Poor Haitians resort to eating dirt

This is tragic. It's embarrassing but Canada and the US have failed miserably in assistance to Haiti... same with the UN or as I like to call them the "UN" as in NOT.

Geophagy in Haiti is cultural to certain extent having a fairly long history in the Port Au' ghettos... worse in the hills. Unfortunately mud pies and cookies have been around for a while. I'm not joking. CBC did a whole piece on it back in May-ish '07. Same with Nigeria 'cept there it's a clay. The biggies in geophagy are Dr. Ray Ferrell at LSU and a Dr. Lowry... sorry, can't remember his first name. I think has was a Brit'.

My sister used to eat dirt, earthworms and all. She wasn't hurtin' for lard. Gross. She grew out of it. Lowry's research is very interesting. Dirt taken orally has some bizzaro beneficial health properties. The Missus' is out, I think there may be some radio clips online from the feature. I'll ask if she can remember for me.

This is like so sad. For the price of a week's worth of human warring... well the mind boggles. :shk:

Vic

[edit on 29-1-2008 by V Kaminski]

reply to post by V Kaminski


Well considering there are microbes and minerals in the dirt it does not surprise me that people can survive off it.

However, the nutrients are surely much less condensed than in food stuffs. Therein lies the problem...One must eat pounds of dirt to gain any kind of nutritional content, while a few ounces or less of 'food' will provide enough nutrients to sustain life.

reply to post by Freeborn


i'm glad my post has been taken in the context in which it was intended... now for the meat...

my problem is this... it's obvious that there are problems with governments and corruption, the question is what can we do about it? i mean concretely in the here and now? become freedom fighters? terrorists? few of us have it them to take up arms... and in the end will that help? we need to educate people about what products support what dictatorships... a nation of coffee drinkers and sugar eaters keep haitians where they are... and of course, the IMF and the World Bank....

but what about today? today there is something we can do... we can support organizations that work to feed the hungry... all politics aside, food is the essence of survival... freedom of speech... taxation without representation... doesn't mean anything when you're eating dirt sandwiches.... for pennies a day... hate to sound like a plea for save the children, but it doesn't take much to help... if everyone helped just one person... if for no other reason, they could brag about it with their friends!! lol

so question is, why don't we....

Geophagy (or dirt eating) has been practiced from the time humans started putting things in their mouths. Although you can survive on the nutrients contained in soil and clay it is not a good way to go about things. Being forced to endure such degradation in this day and age is inexcusable. We really dropped the ball on that one and should make amends pronto. The fact that starvation exists at all in this modern world of ours is disgusting to say the least. Just a fraction of the money allocated for human destruction would feed the world many times over. Humans...bleh!

Originally posted by Bunch
Still I think that the U.S. should take care of the people in their own backyard. How many times the U.S. has invaded Haiti for one reason or another? 2 or 3 now, and everytime they leave is worst than before.

The U.S. should step up as world superpower and lead by example, not the Iraq example mind you.

So we should spend our citizen's tax money on people who can't support themselves due to infrastructure and directly contribute to their further suffering by creating artificially sustained overpopulation?

Originally posted by Mil Spec
Although you can survive on the nutrients contained in soil and clay it is not a good way to go about things. Being forced to endure such degradation in this day and age is inexcusable. We really dropped the ball on that one and should make amends pronto. The fact that starvation exists at all in this modern world of ours is disgusting to say the least.

Our modern world? This is nature - and contrary to the belief of some spoiled, guilty middle/upper class people who have never been forced to fight for their mere survival (and I fit that), it still must be done. Not everyone is as lucky as us - and that's life. Nothing we humans do can fix it, aside from furthering technology as we are. Certain forms of charity even make it worse in the long run.

Complain to God for making the world so harsh, not fellow humans for not doing enough. If you want to do a lot, get a degree in engineering and science and work.

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Johnmike]

reply to post by never_tell



Whatever is to be done it should be done fast. It can't go on. Every leader including Papa Doc... it's just gone down hill. Some sort of accelerated order and prosperity program seems the minimum. Have you ever heard of twinning a city? After WWII many European communities benefitted. Someone should "twin" with Haiti. Preferably with a French-African-Caribbean cultural sensitivity or at least a large Haitian immigrant population within the properous "twin." Canada and the US and UN have dropped the apathy-bomb and it's led to this. Time for a new deal.

Vic

[edit on 29-1-2008 by V Kaminski]

reply to post by Johnmike


I don't really follow the whole social darwinism concept of 'survival of the fittest.'

A lot of Africa's problems root from the West's intervention. We destroyed ancient trade routes that connected southern Africa with Japan when we carved the continent up between us (being Europe).

The existing empires were either conquered and destroyed or assimilated into 'western' culture.

I am not blaming all of Africa's problem on European intervention, but we need to take credit where credit is due.

Since we cannot travel back in time to change certain our reality, what options do we have now?

Should we sit back and watch the world self-destruct? Or do educate people on how to treat the land properly and to increase yields year after year.

They have lost contact with their history and now feel like worthless pieces of meat. Can you blame them?

I wonder how different the world would be if Africans invaded Europe and made all white people slaves. We surely wouldn't have all the technological advances we have now, nor the 'easy living' that we've been comfortable with for so long.

What needs to be done? Education. Plain and simple. Propping up other countries with food and cash is not the answer as has been proven by history.

We also need to stop intervening in other cultures and disrupting the 'native' way of life.

That means LEAVING every country we are occupying, whether industrially or militarily.

The world needs a chance to progress on its own without Western support. We've done enough and now its time to let everyone do their own thing.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
reply to post by apc

 

GMO crops usually are 'terminator' seeds aka they do not reproduce seeds. You have to keep buying a new set from the 'manufacturer.'

Genetically engineered crops are not proven to be any quicker to grow, higher yielding, and definitely do not use less water.

I'll stick with my heirloom tomatoes thank you.

Scientists need to stay out of the garden and farm. They have screwed enough things up.

Aren't all modern plantfoods genetically modified? I mean, look at them and compare them to the rest of their "cousins". How does corn end up with a longer DNA strand that humans? No wonder it is so versatile.

And have you ever tried to get wheat from wild versions? There is virtually nothing to eat that your body will digest.

Regardless, this is not the US's fault. But we are a compassionate nation of plenty. We have a duty to act. "With great power comes great responsibility"..

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Bred plants and animals are completely different than 'genetically modified.' The former is cross-pollination of sorts (selection of best plants found in nature), while the latter involves splicing of DNA in a laboratory.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
reply to post by Johnmike

 

I don't really follow the whole social darwinism concept of 'survival of the fittest.'

A lot of Africa's problems root from the West's intervention. We destroyed ancient trade routes that connected southern Africa with Japan when we carved the continent up between us (being Europe).

No kidding. Our crop subsidies artificially deflate various crop prices (such as cotton) so that West Africa is unable to sustain themselves on their cash crop. Why are we giving so much in subsidization to our cotton farmers if West Africa is able to provide world need with higher quality? Cotton ruins the soil (i live in the middle of miles of cotton patch) and the yield is VERY unreliable. There is a whole industry around boll weevil eradication, and it is costly and tax supported.

The point is, we are wasting our own money and resources for no other obvious reason than to keep the West African nations begging at our table. The concept (often promoted by Nixon and Johnson, and carried forward today among the elite of the west) is that only a few nations can have, and the rest have to "have not". The only way to ensure that we have prosperity is to ruin the chances of other nations to have prosperity. Especially if they have highly valuable natural resources (diamonds, uranium).

biggie smalls, you are pretty much dead on. finish your degree, then continue making a difference. We are not a bad nation, but we allow our elected officials to create policies that give us a bad name. If people really knew, things would be different.

Me? I have lower aspirations, but will make a difference instead by doing it one person at a time.

God bless.

reply to post by V Kaminski


agreed... something has to be done... hard to say what form it will take... i have heard of twinning... ironically many cities partner up with cities just as affluent as they are!! go figure... i'm more for the personal twinning... we can't wait for governments to work it out... they're too worried about public perceptions etc... but we as individuals can do something, even if it seems small and un-noticable... just spreading the word is is a start, but giving hard personal assets away is probably more helpful... for example, a great organization is 'tools for peace"... they distribute books, paper and pencils, among other things... as simple as that sounds, it can have a profound impact on a community's children and their ability to get an better education... again if we all picked just one project to support and gave a little each day....


maybe we should start a drive hear at ATS? we could easily setup a paypal donation system... $1 a month from every member could help a lot of people... Mods? Overloards? thoughts?

Using the Irish potato famine as proof of some Malthusian population crash is incorrect, and supports the government corruption and ineptitude theory instead.

It's possible those poor starving Irish enjoyed seeing boats filled with food being shipped off to the English land owners. A situation that bordered on genocide.

The Haiti situation is a failure of local Government, and one it obviously cannot correct. Since the sole purpose of the UN is to help rectify situations beyond the ability of local governments to control, the UN is a failure as well.

But hey, it's easy to say let them eat dirt (while being well fed in Ohio, oh god the 3rd world situations there, well Cleveland aside) like some aristocratic English prick from the 18th century.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Bred plants and animals are completely different than 'genetically modified.' The former is cross-pollination of sorts (selection of best plants found in nature), while the latter involves splicing of DNA in a laboratory.

How can we be sure they were bred. In only 5000 years of agriculture? And if you look at seed samples that are half that old, there is not really any difference.

Were they bred? Or do we just assume they were bred? And exactly what constitutes "advanced" when discussing civilization?

Originally posted by biggie smalls
I don't really follow the whole social darwinism concept of 'survival of the fittest.'

I'm not sure how this relates exactly, but since it's addressed toward me, I guess it's fitting to say that I don't follow that belief.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
A lot of Africa's problems root from the West's intervention. We destroyed ancient trade routes that connected southern Africa with Japan when we carved the continent up between us (being Europe).

The existing empires were either conquered and destroyed or assimilated into 'western' culture.

I am not blaming all of Africa's problem on European intervention, but we need to take credit where credit is due.

That "us" doesn't include me if you want to imply that, especially due to my lack of roots in that and firm belief in noninterventionism.

I have no idea what Africa has to do with this really.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Should we sit back and watch the world self-destruct? Or do educate people on how to treat the land properly and to increase yields year after year.

Education is great, as is leading by example. I'm a firm supporter of that form of charity - a "teaching a man to fish" sort of thing.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
They have lost contact with their history and now feel like worthless pieces of meat. Can you blame them?

Absolutely irrelevant, but I guess you can't? I'm not expert.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
I wonder how different the world would be if Africans invaded Europe and made all white people slaves.

Huh?

1) Slavery was not an exclusively race-based concept and no, nothing near all or most or half or anything of black people was made slaves.

2) Slavery was not introduced by Europeans. Do you really think that a few dozen slave traders on a big ship rounded up hundreds and thousands of slaves?

If you do, then there's a serious problem. Slave traders were just that - traders. They bought them. From who? Other Africans. It doesn't make it any less wrong on anyone's part, but it's important that you get that part of history correct.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
What needs to be done? Education. Plain and simple. Propping up other countries with food and cash is not the answer as has been proven by history.

We seem to agree here.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
We also need to stop intervening in other cultures and disrupting the 'native' way of life.

And here.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
That means LEAVING every country we are occupying, whether industrially or militarily.

I'm not sure what you mean by "industrially." Free trade is beneficial to everyone, but it's just as dangerous as an undeveloped country's secluded socialism if the government is idiotic and corrupt.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
The world needs a chance to progress on its own without Western support. We've done enough and now its time to let everyone do their own thing.

That's what I say about the military and "sustenance charity." I'm just afraid of people closing borders to trade and technology.

reply to post by Johnmike


I don't really know how I got onto Africa either, but the same goes for the Caribbean and pretty much everywhere else in the world.

I generally agree with everything you said.

I want to make a point that I don't think we should 'withdraw' our technology, but give the option for nations and peoples to use it or not. We shouldn't be forcing 'new toys' down other cultures throats like we have been doing.


texan,

Crops like corn/maize are the product of human cross-breeding over hundreds of years in Central and South America. What we know today as food did not exist prior to our involvement. I think the same is true for many varieties of crop.

We take the best producers and the hardiest, most drought resistant plants and cross-breed them in hopes an edible variety comes out. Typically one plant would be pretty disgusting tasting, but have some sort of quality that we really wanted. The other would be the typical crop and usually would be vulnerable to some pest or drought prone.

[edit on 1/29/2008 by biggie smalls]

the haitian situation is much larger than some banana republic king
skimming the money at the expense of his citizens. there is only one
reason cubans are allowed the "one foot" rule and haitians are forcefully
sent back to poverty. beginning in the 17th. century, a caste system was
created that kept plantation owners (french) at the top, mulattos in the middle and blacks at the bottom. the caste system has lasted to this
day in most of central, south america and the caribbean. there are
several here i bow to, and a few of which i feel disgust.

we can talk all this "galactic federation" crap til dooms day but until we
treat fellow humans like humans, we will never be allowed in.

before someone else chimes in that "it's their fault" and "they steal
the supplies before they reach the public", excuses are a dime a dozen.

you are directly affecting the direction of your soul's travel and you
are being watched......tsk. tsk. tsk.

BIG UPS BIGGIE SMALLS!!!!!

[edit on 29-1-2008 by last time here]

[edit on 29-1-2008 by last time here]

reply to post by whatukno


Aw, Wuky, long time no see.. and to think you think me heartless.

I am just a realist, and reality is Humans need to abide by nature, because nature will keep order regardless of what we do. As you rightly said, to save them now is to try and save 3 times as many 50 years from now.. The whole world needs a population cut, America, Europe included.. our strive for survival will doom us all..

Anyways, long time no see, u2u me sometime.

reply to post by whatukno


Agreed.

We have surpassed (or reached) the Earth's carrying capacity for humans by a few billion in part to industrialization.

I think we can keep the population at around the same level if we use ecologically friendly building practices, food production, energy consumption, and resource management.

If we continue the way we're going (China and India included) the whole ecosystem is going to crash and we are NOT going to make it (regardless of what our scientists think).

We're on the edge of extinction. We choose to adapt and evolve, or stagnate and die. It really is up to us this time around.

Originally posted by kameuh
Using the Irish potato famine as proof of some Malthusian population crash is incorrect, and supports the government corruption and ineptitude theory instead.

It's possible those poor starving Irish enjoyed seeing boats filled with food being shipped off to the English land owners. A situation that bordered on genocide.

The Haiti situation is a failure of local Government, and one it obviously cannot correct. Since the sole purpose of the UN is to help rectify situations beyond the ability of local governments to control, the UN is a failure as well.

But hey, it's easy to say let them eat dirt (while being well fed in Ohio, oh god the 3rd world situations there, well Cleveland aside) like some aristocratic English prick from the 18th century.

Absolutely.. though it was also the Irish who did this as well (many land owners in the Western country where of Irish decent, not English, and they shipped their supplies else where) .. It was for the most part the firm belief in the Free Market.. that the market would stabalize its self.. once food kitchens where established and the Tory's where kicked out of office by the Whigs, the kitchens where stopped, even though the Whigs where the ones supporting the Irish.

But aside from the political aspect of it.. the Irish Potato Famine showed the world a few key things that we did not learn from history.

1. The potato, unlike popular belief, is NOT Irish by any means, it was American shipped to Ireland to plant.. in fact the Blight hat killed off the crops where from Peru I believe, bought from American ports in New York used as Seed Potatoes (instead of using their own saved from previous harvest) .. that brought in the fungus from South America that killed the crops. Basically.. the Potato being an alien food source replaced the Irish diet. The plant thrives in Ireland, but had no place there to begin with. And what came with the potato?

2. Bringing in outside food sources increases population where the population was for the most part stagnet or slowly rising. The potato could nourish 100x better then wheats, porks, beefs and sea food... easy to grow in Ireland, it was the food of the poor man.. so a family who could have 6 children and have 3 or 4 die off could now with the potato have 12 kids with maybe 2 or 3 dieing off... because the potato supported the increased population.

3. To support the increased population that came with the new food, it would have to become a staple crop as well as a cash crop.. when a Blight hit the fields that was all they grew.. while grain supplies where shipped over seas due to free market price rising for the goods.. (the same blight hit America as well, in fact first, but America was never Dependant on the crop) ..

So what does this show us?

Take a plant out of its eco system and put it into another...

The plant supports far more life per square mile then old harvest did.. giving rise to increased population.

When populations exceed what the land could bare, and one crop fails, the result is 1.5 million starving in a matter of years, millions more fleeing the country. As I said, the population never recovered. Not in 200 years. Of course there are a number of reasons why, mostly political, Ireland went from the densest populated country in the early 1800's to its normal state.

So I think their situation is a perfect example of what to and what not to do. We can ship food all over the world, but we simply keep people alive, a poor existance at that.. imo, its best to let them die off, and return to what nature intends.

This is a perfect example of where Cannibalism should come into effect.

I mean really, if you are to the point where you have to eat cookies made of dirt, or mud from the ground, you are going to die.

So what is it then, you dieing, or that .. disabled or older, slower person over there? Go kill him and cook him up. Share the meat with your family.

I really think Haitians should be eating each other.. it would solve population control as well.