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State inmates cost an average of $19,801.25 to incarcerate per year…
Federal prisoners cost an average of $23,476.80 per year to imprison.
The cost of vasectomy is typically 3 to 4 times less than the cost of tubal ligation. Although prices vary, regionally, vasectomy costs generally range from about two hundred fifty to one thousand dollars, while the cost of tubal ligation often begin at about one thousand dollars and may go as high as twenty-five hundred dollars.
Table 3: USA National Incidence Studies (NIS1, NIS2, NIS3) (PDF, 35KB)
The Table shows that the rate of neglect cases increased most dramatically over the thirteen year period.
The Family Violence Research Program at the University of New Hampshire has attempted to measure the incidence of physical abuse in the USA at Layer 4 (Straus, 1979; Straus and Gelles, 1986; Straus et al., 1998). They conducted three nationally representative surveys of American families in 1975, 1985 and 1995 to find out the levels of physical violence used in them. Severe violence to a child was when a parent acknowledged that they, or their spouse, had 'hit with an object, punched, bitten, kicked, beaten up or used a knife or gun' on their child in the last year. The incidence rates for severe violence by parents towards their children fell from 140 per 1000 children in 1975 to 107 per 1000 in 1985 and 49 per 1000 in 1995. These rates are considerably higher than those reported in the three NIS studies. Using the same measures Bardi and Borgogni-Tarli (2001) found a rate of severe violence by Italian parents to their children of 83 per 1000 children. Ghate et al. (2003) expanded the definition of severe violence to include 'smacking/slapping of the head or face' in their national survey of parental discipline in Britain and found a rate of 90 per 1000 children.
Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander My opponent begins his argument for forced sterilization in this next round by comparing the cost to sterilize an individual with the cost to incarcerate an individual, but does not go on to show the relevence of those particular figures. He closes that portion of the argument with a conclusion that somehow the fact that sterilization is less expensive per person than incarceration is, a surplus of money would be created if people were sterilized that could then be used for counseling or out patient style treatments.
A 6-year-old boy in Marshall County, Indiana, endured a horrible fate because his mother no longer wanted to care for him. She left him with his father and never came back. The boy was locked repeatedly inside a hot, dark, airless bathroom closet for more than 24 hours at a time. His crime, you ask? He was not able to fall asleep. The story gets worse, much worse. The boy was chained so that he could not sit down, forced to eat food coated with burning sauce, deprived of liquids, and when he lost control of his bowels, his captors would open the closet and rub his feces into his face. His captors were not strangers, they were his parents.
Joseph and Carmen Grad were sentenced to only 4 1/2 years in prison. As of a month ago, Joseph Grad was about to walk out of jail after serving only a year and a half of his sentence. Where is the justice?
Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander There is, on his own source a list of "risk" involved with the procedure that he fails to introduce into his argument that include perforation of the intestine, bladder or blood vessels, adhesions that could require surgery, and increased liklihood of ectopic pregnancy both while sterilized and after reversal, which can be, and is, fatal in some cases.
Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander Using my opponents own figures, he gives the rate of reversal at a high of 82% and a low of 41% for women so at best, 18% of women sterilized under such a program will permanently have their ability to bear children taken from them...It is highly unlikely that the quality of healthcare provided to these women will be top shelf. This is to be a government program overseen by a bureaucracy we are discussing here.
"Challenge Match. Sublime620 v illusionsaregrander: Deadbeat Parents
The topic for this debate is "Parents who chronically fail to support their children should be forcibly sterilized".
Sublime620 will be arguing the pro position and will open the debate.
illusionsaregrander will argue the con position. "
sup·port (s-pôrt, -prt)
tr.v. sup·port·ed, sup·port·ing, sup·ports
1. To bear the weight of, especially from below.
2. To hold in position so as to keep from falling, sinking, or slipping.
3. To be capable of bearing; withstand: "His flaw'd heart . . . too weak the conflict to support" Shakespeare.
4. To keep from weakening or failing; strengthen: The letter supported him in his grief.
5. To provide for or maintain, by supplying with money or necessities.
6. To furnish corroborating evidence for: New facts supported her story.
a. To aid the cause, policy, or interests of: supported her in her election campaign.
b. To argue in favor of; advocate: supported lower taxes.
8. To endure; tolerate: "At supper there was such a conflux of company that I could scarcely support the tumult" Samuel Johnson.
9. To act in a secondary or subordinate role to (a leading performer).
a. The act of supporting.
b. The state of being supported.
2. One that supports.
3. Maintenance, as of a family, with the necessities of life.
"My point is that you cannot disapprove of a new idea just because the current system is already flawed. Your analogy of the two cars hitting a person is completely irrelevant and I hope the judges take notice. It doesn’t even address the real issue. A more realistic analogy would be that a car is released with a major defect. A few years later they release a new upgrade to the car but never address the original problem. Should the car company scrap the new car idea or address the original defect?"
Maintenance, as of a family, with the necessities of life.
Originally posted by Sublime620 Now my opponent may try to tie this issue to eugenics. I will prove this is punitive and holds no relation to eugenics, if necessary. He may try to say that such laws would be illegal, and again, I will prove otherwise. He may try to sway your opinions by calling to ethics, and I will ask you what is more ethical than keeping children out of the hands of unfit parents?
"But the instant legislation runs afoul of the equal protection clause, though we give Oklahoma that large deference which the rule of the foregoing cases requires. We are dealing here with legislation which involves one of the basic civil rights of man. Marriage and procreation are fundamental to the very existence and survival of the race. The power to sterilize, if exercised, may have subtle, far-reaching and devastating effects. In evil or reckless hands, it can cause races or types which are inimical to the dominant group to wither and disappear. There is no redemption for the individual whom the law touches. Any experiment which the State conducts is to his irreparable injury. He is forever deprived of a basic liberty. We mention these matters not to reexamine the scope of the police power of the States. We advert to them merely in emphasis of our view that strict scrutiny of the classification which a State makes in a sterilization law is essential, lest unwittingly, or otherwise, invidious discriminations are made against groups or types of individuals in violation of the constitutional guaranty of just and equal laws. The guaranty of "equal protection of the laws is a pledge of the protection of equal laws." Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U. S. 356, 369. When the law lays an unequal hand on those who have committed intrinsically the same quality of offense and sterilizes one and not the other, it has made as invidious a discrimination as if it had selected a particular race or nationality for oppressive treatment. Yick Wo v. Hopkins, supra; Gaines v. Canada, 305 U. S. 337. Sterilization of those who have thrice committed grand larceny, with immunity for those who are embezzlers, is a clear, pointed, unmistakable discrimination. Oklahoma makes no attempt to say that he who commits larceny by trespass or trick or fraud has biologically inheritable traits which he who commits embezzlement lacks. Oklahoma's line between larceny by fraud and embezzlement is determined, as we have noted, "with reference to the time when the
Page 316 U. S. 542
fraudulent intent to convert the property to the taker's own use" arises. Riley v. State, supra, 64 Okla.Cr. at p. 189, 78 P.2d p. 715. We have not the slightest basis for inferring that that line has any significance in eugenics, nor that the inheritability of criminal traits follows the neat legal distinctions which the law has marked between those two offenses. In terms of fines and imprisonment, the crimes of larceny and embezzlement rate the same under the Oklahoma code. Only when it comes to sterilization are the pains and penalties of the law different. The equal protection clause would indeed be a formula of empty words if such conspicuously artificial lines could be drawn."
"The fact that women are being persecuted more is not a problem that is just now arising. It is a preexisting issue that needs to be addressed in a separate forum. I refuse to continue arguing about it.
Sublime was really his own worst enemy in some ways. He based many of his arguments on the idea that child abusers, rather than those who simply fail to provide adequate support, are the subjects of the proposition. If this idea is rejected, then his jury trial defense against Illusionsaregrander's points about the justice of the proposition fails, as does his argument that we will save money on prison expenses, the issue of revesability becomes more significant, and the risk involved seems less justified. Also by arguing that the individual is responsible for the cost of reversal, he effectively did bias the program against the poor.
Illusionsaregrander did a good job of raising all the right objections to the program, and although Sublime made a great effort, he couldn't sell me on his interpretation, thus he was left defenseless against those challenges. Illusionsaregrander is the winner.
Originally posted by semperfortis
My biggest weakness?
Convincing myself and assuming that means I have convinced everyone. When I put together what I consider to be a logical and convincing argument, it bewilders me that everyone may not be able to see it... LOL