parents. In the meantime, the only economic sectors to remain contstantly present and thriving during the fifty years is Marketing, Retail and Lending - all which go hand-in-hand to divest Americans of their money.

The answer to the question posed above is that the constructs of that Middle Class success - Education, Healthcare and Manufacturing -have all been dismantled in the name of Corporate Profits.

Corporate America has single-handedly created a cheap-labor work force because now we are to the point where people will take what they can get. You say people have to take responsibilty and I agree but I further submit that so does Corporate America. It has to reinvest in the American Dream. They cannot expect that people will just keep on consuming without corporations giving back some of the profits to their employees - their employees need decent benefits and wages so that all of America, not just the rich, can partake in the American Dream.



[edit on 30/1/08 by kosmicjack]



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
 


Hey Daz. You stole the words right out of my keyboard. As a business owner, I always encourage my staff to work hard for their promotion; go to school; learn new skills, etc. However, those who expect their employer to be their nanny or handout, will not succeed in life and will always complain. Minimum wage increases are a way to dumb down the population.

Who wants to be earning $5.15 for the rest of their lives (these days $6.90). I would think no one. $6.90 sounds more comfortable to some people who might just do the least required to just get by. Believe me, if my competitor offers $7.50, I will beat him if my associate is worth it. It's not what the government tells you what the minimum wage is, it's what you're really worth.

Yes, instead of always expecting a raise, it is a free market out there. Having lived in Singapore, I learned many lessons from that great country: SINGAPORE SWING. In Singapore, a person switches jobs an average of 10 times.

The times of loyalty and hoping for a raise are over. If you want to earn more money, bring something to the table and negotiate. Just asking for a raise just because you work there and want the simpathy is not going to work. It is the simple law of SUPPLY and DEMAND.

Don't sit and wait for a raise when chances these days are you will get a pink slip (not being doom and gloom here, just realistic). Equip yourself with the necessary skills to be indispensable. Regardless of how bad the economy can become, certain skills are always needed. You can do it with effort.



[edit on 30-1-2008 by manticore]



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