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Russia issues warning to U.S. & EU over Kosovo independence

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posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 11:26 AM
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Russia issues warning to U.S. & EU over Kosovo independence


www.reuters.com

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia warned the United States and European Union on Monday that it would take a series of unidentified measures if Serbia's breakaway province of Kosovo unilaterally declared independence.

Russia's Kosovo negotiator, Alexander Botsan-Kharchenko, declined to give any details about the steps, but said a recognition of Kosovo's independence by the West would lead to a humanitarian catastrophe in the province.

When asked if Russia had a plan of action if Kosovo declared independence, he said: "Yes, Russia's Foreign Ministry has prepared a whole host of steps and measures. These measures fully accord to our position on independence for Kosovo."

The leaders of Kosovo's ethnic Albanian majority, who make up 90 percent of the breakaway province's 2 million people, say they are within weeks of declaring independence from Serbia.

The United States and major European Union powers are expected to recognize the move despite opposition from Belgrade and Russia, Serbia's main big power ally.

Russia has been trying to show its clout on the world stage by playing a tough diplomatic game against the U.S. and EU over Kosovo, using its huge energy clout and seat at the United Nations Security Council to hinder independence.

Russian officials say independence for Kosovo would destabilize the Balkans and fuel separatism all over Europe and the Former Soviet Union, including in breakaway regions Moscow supports in the Caucasus.

"Independence for Kosovo would lead to a division of the province, the isolation of its Serbian area," Botsan-Kharchenko said.

"The result of unilateral recognition of independence could be a situation close to a humanitarian catastrophe," he said, adding that Serb refugees would flow into northern Kosovo and Serbia.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 11:26 AM
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There sure seems to be some tension going on between us and the Russians as of late. Hopefully this is just rhetoric and nothing further comes of it.

www.reuters.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 11:35 AM
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Now, the Russians are right.

Kosovo independence could resort into a bloodbath. And its true, it would spark separatism across Europe and the former Soviet States, which isn't good for no one.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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It is a very volitle sutiation. Im sure there are still really deep seated hostilities remaining from the Yugoslavian war, and the unilateral persecution of Serbia by western powers.

Sad state of affairs, especially if this area erupts into violence again. From the contamination of one of Europes biggest fresh water underground springs, to the almost detrimental destruction of the rocket fuel stores (toxifying the area's around it) and chlorine (I think it was chlorine) manufaturing plants (using Bhopal technology) Much of the infastructure is already in ruins, I dont know how much more punishment the region can take, not to mention the people.

Edit to add: Here are a few of my favorite readings on the Yugoslavian conflict.

Notes from the other sideThe demonization of Slobodan MilosevicRational Destruction of Yugoslavia

[edit on 28-1-2008 by InSpiteOf]

[edit on 28-1-2008 by InSpiteOf]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 11:55 AM
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If anybody thinks that Russia won't react he doesn't understand whole situation. Russia is deeply against it. Iran is peace of cake. This is very serious.

Russia's Warning to Kosovo Leaders


Thursday, Jan. 17, 2008
(UNITED NATIONS) — Russia warned Kosovo's leaders Wednesday that if they declare independence the territory will never become a member of the United Nations or other international political institutions.

He made clear that Russia, which has veto power in the Security Council, would block any attempt by an independent Kosovo to become a member of the United Nations.

"Going down the way of unilateral moves, Kosovo is not going to join the ranks of fully recognized members of the international community," he said. "It may get some recognitions, regrettably ... but it's not going to come to this building as full-fledged member of the international community. It's not going to be able to join other political international institutions."

Albanians can get rogue state and then what? They can't be member of any international organization and they can't get money from IMF or World Bank. Further, if EU wants to finance rogue state, just do it. There is no economy in Kosovo, unemployment is over 50%, and majority of people is hardly educated. Kosovo needs several billions of Euros each year, but is EU ready to pump so much money into country ruled by former terrorists and criminals? The only economy which works in Kosovo is organized crime.
And Albanians ‘allies’ Americans dropped over 10 tones of depleted uranium into Kosovo in area with 100% population of Albanians. Decontamination was NEVER done. You really don’t want to live down there.
And again, Kosovo can't get real (full) independence, just partial.

reply to post by infinite
 

Finally to agree with you about something.



[edit on 28-1-2008 by Vojvoda]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 11:57 AM
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On what grounds are Russia so against any declaration of independance?

I understand that Russia are beginning to flex their muscles a bit and relations are deteriorating by the week but why are they so determined to oppose Kosovan independance?

Are they just using this as an opportunity to exret or re-affirm their influnence or have they got legitimate, valid reasons to intefere in the affairs of other independant, soveriegn states?



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
On what grounds are Russia so against any declaration of independance?

I understand that Russia are beginning to flex their muscles a bit and relations are deteriorating by the week but why are they so determined to oppose Kosovan independance?

Are they just using this as an opportunity to exret or re-affirm their influnence or have they got legitimate, valid reasons to intefere in the affairs of other independant, soveriegn states?

Province can't get independence by international law. Kosovo is province of Serbia, not republic of former Yugoslavia like was Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro and FYROM. That's the problem. And province only can get independence if mother country agrees. And Serbia will never accept Kosovo independence.
So if Kosovo become independent without Serbia agrees it will become precedence for any province in world which wants to separate from mother country [common law]. That would cause disaster.


[edit on 28-1-2008 by Vojvoda]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by Vojvoda
 


So why won't Serbia allow Kosovan independance?
Is there no such thing as "the right to self-determination"?
The majority of people in the Kosovo province wish independance, why can't they have it?

I understand that I may seem quite naive here, I just want to fully understand both views.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


Your going to have to do a lot of reading then. This is an old conflict that has a lot to do with land claims (who was there first), harsh feelings before and after the war, attacks on citizenry from both sides, and downright nasty feelings for eachother.

More importantly, you should ask, why does Kosovo want independance?



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
So why won't Serbia allow Kosovan independance?
Is there no such thing as "the right to self-determination"?
The majority of people in the Kosovo province wish independance, why can't they have it?

Kosovo can't as I said it is and was province of Serbia. Kosovo wasn't Republic of Socialist Federative Republic Yugoslavia. Only republics by Constitution from 1974 had right to self-determination. The same is in the whole world. Even in USA states can’t separate from federation.


Originally posted by Freeborn
I understand that I may seem quite naive here, I just want to fully understand both views.

Kosovo and Metohija is full name of province. For (many) reasons, everybody forget Metohija; Albanians don’t like that word, as Metohija means “monastery lands”, plus Kosovo means nothing in Albanian – it is Serbian word which means “land of black bird”. Majority of land before WW2 was owned by Church and Serbs.
- Serbian medieval state was formed there. It is Serbian soul.
- Whole cultural legacy is there – monasteries and churches from medieval. Even Ottomans didn’t destroy those monasteries, but Albanians from 1999 when NATO came; they destroyed and burned over 150 medieval churches and monasteries.
- Albanians only want ethnic clear land. They didn’t expelled just Serbs (not all, still); they expelled Roma, Turks, and Moslems, too. Croats runwaway from them in Croatia. Nobody likes them, like they feel the same to others.
- Kosovo is currently real heroin republic. Only economy in Kosovo is conducted by Albanian mafia. Every Albanian who oppose to mafia is killed. Centre for heroin’s distribution in Europe is in Kosovo.
- There are mines (silver, Zink and lead) in Kosovo which tried to acquire illegally some US companies. Not to mention vast resources of coal.

Peace.


[edit on 28-1-2008 by Vojvoda]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by Vojvoda
 


In fact from what I remember, I believe it was in 1997, Interpol released a report stating that Kosovo Albanians held the largest share in the herion market in much of Europe.

KLA finance war effort with herion sales

A world safe for Keptocracy



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by Vojvoda
 


So, its predominantly Albanian population.
Do they want to unite with Albania or become an independant country?
I can certainly understand the resistance to Kosovo uniting with Albania and that could well be the next logical step after independance.

I also understand the reluctance to give up one's cultural heritage, however, we are where we are, and at present the vast majority of the population are NOT Serbian and they wish independance.
What moral right has anyone got to deny them their wishes?

At present it seems a pretty horific place to live by your description of it.
Why does Serbia want it then?
Let them govern themselves and deal with all the problems they seem to have.
It could be a relief to Serbia and allow Serbia to continue growing and developing without having the handicap of governing such a lawless area.

Oh I forgot, the little footnote at the end of your last post.
Vast quantities of mineral wealth.

I suspect that this maybe the main driver of policy, on both sides, and the wishes and well being of both everyday Kosovan and Serbian people is the least consideration when the battle lines are being drawn up.

I fear that hidden agendas will be wrapt up in national flags which will result in further war and strife in the region to the detriment of the majority.

RnR.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 02:02 PM
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I wonder how "commited" to this independence our leaders are? I'm hoping not enough to send troops there...



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


They (The Clinton Administration) were committed enough to send troops through NATO to Yugoslavia in the 90's, I dont see what would stop them in this instance....



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by InSpiteOf
 


It is the self same business concerns that continue to determine American, and it's allies, foreign policy so I fail to see how the response will be any different.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


Precisely.

Although I agree very strongly with Michael Parenti (the author of the the first three links i posted) That Yugoslavia wasnt soley about business interests and investment, it had more to do with crushing an opposing social order and economy.

Read the articles, they're very informative and can be applied to a large number of US interventions/proxy wars.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 11:31 PM
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Many so called "humanitarians" keep bringing up this concept of self-determination. Well there is another concept in world politics - it is called Territorial Integrity". No nation or international organization has the right to divide up another nation or readminister its borders, unless the vast majority of people of that nation support separation, or unless the nation being separated has invaded another sovereignty.

Kosovo is part of Serbia, and it applies to Serbia's right of territorial integrity. Kosovo is not just some "outskirts" of Serbia, but it is the historical heartland, where Serbs have fought against the occupying Turks for centuries. Turkish occupation and Nazi occupation, and prosecution of Serbs by both, are the only reasons why Albanians are now the majority there. The only reason why Kosovo was given some level of autonomy during Tito's rule, was to give Albanians a sense of belonging in the greater Yugoslavia. But granting of autonomy should in no way be a precedent for granting of independence. Kosovo has no legal right or precedent to demand independence. The fact that some ethnicity makes up a majority of some province, is not justification for any separation.


And concerning the whole ethnic cleansing and genocide bull**** - this is just an example of propaganda at its finest. Albanians started the violence in the 90's. In my opinion Tito should have never given partial autonomy to Kosovo, because in the case with degenerate-minded separatists, if you give the dog a bone it will bite your hand off. Albanians were the ones who innitiated ethnic cleansing, as Serbian power and defense in the province was minimal. When this started to escalate, Milosevic rightly decided to intervene.

The only reason why Serbs did what they did, is because that is what they had to do if they were to keep Kosovo and to protect the Serbian population of Kosovo. Serbs were faced with a well-funded guerilla force and insurgency, which used every dirty tactic in the book, including terrorism. Russia faced the same problem in Chechnya, but no one dared bomb Russia. What Serbs did in Kosovo was in now way NATO's business, and was an internal conflict.

Just as every nation is entitled to territorial integrity, every nation is entitled to protect that integrity and to protect its citizens. What happened in Kosovoin 1997-1999 was internal affairs, where Serbia was forced to put down an uprising by a terrorist (in fact U.S. itself classified KLA as terrorists back in 1997) organization to protect itself and its citizens. Nobody, and I mean nobody had a legal right under any international law to prevent Serbia from doing what it was doing. In fact NATO violated its own provisions when it embarked on the bombing campaign in 1999. Talk about and unfounded and illegal wars... Too bad Milosevic never got to question Clinton under a subpoena in the Hague. Some people now believe that Kosovo might have been nothing more than Clinton trying to get some attention away from his "stained" reputation in Washington, involving some lady named Monica.



So to anyone that says Kosovo Albanians deserve independence - you might as well be an anarchist. If this is what we are going to go by - anyone who has any grievances against the body of government under whose jurisdiction they reside may declare independence - then every town in the world deserves to be its own nation. Then we would have not dozens of hostile nations arguing with everyone as we do now, but hundreds. There has to be a line drawn somewhere, or we will just keep cutting up nations. This does not solve any problems, but only creates new and bigger ones.



And somewhat aside from the topic, the fact that Turkey today is trying to exert some influence on this issue and on Albanians today, is disgusting. Turkey and the Ottoman empire can be directly blamed for all of the conflicts in the Balkans as well as the Caucasus.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
Do they want to unite with Albania or become an independant country?


In theory they want to be an independent country, but in practice it is known that many want to be part of Albania (read about Greater Albania). Few doubt that in a short while after independence is declared, major politicians in Kosovo will start calling for unification with Albania.


Originally posted by Freeborn
I also understand the reluctance to give up one's cultural heritage, however, we are where we are, and at present the vast majority of the population are NOT Serbian and they wish independance.
What moral right has anyone got to deny them their wishes?


The internationally recognized right of territorial integrity - that is the right that Serbia has to deny Albanians their wishes. If I lived in a U.S. county that is predominantly populated by Irish or Mexicans who want want independence does that mean that U.S. should grant that county independence? Ethnical majorities are everywhere, towns, counties, states, provinces. Some countries, like Russia and China, have over 100 ethnicities, which make up a majority in some small province or region. So what are we to do, when a ten thousand ethnicities aound the world start demanding independence for whatever reason? Nations were created for a reason, and continual disintegration and separation will lead to anarchy.



Originally posted by Freeborn
Let them govern themselves and deal with all the problems they seem to have.


And tomorrow Albanian in another part of Serbia, like Presevo will want independence, inspired by Kosovo. Once you give one portion independence, what legaly prevents another similar portion from having independence? Serbia lost a lot of land as the result of disintegration of Yugoslavia as it is, such as Republica Srpska. Kosovo is just too much.



Originally posted by Freeborn
It could be a relief to Serbia and allow Serbia to continue growing and developing without having the handicap of governing such a lawless area.


Serbia has already offered Kosovo full autonomy within Serbia, where Kosovo governs itself except for having no international relations and no army. The issue is, that Serbia wants to insure protection for the Serb ciztizens living in Kosovo, and Albanians have continued to behave violantly towards them. KFOR can't guarantee safety for these Serbs, and the only way safety can be guaranteed is if Serbia has military control in at least the Serbian portions of the province.

Milosevic and the Serbian generals who supposedly committed attrocities in Kosovo in the 90's are long gone. However the Albanian thugs and terrorists who ran KLA, are still there for the most part. Can they be trusted to run a country where anger and emotions still run high?



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 12:30 AM
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Kosovo war. Wow! I hope there are some people in America who even remember it. I, for one, remember it. I was working second shift, so I had the opportunity to watch the little press conferences that the military would hold every morning. I remember especialy one, when the press was asking the general why they were targeting some place in particular. His face turned red and he became very angry. He said. "We have the right to bomb anything that we want to!". Oh, really? What, exactly gave them the right to bomb Serbia? I guess it was the same thing that gave them the "right" to bomb the Iraqi army, after they invaded Kuwait. I am sorry that we seem to have a country run by criminals. I think it would be nice if we had an opportunity for the people to hold a referendom to decide if we should recognize Kosovo, instead of following the dictates of the Arabs, who are paying off our polititians.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 01:41 AM
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Hi/

Here are some Posts in ATS that would be of great interest ans informative as to what is going on today/(some are a couple/few years old) some may be in Prophecy...don't let that fool you.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...&addstar=1&on=3716007#pid3716007

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And an article of interest.(may already have been posted in another post)


Rewarding terrorism, deception in Kosovo
.......Goran Stojcik, a Macedonian ambulance driver who worked in the refugee camps during the war, testified under oath at the Hague Tribunal that he had eye-witnessed Western news crews stage-managing fake news footage in the refugee camps.
He said, "CNN was the most prominent in stage managing things that were to be filmed." He gave examples of news crews coaching refugees on how to act in front of the cameras.
In one example, he said a news crew threw a refugee child into the mud to make him cry for the camera.
read MORE here


IX
helen



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