Guns, what good are they....?

They kill people, they are designed for the soul purpose to kill….and so why do so many people enjoy owning something that has the potential to kill whether it’s someone or something. Gun loving Americans and all…..I don’t think I need to go over the figures of gun related deaths in America…..but like…..what’s going on…..

What is it with people and wanting guns…?

Is it to defend your home….?

To defend yourselves….?

So..…is there some kind of scare in America where everyone’s in a panic…right outside your door is the enemy..? That everyone is out to get you…I mean…. this is ridiculous…..

or it just the overwhelming desire to have one, to own one…..?

Or is this something to do with 9/11……

Can I get some help here…………………………

I think it has something to do with power! you know that this gun can take the life of some body else!

So when you have a gun you feel safe and powerfull over yourself or your family!

When somebody is in your house! you dont know what that person is going to do! you cant attack him with your bare hands!

I say the power for that moment is in your hands with a gun!

Firstly, and this has been said time and time again, guns DO NOT kill people!

PEOPLE kill people. With whatever comes to hand.

Soldiers, acting more often than not, on behalf of immoral and cowardly politicians, kill people.

With firearms. That's their job and firearms are the tools of their trade.

Personally speaking, I'd love to live in America. The Land of the Free and Gun-Toting.

Here in the Uk, we have strictly prohibitive anti-gun laws.

This prohibits me from following a sport that I love and, when I was a member of the armed forces, I became a weapons instructor in order to follow my sport = Combat Pistol and Combat Shotgun.

Now, thanks to a few nutters, I am unable to carry on.

At least in America, you can own and shoot most types of firearms.

reply to post by fritz


Yep.....people kill people......but if you take away the guns....it just becomes that little but harder.....You can’t have a war between countries without guns, without missiles, without weapons…..you take away the most lethal arms and the world’s a happier and safer place…

without guns... this would be a much worse world,guns are what keep people in check,without guns,just about anyone could do anything around here. But knowing what guns do.. and not knowing who may have one is what keeps me or anyone else from doing what we please.

reply to post by KINGOFPAIN


Of course, "people" are the enemy. You've been trained by your government, big or small, to see each of your neighbors as a potential threat to your life. Or maybe not "neighbors" since that might upset your sensibilities, but rather some vaguely-defined "Stranger" usually with the implication that said "Stranger" has a different skin color than you do. Never mind that the majority of violent crimes are committed by people perfectly familiar to the victim and not this white-brown-yellow-black "stranger," you must ALWAYS be armed and vigilant against that stranger!

Why every day your government kills hundreds of those different-skinned strangers over there, saving you the cost of bullets. How generous. And of course, you're supposed to support that, since hey, it's what YOU would do, right?

Of course your goverment, or rather the politicians that run it, will also tell you that you, as an armed citizen, are protecting your rights, and so they will preserve your right to bear arms (though to do so, they need to strip away all those other rights from you in the first place...) They tell you you're the front line if the government ever becomes a tyranny - of course, THEY aren't the tyrants, heavens no, they let you have your guns, yessiree bob,. the government that outspends the entire rest of the world on its military is scared to death of your winchester, you betcha!

Originally posted by andre18
reply to post by fritz

 

Yep.....people kill people......but if you take away the guns....it just becomes that little but harder.....You can’t have a war between countries without guns, without missiles, without weapons…..you take away the most lethal arms and the world’s a happier and safer place…

Nope when you take away guns, only the criminals have them, because they don't care if it is illegal, and they get bolder, knowing their potential victims are un armed.

One of the first steps to every dictatorship is to disarm the population.
The government controlled media only allows reporting of nutters killing people, only very rarely do they report on any violence and mass killing prevented by an armed citizen.
Take the VT shootings. Never reported that just a few miles away at another bastion of higher learning, a mass killing was prevented by several students, though not allowed to carry on campus, were allowed to keep them in their vehicles, and retrieved them when a nutter arrived to massacre the students and faculty. No shots were fired, but they held the shooter at bay until the police arrived.

Nope when you take away guns, only the criminals have them, because they don't care if it is illegal, and they get bolder, knowing their potential victims are un armed.

Look at Australia, please show me where there are reports of criminals holding up a 7/11 with guns.....and even if you do some how, it would only be something like 1-2 a year max......Look at the number of gun related deaths in both Australia and England.....they don't even touch 100......

Australia is literally one of safest countries in the world…..hmmmm, I wonder why….



[edit on 29-1-2008 by andre18]

reply to post by andre18


I don't think it would be possible to remove guns now even if we wanted to, there are to many in circulation. However I can see your point. Although, as someone else said, the criminals would still end up with guns and then the innocents owuld be in more danger.

I think the UK and US could benefit from taking a leaf out of Australias book with regards to the justice system and immigration. The UK is an island for goodness sake, how hard can it be to stop people getting in?

Cuts here, cuts there, taxes here and everywhere. What our government needs is a good kick up the arse and a reality check before anything improves. Instead of looking at the obvious stuff.. good healthcare, good education, hug a hoody, stop global warming..blah blah, how about getting out of the middle east and Afghanistan, stopping people coming through the channel tunnel on the outside of the train, lock anyone found with a gun up for a decent amount of time, lower taxes, lower the price fo food for goodness sake! I work full time on a decent wage and I still struggle for money because of these things. Imagine how much money could be saved by NOT being at war over there... we aren't getting anywhere are we? All it is doing is creating more hatred to the West is it a surprise seeing as we are bombing them up lerft right and centre yet still not acheiving anything other than getting our own people along with their civilians killed. What's the worst that could happen? As long as we make sure our borders and airspace are well protected and intelligence is kept as good as it can be, the UK should be faily safe. Would the extreme Islamics really try to take over the world with Islam? I don't think they would. If they did start to get out of hand, that is when action should be taken. if it aint in my backyard, it aint my problem. There are worse things happening in Africa and hardly anything is ever done about that. So leading back from my little digression... no it wouldn't hurt to stop with the weaponry..

[edit on 29-1-2008 by fiftyfifty]

[edit on 29-1-2008 by fiftyfifty]

reply to post by andre18


Firstly, please don't participate in the weaponry forum designed for weaponry discussion if all you want is to flaunt your anti-weaponry ideals. Go to hillary's website for that.

If you wan't to talk about Australia, here are some figures for what happened in the year following gun confiscation:

Australia wide: homicides are up 3.2 percent.
Australia-wide: assaults are up 8.6 percent.
Australia-wide: armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent).

In the state of Victoria, homicides with firearms are up 300 percent. Figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robberies with firearms.

Well sh*t. Australia is SAFE huh?

Not to mention you are simply wrong if you say that its the legal guns that are doing the killing. Want to know how many homicides there have been in AMERICAN HISTORY with a LEGAL, REGISTERED, LICENSED machine gun?

One. By a COP. To kill another COP.

And no, taking away the tools to make killing easy will sure has hell not reduce killing, if someone is determined to kill someone else they will find a way. Want an example? Look at jail. People strap razor blades from shaving razors onto toothbrushes to kill someone in there. You get my point.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by KINGOFPAIN

 

Of course, "people" are the enemy. You've been trained by your government, big or small, to see each of your neighbors as a potential threat to your life. Or maybe not "neighbors" since that might upset your sensibilities, but rather some vaguely-defined "Stranger" usually with the implication that said "Stranger" has a different skin color than you do. Never mind that the majority of violent crimes are committed by people perfectly familiar to the victim and not this white-brown-yellow-black "stranger," you must ALWAYS be armed and vigilant against that stranger!

This government is more an enemy to me than the "people" but it certainly wasn't government that taught me "people" were the enemy. I don't know what sort of rich, gated community you live in but out here in what we call the "real world" assaults, muggings, and home invasions happen every damn day. I don't have one acquaintance here that hasn't been a victim of something.

www.newhavenindependent.org...

www.newhavenindependent.org...

www.newhavencrimelog.org...

I have my guns to stop an intruder or mugger dead as well as any gov. "official" who feels his surplus of guns and prisons justifies kicking in my door at 2:30 AM to steal my property and rape my children.

They don't make me "powerful" like some poster suggested. They barely make me equal.

FYI Harvard Journal of Law - More Guns, Less Crime

Trouble is, where I am, nobody has guns except for the criminals and so few residents you could count them on one hand. We have grand liberal institutions telling everyone in town it's morally superior to be a raped, robbed and beaten corpse than to be standing alive over a dead assailant.

I'll give you that if we had some magic fairy dust to make every gun disappear and all knowledge of their mechanics and construction went bye-bye we'd stop gun-violence. But a) that isn't going to happen and b) it would just be replaced by something else

Take some advice and pull your own head out of magic fairy land before reality rips it out for you. You've a better chance of surviving if you pull it out on your own terms. Trust me.

when I saw the columbine movie I think I no what the op is talking about but if we had no guns I think we could use nives and baseball bats

Originally posted by andre18
They kill people, they are designed for the soul purpose to kill…

Can I get some help here…………………………

I your mind they are to kill people. I my mind they are the sole purpose of defense. Our Republic here in the USA says that in order to stop the wrongs of our government we must have civilian military to confront and make them do the will of the people. Of course they have Federalized our NG and taking the rights from our states to perform which was a god given right to protect our freedoms. I understand your logic , but you have to understand what the other person who has a weapon wants from you. Now at first you think ok he.she is desperate and must need something really bad, but understand by force one does not impringe the rights of others due to the wants of a few. So to protect oneself from those who want to take with out even asking I say yes you need protection.

Firstly, please don't participate in the weaponry forum designed for weaponry discussion if all you want is to flaunt your anti-weaponry ideals. Go to hillary's website for that.

I have an opinion on guns, and seeing how this forum is designed for weaponry discussion I should have every right to discuss my views here.....what, is this forum exclusive for gun lovers only...? That seems a bit one sided....

If you wan't to talk about Australia, here are some figures for what happened in the year following gun confiscation:

Australia wide: homicides are up 3.2 percent.
Australia-wide: assaults are up 8.6 percent.
Australia-wide: armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent).

If anything you just boosted my argument......sure 44 percent...that's fine....just imagine that percent in America or Saudi Arabia. The gun ban in Australia even with a 44 percent increase that's nothing compared to what would be if guns were not banned....duh.....

I’m guessing people will always be able to build guns from home, but making a gun ban makes those gun related deaths go down a helllll of a lot…..

In the state of Victoria, homicides with firearms are up 300 percent. Figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robberies with firearms.

Well sh*t. Australia is SAFE huh?

Hell yes......of course people are going to still use guns.....but a gun ban is still going to reduce the numbers.......from simply buying one you have to have the know how to build one....and knowing how to build a gun isn’t common knowledge....

Not to mention you are simply wrong if you say that its the legal guns that are doing the killing. Want to know how many homicides there have been in AMERICAN HISTORY with a LEGAL, REGISTERED, LICENSED machine gun?

One. By a COP. To kill another COP.

That's machine gun......I'd like you to point out how many "homicides there have been in AMERICAN HISTORY with a LEGAL, REGISTERED, LICENSED gun" not just a certain type of gun..... but every type.....



[edit on 29-1-2008 by andre18]

reply to post by andre18


Building a gun is not rocket science and you really don't need any specialized equipment to make one in a pinch a drill a dremel tool (rotary grinder) and a hack saw and you can pretty much build one using sheet metal for the lower receiver and magazine as well as the frame and seamless metal tubing for the bolt breech block and slide as well as cutting metal to make all the smaller interconnecting pieces yes it will take longer than it would with a lathe and mill but if it was that tough humans wouldn't have been building them long ago..

I also can't believe you posted this in the weapons section save it for the other forums this is not a weapons discussion based on ideology but instead based on specifications and usage so unless you can participate on that level you should save it cause nobody on this particular forum wants to hear it I for one really like weaponry and didn't you post this same discussion in another forum a few weeks back and get pretty much the same responses

at any rate good luck with whatever dream world you live we aren't there and probably won't ever be..

Respectfully
GEO

Homocide Statistics for Australia, 2005-2006

Gunshot 42 victims
Stabbing 101 victims
Beating 85 victims
Suffocation/strangulation 21 victims
Unknown 43 victims
Other 9 victims

*Unknown includes: drug overdose, drowning/submersion, smoke inhalation, neglect, shaking, pushed from a high place and other cause of death.

More statictics can be found here, www.aic.gov.au... , straight from the Australian .gov.

By those statistics, and using your own faulty logic, Australia would be able to curb its murder rate if edged and blunt tools were banned. It appears there is 2 to 3 times the need for bans on edged and blunt tools than there is on firearms.

Thats 283 murders, 42 of which involved firearms for 21 million people. Of the 42 firearm related murders, 35 of the firearms were unregistered (i.e. illegal, not subject to the ban)

U.S. Population is approximately 303 million, and 10,177 people were murdered with firearms, per the F.B.I. site here www.fbi.gov...

In the U.S. there were 224, 092 deaths caused by daibetes in 2002 (NIDDK) , in 2005 there were 42,443 deaths attributed to automobiles(NHTSA), there were 564,830 deaths related to cancer in 2006 (American Cancer Society).

Firearms are designed to expel a projectile, same as a screwdriver is designed to tighten fasteners. Can you kill with a firearm, absolutely, just as you can kill with a screwdriver, hammer, knife, etc. Australian statistics show that without guns, Australians will still find ways to murder one another. So to take away the most lethal weapon (the firearm in your opinion), Australians, and mankind in general will most certianly find ways to fight wars and kill one another. It may not be right, it may not make you feel safe, but it seems humans will kill one another wether it is with firearms or clubs.

It seems you are a young, idealistic man who too readily believes the propoganda that guns are evil. What is evil, a piece of metal and wood, or the person who uses that piece of metal and wood to commit evil?



[edit on 29-1-2008 by Coshy]

Originally posted by andre18

If you wan't to talk about Australia, here are some figures for what happened in the year following gun confiscation:

Australia wide: homicides are up 3.2 percent.
Australia-wide: assaults are up 8.6 percent.
Australia-wide: armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent).

If anything you just boosted my argument......sure 44 percent...that's fine....just imagine that percent in America or Saudi Arabia. The gun ban in Australia even with a 44 percent increase that's nothing compared to what would be if guns were not banned....duh.....

A 44 percent increase in gun crime post gun-ban is a positive trend to you? Arithmetic and constitutional law must not be your strong subjects. An increase in something bad (gun crime) is always bad. DUH!

If I came to rob your home of half your personal possessions you would (hopefully) agree that it was a bad thing. Yet, according to what you said above, if I came back to steal 44 percent more stuff from you, that would be an overall improvement to your situation.

Originally posted by andre18

In the state of Victoria, homicides with firearms are up 300 percent. Figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robberies with firearms.

Well sh*t. Australia is SAFE huh?

Hell yes......of course people are going to still use guns.....but a gun ban is still going to reduce the numbers.......from simply buying one you have to have the know how to build one....and knowing how to build a gun isn’t common knowledge....

No, no, no. People do not have to start building their own guns once you decide to illegalize guns. What happens is that people change from buying legal weapons from legal, taxed, and monitored family-owned businesses to purchasing illegal weapons from illegal black-markets run by organized criminal groups.

So you implicitly support the laundering of drug and blood money instead of explicitly protecting the peoples' right to ensure their own safety and survival? It is almost criminal to think that way (in the US) and it is dangerous to even imagine that your touchy-feely world-view is enlightened.

Jon

EDIT: spelling

[edit on 1.29.2008 by Voxel]

People would just use other things to kill eachother if there were no guns. The problem is not guns, but people. I never needed a gun, but I have 3.

Are you kidding me???

While we're at it we need to also ban knives, bats, sticks, stones, poison, EMF emitting devices, food additives and preservatives, artificial colors and sweeteners, incompentent doctors, about 1/3 of all pharmaceuticals, blunt objects in general, cars, busses, trucks, vans, motorcycles, airplanes, parachutes, bungee jumping, bicycles, broken bottles, swords, forks, etc... Because each and every on of those items, plus thousands more can be used to kill people! And the good Lord knows that anything that can be used to kill someone should be outlawed immediately!

And because we are all so certain that the thieves and criminal element amongst us are more than willing to adhere to our laws and regulations, everything should return to an absolute Utopia, right?

I'm hopeful that my diatribe has illuminated the complete futility, and ridiculousness, of your arguments. RESPONSIBLE people should have every right in the world to own a gun. I have several. I have never killed anyone. I have no intention of ever killing anyone or anything. I do not get a sense of power from having them. I possess them because the criminal element I was referring to before DOES NOT respond to laws and regulations and I need a way to defend myself, my family and my property.

If you have a such a problem with guns then don't own any! But keep your praddling drivel away from my weapons and my right to possess them!

Fire extinguishers are unnecessary too. I've always owned at least one but have never had occasion to use one. Perhaps I should throw them away?

Like fire extinguishers, guns in the hands of a responsible individual are unecessary right up until the time they are needed. And then they are vitally necessary.