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Russia issues warning to U.S. & EU over Kosovo independence

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posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by LwSiX
Serbia is recalling their US ambassador, tip of the ice berg im sure...

news.bbc.co.uk...


Yes. I now wonder if Russia will dispatch troops to Serbia to march in and take the province of Kosovo.

Plan B would seem to be Russia sending troops to Serbia (saying Fine. Kosova can be independent) and then using the Russian and Serbian troops to take the Serbian part of Bosnia after that Bosnian 'Serbian Republic' declares its independence from Bosnia...

I just see the Russian government using this opportunity to settle some scores and to reassert herself so that the Russian Motherland is once again feared by nations and people.

In any event, I suspect it will get much worse whilst George W. Bush is President of the USA and Dick Cheney is Vice-President.




posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by maloy
 


HA!!! You are really out there with your hate for the US aren't you?

Tell me, who fought against the Ottomans and the Nazis? Now as for the genocide, you seem to want to ignore that it was serbs killing everyone not serbian in the 90's. Or did you forget all those mass graves that were found?

As for the rest of your strawman arguments, I brush those aside because they are not relavant and are just your way of trying to deflect away from the crux of the matter. And that is the serbians are butchers who should leave the rest of the people in the region alone. As for the russians, they will talk and talk, but when it comes down to it they will do nothing as they always do. Hell they are on one helluva losing streak, Afghanistan where they got their asses kicked, losing the cold war, losing their republics after the breakup of their paper empire, fighting a losing war in Chechnya, now losing a political battle in Kosovo.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by US Monitor
 


I disagree. The US is the biggest terrorist organization in the world, and has been for some time now.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by pluckynoonez
 


Sure you keep thinking that even if it isn't true. But lets not let anything get in the way of your jealousy and hate of the US.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by US Monitor
 


Judging from pluckys signature i'd say he/she is American. With that being said, so am i and i happen to agree her/him. I love my country but our goverment is out of control and must be stopped.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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China is going to become more boisterous against this...This could potentially escalate into a mess for the entire planet...


Superpower divide over Kosovo widens

BRUSSELS, Belgium - The U.S. and the European Union's biggest powers quickly recognized Kosovo as an independent nation Monday, widening a split with Russia, China and some EU members strongly opposed to letting the territory break away from Serbia.

Continued:
news.yahoo.com...;_ylt=Aq6OKBdyvAkpqkdNQedjXcex0NUE



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 04:01 PM
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i think were watching the start of a world war...russia and china are not going to let this happen .....



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by US Monitor
HA!!! You are really out there with your hate for the US aren't you?


Not really. I supported the invasion of Afganistan and various other U.S. actions. But the forceful separation of Serbia hits close to home, and feel the U.S. is way out of its league here.



Originally posted by US Monitor
Tell me, who fought against the Ottomans and the Nazis?


Russia was the primary power in fighting both, especially the Ottomans. UK and its allies pretty much stood behind the Ottoman empire since the Crimean War and untill its demise. Armenians, Kurds, Syrians, Bulgars, Serbs, and the Greek have also continuously warred with Ottoman empire.

As for Nazis - again it was Russia that carried the heaviest burden. 3/4 of Gernman troops, including nearly all of their elite divisions were destroyed/lost on the Western front. Russia reconquered 3 times as much territory as the rest of the allies did combined (and that includes Italy and North Africa).

So what's your point? Are you going to claim that it was US and not Russia that did those things?



Originally posted by US Monitor
Now as for the genocide, you seem to want to ignore that it was serbs killing everyone not serbian in the 90's.


And Albanians were killing everyone not Albanian. Again what's your point? There were a series of wars, and because of lack of discipline and hot-headed emotions, war crimes were committed by all sides - and I mean EVERY SIDE OF THE CONFLICT - EQUALLY. I see you are going pretty much by the Hague protocol - which is blame everyone who the U.S. tells you to blame - or in this case only Serbs. See - witch hunts were supposed to end a few centuries ago but they never did -shhhh don't tell anyone that.



Originally posted by US Monitor
Or did you forget all those mass graves that were found?


A dead person is a dead person. How do you tell apart a dead Serb from a dead Albanian, or a dead guerilla from a dead civilian - you don't. Who is to say that those "mass graves" weren't staged? When you got hundreds of bodies (combatants and not) in a civil conflict, it is too easy to stage mass graves. There has been plenty of evidence on this.

Again there were war crimes - but it is impossible to reach a conclusion who deserves the bigger portion of the blame. What is known, is that Albanians innitiated the conflict by targeting Serb policemen and civilians in Kosovo. Only after that did the Serb army intervene.



Originally posted by US Monitor
As for the rest of your strawman arguments, I brush those aside because they are not relavant and are just your way of trying to deflect away from the crux of the matter.


Right - what matters is that U.S./NATO violated the international law of territorial integrity, but because of their authority are able to get away with it.



Originally posted by US Monitor
And that is the serbians are butchers


So are the British, the Turks, the Americans, the Germans, the Russians, the Sudanese, the Spaniards, the Portugese, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Iraqis, the Iranians, the Italians, and about 100 other nationalities.

Are you going to tell me that Serbs are bigger butcherers than any of the above-mentioned people?

Seeing as how humans have always warred with each other, pretty much everyone is a butcherer. And those who let their government (*cough* U.S. *cough*) get away with butchering, are also butcherers.



Originally posted by US Monitor
who should leave the rest of the people in the region alone.


Fair. And U.S. should leave the people in the world alone. Untill that happens, it is kind of hypocritical to talk about non-intervention.

And "the region" you are talking about happens to be part of Serbia, and not some outside entity. Remember Kosovo is still not recognized as a nation by over 1/2 of the world.



Originally posted by US Monitor
As for the russians, they will talk and talk, but when it comes down to it they will do nothing as they always do.


That is true to an extent - for shame. But when Russia does finally get up to do something it is showered by the West with criticism that is trying to destroy democracy or some similar bull****.


Originally posted by US Monitor
Hell they are on one helluva losing streak, Afghanistan where they got their asses kicked


They left Afganistan because of the fall of USSR. 1 Russian casualty to 100 Afganis is hardly getting one's ass kicked.


Originally posted by US Monitor
losing the cold war


There were no losers in the Cold War, because no one got nuked. Other than that Russia temporarily resigned to pursue domestic interests during perestroika.


Originally posted by US Monitor
losing their republics after the breakup of their paper empire


Gorbachev made unilateral agreements with virtually all of separating entities, that the separation was just as good for Russia as it was for them. The breakup of USSR is one of few intances in history where an empire dissolved under common accord.


Originally posted by US Monitor
fighting a losing war in Chechnya


A "losing" war which they won.


Originally posted by US Monitor
now losing a political battle in Kosovo.


History will tell who is going to be effected by Kosovo independence implications and to what extent.

[edit on 18-2-2008 by maloy]



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by maloy
 


Oh yes revisionist history here. The US provided the turning point in the first World War enabling the Allies to win. Russia meanwhile began their Civil War and had little to do with the outcome, especially in Serbia.

As for WWII, again downplay the role of the US who just happened to be fighting 2 major wars at the same time, and winning them! Russia wouldn't have lasted if not for the US lend lease act. It was the US that provided the raw materials that desperate Russia needed to survive against Germany.

As for the Cold War, the USSR lost, they ended up being broken up and reduced to secondary status that they are desperately trying to overcome now with rhetoric and weak stances.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by US Monitor
 


Perhaps it is not so much revisionist history as simply history as taught in other countries.

The U.S. American telling of its own history portrays the U.S.A. as Superman.

Other people telling the same story do not see the U.S.A. in the same light although some might be willing to portray the U.S.A. as Mighty Mouse if for no other reason than to irritate U.S. Americans.

Then there are those who speak of the U.S.A. in these historic events as the nation that came late to the fight. Others point to the Pacific Theatre as a war that did not need to take place if F.D.R. had not permitted the bombing of Pearl Harbour and had not engaged in all manner of efforts to send the Imperial Japanese government into apoplexy.

Most nations whitewash their own history so as to portray themselves as heroes. It takes a brave nation like Australia or Canada to admit failures and wrongdoing in the treatment of Aboriginal and First Nations peoples. Some day I suspect more U.S. Americans will be willing to read their own history cognisant of the failures as well as successes and without a need to portray themselves as the hero who came to save the day.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by US Monitor
Oh yes revisionist history here. The US provided the turning point in the first World War enabling the Allies to win.


Wait - first you talked about who defeated Nazis and now you switch the topic to WWI. What does WWI have to do with Nazis or the Ottoman Empire?

I stated that Russia was the primary force that defeated the Nazis and fought the Ottoman Turks - and I stand by that fact.

WWI does not involve Nazis and I have not commented on it, or on Russia's role in it. Who is the revisionist here exactly and why?



Originally posted by US Monitor
As for WWII, again downplay the role of the US who just happened to be fighting 2 major wars at the same time, and winning them!


I see there is no point in arguing here.

But I will just suffice to say that you started talking about who defeated the Nazis - and given that Nazi Germany was in Europe, this does not concern what other wars US was fighting and with whom. Russia took on three fourths to four fifths of the Nazi Germany and their allies forces - that is a fact. Russia won the single most decisive battle in Europe in WWII - Stalingrad, whose implications alone were as great as those of Narmandy landings. Russia started pushing 3/4 to 4/5 of the Nazi forces back long before Normandy, and succeeded in doing so.

Arguing that U.S. did more to defeat Germany than Russia is like arguing that gravity does not exist.


Example:

Normandy Invasion (by far the major battle in Europe on the Western Front where the US was involved):

155,000 allied troops against 380,000 German troops (mostly allies of Germany)

Death toll: about 1,500 allies and 1,500 Nazis (plus about 5,000 captured).

- Major success as far as battles and tactics go, but look at Stalingrad:

Battle of Stalingrad (outcome was a decisive victory by Russia):

About 1,000,000 Nazi troops against 1,100,000 Soviet troops.

Casualties: about 750,000 (more than US total deathtoll in WWII) on each side. 110,000 Axis troops captured.

-How is that for a pespective on WWII in Europe?



Originally posted by US Monitor
Russia wouldn't have lasted if not for the US lend lease act.


And your arguements wouldn't have lasted if you have read some history books. Do you even know what Operation Barbarrossa was, the amount of manpower involved, and the ensuing battles in Moscow, Stalingrad, and Kursk. Each of those battles exceeded in scale and implications the entire D-Day and Normandy invasion. That's facts talking, not opinions.

Lend lease act have minor-to-moderate implications for the first year of the war. After that its importance declined substantially.



Originally posted by US Monitor
It was the US that provided the raw materials that desperate Russia needed to survive against Germany.


US provided about 5 to 10% of what Russia needed - the rest was quickly secured by Russia by transfering all industrial production East of the Urals.

Manpower was the primary factor. The manpower that US had in Europe at the peak of Narmandy invasion, is less that Russia and Germany each had just in the battle of Stalingrad. Think about that.

Again I shouldn't even waste my time.


Originally posted by US Monitor
As for the Cold War, the USSR lost, they ended up being broken up and reduced to secondary status that they are desperately trying to overcome now with rhetoric and weak stances.


Again - USSR was broken up under a common internal agreement for mutual benefit, after Gorbachev and several other Soviet Republic's leaders displaced the hardline communists from power. Cold War contributed to this break-up, but it was the manifestation of internal problems in the Communist Party that ultimately caused the break up. There are theories that Cold War acctually helped prolong the Communist regime.

And US role is vastly overestimated as causing the break-up, since US itself was very surprised with Gorbachev's reforms. US and NATO discovered that they had a very misleading opinion about the Communist Party and what was behind it.

You are speaking from the point of view of high school history books, which present the information in the way in which it is easiest to digest. There is much much more to Operation Barbarossa, Soviet Union, and Gorbachev than you imagine. I have spend many years of my college career in politics and economics learning about all of them, and I still can't begin to comprehend all the details.


[edit on 18-2-2008 by maloy]



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by US Monitor
reply to post by maloy
 


Oh yes revisionist history here. The US provided the turning point in the first World War enabling the Allies to win. Russia meanwhile began their Civil War and had little to do with the outcome, especially in Serbia.

As for WWII, again downplay the role of the US who just happened to be fighting 2 major wars at the same time, and winning them! Russia wouldn't have lasted if not for the US lend lease act. It was the US that provided the raw materials that desperate Russia needed to survive against Germany.

As for the Cold War, the USSR lost, they ended up being broken up and reduced to secondary status that they are desperately trying to overcome now with rhetoric and weak stances.



wow, you are quite not clever, but you do need to learn history. 75% of Nazis were engaged with SOViETS while America came at the end of the WWII when Nazis were busy with Soviets. When Nazis started being pushed back to Germany, the US feared that Soviet will get to Berlin fastest, so ONLY then US decided to do something about it, therefore US sent little army of 200,000 which is nothing comparing to Soviet Army at that time engaging the Nazis. US did nothing to NAZIS, they were barely touched. Look up the landings in Italy by American forces, all of them died, they couldn't do anythign against Nazis, they were exterminated. As soon as US declared war on Nazi Germany, US lost over 600 ships in the Atlanic Ocean, in the 1st MONTH!
So don't tell me Americans won WWII, because u didn't. You fought Japanese and supplied Brits and Soviets with some equipment, that's about it. Most of the war was fought by Soviets , Brits and other European nations.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 11:11 PM
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I knew I shouldn't have made my last post - this talk about who did what in WWII completely derails the topic. I will cease commenting about WWII as it has no relevent implications for the current events in Serbia and Kosovo.

In looking at current situation in Kosovo it is irregardless of what US did in WWII. The lesser informed of us may see the U.S. as an equivalent of God's angel who won the war with mere assistance from everyone else. Whatever. Some people will always believe in fairy tales.

But even if US was the good guy in some other conflict, it in no way justifies what it is doing now. And what it is doing now in Kosovo is outright reckless in regards to international politics around the world. And Russia is in this only in so far as to provide a basis for support for Kosovo in the UN and negotiate on Serbia's behalf - since Serbia is not on the Security Council and is not able to stand up for itself there.

There is no need to denounce Russia's weakness and past "defeats" as US Monitor has done, to prove a point about Serbia. This is not about Russia, as Russia will find ways to stand up for itself. The whole arguement on Kosovo is about a small country that is being forcefully and illegaly cut apart while the entire world watches and doesn't do anything. US must and will be held responsible for this when things go from bad to worse.

That said I am disappointed that Russia didn't interefere in any way, and that Serbian government largely stayed low these past few days. Now it is all going to be EU/UN politics, which no doubt will get deadlocked.

[edit on 18-2-2008 by maloy]



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 01:17 AM
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I would be very surprised if Russia doesnt send their aircraft carriers and some ships into the region and some troops into Serbia "just in case".

Also, once all avenues of negotiation and arguement at the UN are exhausted, the last move before confrontation will surely be the stopping of energy supplies from Russia to those nations that supported this action.

The UN and EU have lost all credibility now all around the world and their decisions and opinions dont mean anything anymore.....they might aswell dissolve their organisation now.

as for the US, I really do like the US, I like 'most' of their culture and I like their people, but what their government does internationally should be condemed and eventually they will get their asses kicked which will give them a wake up call.

Their actions are in conjuction with their president....get a dumb president and you get dumb decisions. If this Presaident Bush is the best that the USA can conjure, then there really isnt much hope for their future is there?

Bring on the next election because it seems at least 2 candidates have half a brain this time round.

Those of you saying that this wont get bigger are either ignorant or uneducated or both.

Unless you have experienced living in the former Yugoslavia or understand their history and culture you will know that they are a firecely patriotic people and very determined. They will not let this slide, they will fight this all the way. Dont think that because the US bombed them back in the late 90's that they were shut up, they didnt even turn their anti-aircraft guns on, they didnt even fight back, and what, you thought you kicked their backsides?

c'mon, watch them get angry and you'll be surprised. they may be small in size but they are pretty strong. They'd give the US more of a fight than Iraq ever did.



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 03:13 AM
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Yesterday, another McDonald's restaurant was demolished in Belgrade.


Slovenian Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced that Slovenian citizens don't go in Serbia further.

Government and Parliament of Republic of Srpska are under heavy pressure to hold referendum for secession from Bosnia!
Protests in Banja Luka - students burned flags of Bosnia and EU, French and German Embassy were attacked:

I watched several representatives of Parliament of Srpska and they said how to explain people that Kosovo can be independent and Srpska can't.


Afghanistan 1st recognized Kosovo UDI. 2nd was USA.


I watched last evening UN Security Council's session as our public service (RTS) broadcasted it.
It’s good to see that many UN Security Council members are against UDI of Kosovo. Two Muslim states, Indonesia and Libya are against it. I was surprised that Viet Nam opposes, too.
UK foreign minister was the most cynical. He said that Serbia has to pay for crimes of Milosevic but EU has strong will that Serbia become EU member.

Now, let see hypocrisy of West:

Charges facing Saddam Hussein

Anfal 'ethnic cleansing' campaign against Kurds, 1988

Between February and September 1988 Saddam Hussein ordered a massive displacement operation, known as the Anfal (Arabic for "spoils") campaign, against the Kurdish population in northern Iraq.

Victims of the Halabja attack, 1988
Halabja was attacked with chemical bombs
The operation was orchestrated by Saddam Hussein's cousin, General Ali Hassan al-Majid.

Hundreds of villages were depopulated and razed to the ground. Chemical weapons were also used.

Eyewitness accounts, documents seized from Iraqi security organs during the post-1991 Gulf War uprising and information gathered by international human rights groups indicate that up to 182,000 people were killed.

Gassing Kurds in Halabja in 1988

In August 1988, during the Anfal campaign, Iraqi forces attacked the Kurdish town of Halabja with bombs containing a mixture of mustard and nerve gases.

An estimated 5,000 civilians, including women, children and babies, were killed in a single day.

Gen Majid ordered the attack, earning the notorious epithet Chemical Ali.

Crushing the Kurdish and Shia rebellions after the 1991 Gulf War

After the first Gulf War, Saddam Hussein took revenge on the northern Kurds and Shia Muslims in southern Iraq, who rose up against the regime.

The Iraqi army suppressed the uprisings using massive military force and drained the southern marsh lands which had sustained a way of life dating back around 5,000 years.

Their habitat destroyed, many of the indigenous Arabs fled to surrounding countries.

Massacre of members of the Kurdish Barzani tribe in 1983

In July 1983, Iraqi security forces arrested about 8,000 male members of the Barzani clan in the northern province of Arbil. They were transported to southern Iraq and have not been heard of since.

-----

So, the crimes of the late Yugoslavian president Slobodan Milosevic were undoubtedly terrible, but they were not unique: the crimes of Saddam Hussein, for example, did not affect Iraq's right to continue to claim sovereignty in Kurdistan.

Come on West, why Kurds doesn’t have right to own state?! Why?! Saddam Hussein committed much worse crimes against Kurds, he used chemical weapons and nobody says Kurds should have state in northern Iraq.

HIPOCRISY large as Universe!!!




posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 03:52 AM
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Serbia started to call back ambassadors from countries which recognized Kosovo UDI.

Kosovo has every needed material to become new Palestine:
1. Unemployment over 50%.
2. 50% of population is young below 16 years.
3. There is no economy as 90% of goods are imported, mainly from Serbia.
4. Every young Albanian dream to fly on West and escape from misery.
5. Kosovo has huge lack of energy. Albanians can’t even produce enough power so they live under regular power restrictions.

Did anybody see new flag of Kosovo?! Almost the same patern [colors are the same actually] is used like for flag of Bosnia. And both flags are created by international community.



Originally posted by Sky watcher
Well they are going to do it. The Serbs say they will not attack but that they will cut them off completely.

www.cnn.com...

Serbia won’t blockade Kosovo as we earn a lot from selling goods to Albanians
. Better we sell and huge ear than somebody else. Just like Israel and Palestine.


Originally posted by maloy
The Serbs have shown willingness to abandon their old regime and to embrace a new era. Yet Kosovo Albanians are still supporting the scum and the thugs who brought about this whole mess in the first place. Why is it that Kosovo Albanians have shown no willingness to make cooperative agreements in all talks between the two sides? Why is the U.S. still supporting the terrorist-backed separatists who have more blood on their hands than Milosevic and all his generals combined? Seriously - what the hell does the U.S./NATO want out of this deal. It's certainly not an agreement that would satisfy the majority in the long run.

Serbs have put their trust in EU in this election - despite the fact that EU let them down numerous times. Now it is up to EU and its members to stand up for international law and for Serbia's right to territorial integrity. A failure to this and continued isolation of Serbia, will worsen how EU is seen in many countries, and will bring radicals to the top of Serbian politics.

Today it's Serbia being cut apart by a certain powers that be, for secessionist causes, while others stand by and watch. Who is it going to be tomorrow? I can think of quite a few countries, some even in Europe. This bull**** must stop and it must stop now - it will not reconcile any differences, but only bring about more antagonism and aggression.

President Tadic and Government’s ministers from his Democratic Party (they hold half of Government) don’t talk any more about EU after Kosovo UDI.


Originally posted by maloy
Maybe Serbia should "accidentaly" bomb the U.S. embassy, just like U.S. "accidentaly" bombed the Chinese embassy in 1999.

That would be state terrorism and won’t solve anything except bad picture of Serbia in mass media.


Originally posted by maloy
Seriously though - it is a pity that the Serb rioters have to resort to attacking various foreigners in their fury - Portugal and Brazil do not plan to recognize Kosovo independence anytime soon. But I understand the anger, and if I was a Serb I don't rule out being one of the rioters on those streets - this separation hits close to heart for a lot of people.

They thought it is property of US Embassy because was near. Later in morning it was announced who were real owners
.


Originally posted by maloy
And EU outright betrayed the Serbs and their new pro-EU President, who was elected on the belief that EU would somehow deter this separation. I wouldn't be surprised if Serbia turns back to Russia for help now, seeing how the EU has shown that it is worth no more than a sack of moldy potatoes.

As I said, EU is now negatively viewed and nobody talks about any agreement with EU at least in next several months.


Originally posted by maloy
en.wikipedia.org...

Libya last night said they won’t recognize Kosovo UDI and that is not put. Indonesia won’t too as they opposed it whole time and that is not put, too.


Originally posted by maloy
Most of the undecided countries appear to be waiting for official decision by the European Union and the UN Security Council. EU will likely push # bull**** through, but I am sure Russia and China will prevent recognition by the UN.

Russia clearly said it will veto any try of recognition of Kosovo in UN I think billion times
. You saw last evening Russia called UN SC session and allowed our President to express Serbian stand.
If Russia wouldn’t blockade I don’t know who would look more stupid: we or Russians.



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 03:55 AM
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I think now there is more chance of having independant:

- Kurdistan

- Taiwan

- North Ossetia

- Basque (Northern Spain)

- and many similar cases like Kosovo.

Fragmentation of Nations has begun.



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 05:57 AM
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First. Albanians are the only nation in the world that have not one but two ethnicaly pure countries. Congratulations.

Second. I hope Serbs will quickly accept the new reality and calm themselves down. Kosovo Albanians actually made them a huge favour. Who on earth would want to have the poorest and underdeveloped country/province in Europe? To call Kosovo a third world country is an insult to thirld world countries. It's about time Serbia lost some dead weight.

Third. Kosovo is becoming a sovereign and independant country. The real problems for them are just starting. Without the common enemy (Serbs), they can (and probably will) quickly return to their family/tribal disputes. The future will be very interesting.

Fourth. There are lots of talking that Kosovo and Albania will be united in some time in the future. That is quite unreal since Albanians (in Albania) do not like Kosovars. They think of them as lesser Albanians (and have quite a few colourfull names for Kosovars).

Fifth. The security of the region is quite worying. I was talking the other day with one of my friends who knows quite a few Albanians in my country and he congratulated one of them for independence. The reply he received was "Our time has not come yet". The guy who made this statement is an Albanian from Macedonia.



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 06:37 AM
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reply to post by Melbourne_Militia
 


Yeah ships like the one Greece just had to save and tow back to port. Maloy while I will say that you are arguing your point honestly, You know American did allot more in WWII that you are giving us credit for. We had 8 million in the fight. Nothing was successful by the allies until our generals took the lead. I can list all of the battles we won later if you wish.


sty

posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 06:59 AM
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as far as I know both World Wars are originated in the Balcans. The situation is very complicated at the moment as NATO/EU recognises the independence of Kosovo , however Russia and several other Eastern European nations do not agree. Romania is also worried as an Independent Kosovo would provide more ground for hungarian populations to claim their own country right in the middle of Romania - area very tensioned on this ground. My 2 cents: Russia will invade Kosovo. If NATO stand against this , we will see WW3 . Winners: Iran , China



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