Revelation's beast seems silly

Originally posted by Ketzer22
I really don't understand HOW.. if everything points to it.. people would be "fooled" by the beast. Seeing as this hasn't happened yet and everyone knows that the anti-christ/beast has to come before Christ. Why would anyone be fooled? Do these prophecies really think that people are unable to put 2 and 2 together? It just seems like a lot of hocus pocus to me, and while everyone recognizes the mark of the beast as a bad thing, I do not see people accepting it.. thoughts?

Remember that Christ said their will be many antichrists (matthew 24:5)
As for the beast mentioned in the Bible rest assured that it is an institution that has been with us for over 17 centuries and has slowly been conditioning man to routinely break the commandments of Christ whithin their lithurgy. Even the leaders of the reformation taught that the Pope was the Antichrist and the Catholic church is the beast which gives rise to the Final antichrist.

I wish this site had a forum where we could give the details of prophecy and church doctrine. However, to do this a lot of history would have to be thrown in.

The mark of the beast is the sunday sabbath. However, man today, just like men when Christ was born are too nieve too think that something this simple (like the King of Kings being born in a stable) could have such dramatic effect. Most people today do not realise that the catholic church declared sunday (the first day of the week) as the Sabbath, which contradicts God's law to separate their beliefs from the Jewish beliefs, among other things (like keeping their pagen worship days). So for hundreds of years Satan has been preparing mankind for the inevitable showdown. How easy is it going to be for Satan to deceive mankind with this, even after people are told!

People will not only accept it (mark of the beast), but they will die to defend it. Just like the crucifiction of Christ, and the inquisition, people will think they are doing God a favor. People have been conditioned for over 17 centuries to accept the mark of the beast, so it will seem natural to them. People just do not seem to understand that God designated the Sabbath to be from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday, and there is no scripture in the Old or New testaments that says that he changed the Sabbath to sunday!

I wish people would wake up and investigate this themselves instead of ridiculing and denying the inevitability of this, or worse yet just believe what someone tells them.

Originally posted by Ketzer22
I really don't understand HOW.. if everything points to it.. people would be "fooled" by the beast. Seeing as this hasn't happened yet and everyone knows that the anti-christ/beast has to come before Christ. Why would anyone be fooled? Do these prophecies really think that people are unable to put 2 and 2 together? It just seems like a lot of hocus pocus to me, and while everyone recognizes the mark of the beast as a bad thing, I do not see people accepting it.. thoughts?

Well let's see what the Word of Yahweh says regarding this beast matter:
(Rev 13:7-8) and it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. And....Rev 13:9 says, if anyone have an ear, let him hear! Now the Scripture goes further to talk about the image made and the mark etc..but for now let's use our ears and HEAR what Yahshua is saying.

The beast is nothing more than a man who uses lying signs and wonders and lying miracles to get people to worship him-by falling away from the One who truly deserves honour and worship, Yahweh. This beast speaks "great things and blasphemies" against Yahweh, he blasphemes Yahweh's NAME, and Yahweh's tabernacle, and them that DWELL (live) in Heaven. Do you know anyone who does this? I can think of several right now! If the shoe fits....then you're wearing it! (Not you of course) Think hard and be honest to yourself, who, if anyone, aims to pull or sway you away from believing that Yahweh Created the UNIVERSE and everything in it? Who debunks the Seven Day Creation? Who names the "planets" blasphemous names? Who numbers the years of the earth? Who has placed their 'symbol of rulership' on Yahwehs lesser light called the moon ? Who has mounted up to the heavens and has seated himself on high above the stars??? Any ideas?? Believe me when I tell you, Yahweh's word does not come back void. We are blessed to be living in Yahweh's Word and yet unfortunate enough to be witnessing such a dramatic display of Apostasy that has ever taken place in the history of man against THE Creator and His Son Yahweh Yahshua and you better believe, against His people. Who teaches your kids to come home and ask about "evolution"?

You think that you have to be jailed or stoned to be persecuted? Sticks and stones make break your bones but words, words can break your faith. That is a fact that we must come to terms with right now. Stop waiting for a beast to stand up and announce himself as 'the antichrist' , remember the serpent is cunning and sneaky, he can bite without ever being seen, until he's slithering away and you're wondering what just happened as the venom fills your veins and ultimately takes your breath away...

Yahweh, gave us eyes to see and ears to hear, but we sure aren't using them much anymore. The danger is that we no longer hear what Yahshua(The Word of Yahweh) is saying anymore because we are listening to the beast and looking at his false signs and wonders.

[edit on 28-1-2008 by Elisha4Yah]

I'm not religious but you have to take words out of context if your reading the bible. The revelation's speaks of a man who will hold a great office and will manipulate the minds of people to their dooms, saying that the ones who repent from this way of thinking will be saved. I honestly think the man to fool us will be largely religious and probably roman catholic, since christianity seems to be picking up more and more steam for whatever reason. People will see this man as the next Meshia when in fact he is the devil reincarnate, whether or not this man will know that he is the evil key who knows but more then likely it will be a man who can calm crowds of millions with his voice. It'll fool us if it hasn't already.

Originally posted by Ketzer22
I really don't understand HOW.. if everything points to it.. people would be "fooled" by the beast. Seeing as this hasn't happened yet and everyone knows that the anti-christ/beast has to come before Christ. Why would anyone be fooled? Do these prophecies really think that people are unable to put 2 and 2 together? It just seems like a lot of hocus pocus to me, and while everyone recognizes the mark of the beast as a bad thing, I do not see people accepting it.. thoughts?

First of all, it's important to know what *A* beast is in prophecy. It is often a nation or, in this case, a conglomeration of nations. So people woiuld be fooled as easily as we are fooled by our ruling government.

It's really not that difficult when you look at it from the perspective of the time period in which it was written, instead of from a 21st century concept. There is so much stuff that is interpreted today which was never even part of the interpretation a thousand years ago.

Originally posted by Lokey13
I'm not religious but you have to take words out of context if your reading the bible. The revelation's speaks of a man who will hold a great office and will manipulate the minds of people to their dooms, saying that the ones who repent from this way of thinking will be saved. I honestly think the man to fool us will be largely religious and probably roman catholic, since christianity seems to be picking up more and more steam for whatever reason. People will see this man as the next Meshia when in fact he is the devil reincarnate, whether or not this man will know that he is the evil key who knows but more then likely it will be a man who can calm crowds of millions with his voice. It'll fool us if it hasn't already.

There is nothing in revelation that speaks of a man holding a great office manipulating people to their doom. Geesh... how many times did you watch the Omen? 666?

this is my understanding from when I studied the book of revelations many years ago...

first, the rapture happens...
thats when jesus comes to earth and only the christians see him and are taken to heaven.

Then begins the 7 years of tribulation.
During that time, the first 3 and a half years are like a paradise on earth.
The antichrist rules (which assumes he would have already obtained a great deal of power and control before the rapture.)
This man/woman performs miracles etc, and many think that he is the real messiah...
So, when he puts the mark of the beast on someone, thats it, their sole is gone, taken from there body (even though the body still walks on earth) and is controlled my the antichrist.
But many people are tricked into having the mark of the beast (dont forget he cant force the mark on you, you have to be willing to have it) because everyone thinks he is the savior.

So, after the first half of the 7 years of tribulation, paradise on becomes a hell on earth, where the antichrist uses all those he put the mark on to hunt down everyone else that opposes him, and simply put, do his bidding.

Then comes the great appearance.
This is when everyone sees Jesus, not just the christians, and everyone is judged and taken to heaven.

Then, Satan summons his forces outside the gates of heaven and there is a great battle. Of course god wins, and summons satan to 1000 years in hell. (also dont forget that satan was never summoned to hell... he walks in between heaven and earth)

After satan is summoned to hell, God moves his kingdom onto earth. many think it floats over the earth. and after the 1000 years, God creates a new heaven and everyone gets new bodies...



SO, that is what I have learned about revelations. I do not necessarily believe it, as i would not call myself a christian, but it is fascinating.
Basically, people are tricked into having the mark of the beast because they think the antichrist is their savior.
Hope that helps, or at least provides an interesting read

reply to post by Ketzer22


I'm not toooo impressed with the Clinton/Commie News Network addicts' abilities to put 2 + 2 together.

IIRC, Ted Turner is on record as saying something to the effect that he'd like to be reincarnated as a plague to wipe out 90% of the world's population or some such . . .

A raft of other globalists are now exposed for all their evil plans in the film produced by the

WWW.ENDGAMETHEMOVIE.COM...

fellow.

And folks remain largely blithely clueless . . . mindlessly going along with the globalists' plans to destroy the planet's population down to 200-500 million . . . by force and various devious methods.

Scripture says the delusion will be soooo slick that IF it were possible even the "elect' would be deceived. Sounds like heavy demonic delusion as well as tons of counterfeit 'miraculous' demonstrations . . . a la the fallen angel/nephilium/watcher technologies and capacities.

Besides . . . millions of people addicted to TV have become about as smart as HOWDY DOODY . . . actually, that's an insult to Howdy Doody.

And none of the above takes into account the impressive mob and mind control technologies perfected over the last 50+ years.

Originally posted by BugZyZuncle

The mark of the beast is the sunday sabbath. However, man today, just like men when Christ was born are too nieve too think that something this simple (like the King of Kings being born in a stable) could have such dramatic effect. Most people today do not realise that the catholic church declared sunday (the first day of the week) as the Sabbath, which contradicts God's law to separate their beliefs from the Jewish beliefs, among other things (like keeping their pagen worship days).

wait a sec.
I'm not trying to contradict what your saying, but the Jewish sabbath is on friday night to saturday sunrise. Shabat Shalom.
so didnt the church separate their beliefs from the jewish beliefs by declaring sunday the sabbath, as it is sunday (the 7th day) that got rested... even though we all know that saturday would be the 7th day because sunday is the first of the week.
but either way, they are different.
let me know if im missing something please

Originally posted by Odessy
this is my understanding from when I studied the book of revelations many years ago...

first, the rapture happens...
thats when jesus comes to earth and only the christians see him and are taken to heaven.

That wasn't *your* understanding, that was an interpretation which is relatively new, which was fed to you. If you can't tell the difference between "your understanding" and what has been imprinted on you, then you have no chance at all of what Christians refer to as Salvation.

That was the key thing Jesus meant about dying to this world, dying to all of the false concepts which have been accepted and handed down to you.

i am a Christian, and, don't get me wrong, i think the bible is all true, but it was created by normal people, and normal people make mistakes and also leave many questions unanswered. most Christians think that when and if the rapture comes, all of God's people will be taken into heaven, but this is not in the Bible. It states that 2 men may be working in a field and one will be immediately taken to heaven. it says nothing about the religious views of either men. it is the same for any book in the bible. especially revelation. thus, it is basically impossible to know the facts about what exactly will happen in the end times until they actually occur. i am not saying it is pointless to try and figure it out, but i AM saying that it would not be worth your while to get into a debate about one opinion over another.

you can ask other people's views, but some will be Christian-biased, and others will be well thought, but may be totally different from each other. i will tell you now that you will not get an exactly accurate answer on this forum.

Originally posted by SwAngo
i am a Christian, and, don't get me wrong, i think the bible is all true, but it was created by normal people, and normal people make mistakes and also leave many questions unanswered. most Christians think that when and if the rapture comes, all of God's people will be taken into heaven, but this is not in the Bible. It states that 2 men may be working in a field and one will be immediately taken to heaven. it says nothing about the religious views of either men. it is the same for any book in the bible. especially revelation. thus, it is basically impossible to know the facts about what exactly will happen in the end times until they actually occur. i am not saying it is pointless to try and figure it out, but i AM saying that it would not be worth your while to get into a debate about one opinion over another.

you can ask other people's views, but some will be Christian-biased, and others will be well thought, but may be totally different from each other. i will tell you now that you will not get an exactly accurate answer on this forum.

Why do you people continue to believe that the rapture is some kind of actual doctrine? It was made up long after the reformation. Catholics don't have any doctrine of Rapture, nor to the Orhtodox, are they not Christians?

Geesh...

reply to post by Quazga


ummm... and how many times has the bible been translated?

if you listen to your pastors version of things, then that has been fed to you as well...

did I not post that that was only MY understanding of the matter?
I read revelations, and read a study on it...

and didnt i also post that i was not a christian?

so what else do we have besides our own understanding of things?

get off my back mate!

Originally posted by Ketzer22
I really don't understand HOW.. if everything points to it.. people would be "fooled" by the beast. Seeing as this hasn't happened yet and everyone knows that the anti-christ/beast has to come before Christ. Why would anyone be fooled? Do these prophecies really think that people are unable to put 2 and 2 together? It just seems like a lot of hocus pocus to me, and while everyone recognizes the mark of the beast as a bad thing, I do not see people accepting it.. thoughts?

The 'Beast' - 666 etc. - was simply a jewish code word for the Roman Emperor around the time of Roman occupied Israel. It was a death sentence to publicly denounce the Emperor at the time, hence the term 'The Beast'.

Many centuries of this misinterpretation (much of it intentional..) have led to this widely accepted fallacy that the term somehow relates to modern 'prophecy' - it doesn't of course. Any reputable biblical scholar will tell you this...

J.

reply to post by Elisha4Yah


Problem is of course is that this was most likely 'written' by some itinerant jewish or christian priest. Revelation is a work of fiction - historically proven to be so in fact. The research is out there, easy to locate. All you've got to do is actually WANT to know the truth.

J.

Going back to the original post (yes that old thing.....)

I'm a relatively new Christian so perhaps someone like Ashley can provide necessary scripture for my example here:

My wife and I have been reading through Exodus, and it's literally full of examples of the Nation of Israel whining to God and Moses, or worshiping false gods, then God will A.) Perform a miracle. or B.) Kill the people disobeying His commands. or C.) Punish the whole Nation of Israel for not trusting Him.

This relates to the original post in this way:

God would do one of the 3 things above, and you'd think that seeing a miracle or watching a dozen people struck dead instantly would clue you up to say "hey, wait a minute.... this guy is good...", but the Nation of Israel would forget about it in a matter of days, and go worshiping cows or other nations gods the moment they encountered any hardship.

I so would not put it past people to get caught up in the moment of something they think is cool and completely forget the Word of God.

reply to post by AshleyD


I'm new around here so I apologize for just jumping into this thread.

However, I wanted to point out while Revelation 13:18 actually says...

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six."

Source

...there are some very important biblical scholars who are coming to believe that the Revelator, John of Patmos, didn't actually see the number "666"...what he saw might have been symbols that he could only record in Greek as what would come be interpreted as "666."

The actually Greek letters that John of Patmos recorded in his vision were "chi xi stigma" (stigma being an obsolete but well known Greek language character).

Here is what "chi xi stigma" look like in the Greek of John's time...


To bring this to a conclusion (and I'm not saying I concur in this point of view), when the ex-terrorist, Walid Shoebat, was shown the "chi xi stigma" in Greek, he turned it on its side and said "that's the bismissah" (the bismillah is the islamic saying "there is no god but allah and mohammed is his prophet).

"Here is the Arabic for "Allah":




Here is the link to the video. The actually point of interest occurs about 12 minutes into the interview.




I am not saying that the actual identifier of the beast is the name of allah, I am simply offering this for your consideration.

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Dark Skies]

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Dark Skies]

Prephecies are like riddles. We could either take them literally, or analyze what it could possibly mean. Even so, not "everyone" can pick apart and find its meaning. It takes a person whose a) religious or b) a scholar of sorts.

Which leads me to say that finding the "beast" is not as easy as cutting out a piece of cake.

reply to post by xDove007


He was 'found' thousands of years ago 'The Beast' simply refers to the Roman Emperor. Any credible biblical scholar will tell you this.

J.

[edit on 29-1-2008 by jimbo999]

Originally posted by jimbo999
reply to post by xDove007

 

He was 'found' thousands of years ago

'The Beast' simply refers to the Roman Emperor. Any credible biblical scholar will tell you this.

J.

[edit on 29-1-2008 by jimbo999]

Not in the operative verse here. It is a man (the word used is "therion" for beast and "anthropos" for man in Greek)...

Rev 13:18 "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a MAN; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six."

This implies the "antichrist" who may certainly lead a country or an organization or an army...but the antichrist is a single individual.

If you know of some "credible biblical scholars" who believe as you say, perhaps you can provide names.

I refer you to Chuck Missler,
HERE

Thx.



[edit on 29-1-2008 by Dark Skies]

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Dark Skies]

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Dark Skies]

The beast is the internalized animalistic tendencies within a man of mankind that makes their biases lean over to the side of unrightiousness.

The Beast is that within a man of mankind that makes them put their own will ahead of the creator's will.

It's the animalistic tenedencies of the evolutionary creature unwilling to escape the beast that blinds people into thinking wrong and not being able to see clearly the truth and the light.

It's out of this that the symbolic beast creature with the 7 heads rises up.