China establishing a military base in Iran?

I do not think it was a mistake , you look at how the US military operates, Iraq was a so called mistake .. but it wasn't really was it . It's easy to put a fool up as president and do all the things you wanted to, and blame it on buffoonery . The people calling Bush a fool are wrong . There is an economy in doing the things that people think are stupid, and it generally equates to corporate gains and taxpayers losses , but they will attribitute it to some dumb decision by gw bush .

I will have to look back into 99 a little closer, the aircraft event was in 2001 as you say.


Thing is.. nobody believes the USA anymore , we all know about the intention Bush had to blow up al jazeera in qatar on an innocent mistaken bomb drop .. they are criminals you have in power , unfortunately.. people never trust anything from your present US viewpoint, you are up in the sky on a cloud of propoganda and lies .



[edit on 29-1-2008 by Rahl Darc]

I don't think China want any conflict with USA now.
Chinese policy is " 滔光养诲", that means: avoid any conflict and
keep accumulating power before invincible.
When China becomes invincible, every thing USA did to
China must be retaliated, include the bombing of Chinese embassy.
understand?

So you Americans have enough time playing as a rascal
in world stage, maybe 10 or 20 years, then hehe.....
the pay day come.

I reckon the nations of south america , asia and africa will take americans as slaves , as part-payment for the sins of their forefathers . In an oil-less world they will need cart pullers.

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Rahl Darc]

Some nations have an outlook that lasts beyond a couple of elections...

China will grow larger

reply to post by IAF101


There won`t be any NATO troops going near Taiwan - and a Pro China government has just been voted in anyway.

Originally posted by TheoOne
WWIII is on folks, this time it's...

US/UK/Israel vs Iran/China/Russia

Uninformed much???

Now could you please tell me your logic as to why China would help Russia??? And to why they would both help Iran???

Also add all of the EU,Turkey,India and Australia to our side... VS Iran... and a few other sandbox countrys.

reply to post by Harlequin


The government may be pro china but compared to what? They are still pro Taiwan and thats why they havent stopped buying more and more arms and weapons from the US. Also even if China doesnt want it, they can do nothing about it. Already the US has a base just 250 kms away from taiwan on Japan's southern most island.

People forget that this kind of game the US has already played for years.

Americans believe while they affix two words "freedom" and "democracy"
on their forehead, then they deservedly acquire the right to do
eveything they want,
That is the typical logic of a rascal country.
So USA will deservedly become the common enemy of rest of the world.
hehehe....

^^ As apposed to the logic of running your own unarmed citizens over by tanks?

Any nation in the world be they a democracy or not would be more favorable to a country that is run by elected officials from the people than appointed dictators.

Yes, China is far from perfect.but that doesn't mean a hegemony deservedly get the right to bomb Chinese embassy
and split Chinese territory.
those action not only hurt the interest of Chinese government but also Chinese people.

Oil and War
It has been noted that the Allies won WW II by choking the oil supplies to the Axis powers.
The link below shows a cooling off of trade between the west and China. The Chinese give an honest answer to the “WHY” of there cooling relation with the Canadian oil industry. Simply put they do not like human rights, democracy or environmental concerns to stand in their path toward dominance www.theglobeandmail.com...

“Ms. Evans replied that she knew nothing about the spy issue. But the sceptical question was one example of China's doubts about Canada as an oil supplier. Beijing wants a relationship of trust with its oil suppliers – and that means it usually prefers to buy from authoritarian regimes in Africa, Latin America or the former Soviet Union, where there are no complications about democracy or minority rights…”


The oil sands are very expensive to develop; the payoff to the players is simply, safe, secure oil. This is the attitude of the US oil companies at work in this huge oil play.

China now views Canada as a US pawn.

www.canada.com...

If you have read the above links you can now formulate the understanding of the Chinese government toward North America. Lets us now look at some interesting poker between the US Navy and the Chinese.
www.investors.com...
The Kitty Hawk as well as some other smaller US Navy vessels were refused safe harbour last November. The link will give you part of the story…here is a snippet.

“Naval Superiority: China did more than just inconvenience U.S. sailors on a port visit two months ago. It forced a naval confrontation that could have gotten ugly. As the People's Republic puts to sea, it may yet.” Quote from Investors.com

www.abcnews.go.com...
Then after some fierce diplomacy here is the Chinese reply..”There is no need to fear us”

Here is a snippet from the link… "If you say the U.S. is afraid of our military development, and then it means the U.S. does not have enough guts, it's easily scared,” he said.”We are not that capable. There is no need to fear us."

Look at the link in order to gain a better grasp of the situation.

So let’s look at the game closer to home. South America, whose population has cooled toward the United States and Canada, are warming up to the Chinese. On my trips to the land of Che I was complexly caught off guard by the large Chinese immigrant population in South America. Others have been surprised as well. Here is quote from a fellow traveler.www.nolanchart.com...
In the Western Hemisphere Cuba has turned to China as an economic opportunity in the face of American sanctions and is one of China's booming transport system development market's largest buyers. There are also satellite communications interception sites in Cuba operated by the Chinese military. These pose a significant threat to American communication systems. Many other South American nations have seen the military potential of the Asian superpower and joint military training is common in our continent's southern neighbor..... "

I find "Nolanchart" comment below very interesting as well.
The largest danger that could catapult China into the worlds next great superpower is the naval expansions taking place. If the Chinese navy were ever able to match the combined forces of England and America she would be able to secure natural resources and woo new allies. It would be a hopeless situation for us. In 2003 the People's Liberation Army Navy launched it's first Aegis Cruiser, the modern naval necessity for a superpower. The old Soviet aircraft carrier Varyag was purchased in 2001 and has been used for training. In 2007 the navy announced it was developing an aircraft ca

Gs001 is right. While thoughts of China may bring memories of Tienanmen Square type human rights issues... They're not going worldwide killing other peoples civilians.

It's been proven in cases such as Iraq that the US military not only doesn't discriminate combatant from civilian, war vets have made it painfully clear that the US military actually ENCOURAGES the deaths of Iraqi civilians.


So, if this argument between you two is going to consist of who is more righteous... I'll have to say that China's coming out of this looking pretty clean compared to the US.

[edit on 29-1-2008 by johnsky]

In regards to my earlier post I believe you can see how alarming this game is becoming. Dick Cheney has promised Canada continued support as shown in this link...www.canada.com...

"Cheney reassures premier about oilsands..." headline from above link.

This assurance brings a lot more into play..namely the thawing Northwest passage. The long play chess game in the west will now take into account the bountiful oil below Canada's artic ocean.

This, of course is just a brief on some of the game. The Chinese are master spies, very patient, and fierce. We need to out play the Chinese now in both the diplomatic front as well as in the economic, military front.

Cheers

Originally posted by gs001
I don't think China want any conflict with USA now.
Chinese policy is " 滔光养诲", that means: avoid any conflict and
keep accumulating power before invincible.
When China becomes invincible, every thing USA did to
China must be retaliated, include the bombing of Chinese embassy.
understand?

Let me guess; you are a Chinese born and raised in USA, right? If i'm not wrong in that then for your case I have a say that is very common where I come from: Raise the snake close to your chest and will come a day that the snake will remember that is just a snake and he'll bite you...

But watch out, when you pay back with bombing make sure don't hit any China Town in the States.

Originally posted by gs001
Yes, China is far from perfect.but that doesn't mean a hegemony deservedly get the right to bomb Chinese embassy
and split Chinese territory.
those action not only hurt the interest of Chinese government but also Chinese people.

If the chinese set up embassies next to every dictators den, do they expect any less? You play with fire, expect to get burnt, otherwise you are just being naive.

It is the people withing China who want to split and form their own country away from communist rule. We support democracy and all attempts to gain that. Just because the Chinese people "Think" this part is theirs or that part is theirs doesnt mean the people who live there also think so.

Originally posted by johnsky
Gs001 is right. While thoughts of China may bring memories of Tienanmen Square type human rights issues... They're not going worldwide killing other peoples civilians.

That is because the Chinese are already committing human rights abuses since so long that the press has gotten tired of reporting them for many decades. The idea that they are not "going worldwide killing other people", how about Tibet ? They have 'occupied' that country and have decimated its culture and people. Just because it has been happening since ages and the news media is too craven to conduct any sort of journalism from there due to either restrictions or apathy the fact doesnt change.

I would say what they have done to Tibet is far worse than what the US army has done to Iraq.

Originally posted by johnsky
It's been proven in cases such as Iraq that the US military not only doesn't discriminate combatant from civilian, war vets have made it painfully clear that the US military actually ENCOURAGES the deaths of Iraqi civilians.

A myth propagated on conspiracy sites like this one and others nothing more. If that were the case we'd have just nuked IRaq over and over again, god knows we would save lots of money and effort getting rid of all those antique nuclear weapons lying around. There would be no reason to stay and establish a government or spend billion in aid and redevelopment costs if we didnt care for the Iraqi people. We could have done what the Soviets did and ran over the IRaqis with tanks and taken what we wanted. That hasnt happened and most Iraqis actually want the Coalition troops in Iraq today because they are the only ones who look out for the Iraqi people.

Originally posted by gs001
I don't think China want any conflict with USA now.
Chinese policy is " 滔光养诲", that means: avoid any conflict and
keep accumulating power before invincible.
When China becomes invincible, every thing USA did to
China must be retaliated, include the bombing of Chinese embassy.
understand?

Read my link...The Chinese are showing their colours!! They have shot down a satellite..(Space Race) as well as stopped US Navy ships from docking in Hong Kong...breaking a long time tradition toward fellow mariners!

They have dissed Canada...after Canada has shown an open arm to the Chinese. This includes imprisonig a Canadian citizen!

On top of that they are challenging India in the Indian Ocean and borders.www.atimes.com...
www.asianresearch.org...
There is a proxy war between India and Pakistan/China as of now!
english.peopledaily.com.cn...

This game is for keeps....and our very freedom is on the table!!

The USA won the Pacific War in WW II freeing China from the hands of Japan.
The USA opened up trade with China, allowing the Chinese to prosper!

I could argue that the Chinese owe us....big time!!!

[edit on 29-1-2008 by whiteraven]

[edit on 29-1-2008 by whiteraven]

To gs001, and Rahl Darc I presume that neither of you are from the US. I find it rather sickening to think of someone making light of any kind of possible atrocity to the general American population. For the actions taken by a country's government are not always endorsed by it's public.

On the other hand allow me to say this, with the way the US government works, if it came down to an all or nothing situation (I.E. invasion of US soil or complete economic collapse) and it appeared that the US would lose then I would seriously start to worry. An animal always fights hardest when it has nothing left to lose, and last I checked, thousands of nuclear weapons are a far cry from teeth and claws. The only way to get past that is to find a way to neutralize that particular threat, which I don't see happening anytime soon.

Originally posted by gs001
So you Americans have enough time playing as a rascal
in world stage, maybe 10 or 20 years, then hehe.....
the pay day come.

...furthermore.....your skies in Bejing are filthy with pollution.

...China has had a long history of Human Right abuses. In fact, China tends to have alliances with those who have a similar history of Human Right Abuse.www.theglobeandmail.com...
www.csr-asia.com...