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Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors

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posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 04:34 PM
reply to post by AJ Lavender

For starters, the governments could have a look at pharmaceutical companies, and some form of regulation.

Yes some drugs take a lot of money to develop, but the reimbursement has gone beyond greed and into the realms of silly money.

posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 08:14 PM

Originally posted by budski

Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors

Smokers, heavy drinkers, the obese and the elderly should be barred from receiving some operations, according to doctors, with most saying the health service cannot afford to provide free care to everyone.
About one in 10 hospitals already deny some surgery to obese patients and smokers, with restrictions most common in hospitals battling debt.

Managers defend the policies because of the higher risk of complications on the operating table for unfit patients. But critics believe that patients are being denied care simply to save money.
(visit the link for the full news article)

This is hilarious, given that most obese people are actually more healthy on the inside than skinny people.

This reeks of nothing but ugenics

posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 08:54 PM
It's not fair for the Doctors to be the ones to chose this for patients. If a patients has an unhealthy lifestyle that caused they problem, isn't it more likely they will learn from it after major surgery, possibly correcting their problem? Neglecting certain people in the health system will further cause problems, causing more of a strain on it.

posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 09:23 PM
Has anyone considered that the human body itself may be obsolete, and in dire need of some upgrades?

It is still "designed" for 30,000 BC caveman life rather than 2000 AD urban life.

posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 09:30 PM
reply to post by IAmTetsuo

A star for Tetsuo. I agree. We are still, essentially, cavemen. We put a lot of stuff into our bodies that was never meant to be there.

posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 05:17 AM

Originally posted by Juicy

Some people are just stingy and greedy and think that you can constantly eat fastfood. THOSE are the people who need to have a swift kick in their rear end.

I don't know, this is just my observation, maybe you could go and do some observations yourself. but well, out of all the resturants that we've visited since moving to va.....even the mac donalds....I have never, ever, in my life seen so many OBESE people gathered in one place than what gather at one of the steak houses here! My husband likes to go there sometimes, but the whole time I am there, I am seeing these people, abnormally huge people, and I am sitting there, afraid to eat much of anything, because I am wondering.....what the heck is this place putting in their food that is making their customers that fat!!! My bet is on that they are using beef that is filled with growth hormones or something!
I honestly don't think that this is a problem the individual can take care of on their own. I tend to think that there might be a problem within our environment, or maybe in the way were are processing, and overprocessing our food.
Like I've already stated, maybe we should spend less time worrying about the individual's health habits and worry more about the habits of our government and businesses!


posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 05:41 AM

Originally posted by AJ Lavender
I live in the U.S. and have an HMO, but I spent my first 20+ years in England and experienced the NHS. Neither system is perfect and both are near the breaking point due to a lack of funds.

Bingo! Its always about money, yet we keep on working and paying taxes so whats wrong? Its dead simple. Our governments, just like us people, need to borrow money to exist because we live under the rule of the banks. Most of our taxes are spent on paying interest for the loans our goverment takes out.

I fear the problems are too big to be fixed. There needs to be a paradigm shift in thinking if this or any healthcare system is to prove workable.

Really simple solution, make the banking industry non-profit. Da daaaa! End of poverty and a new era of prosperity.

posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 05:20 AM
ya know, I understand what you're saying about the banking system....
but well, consider just how much money our government is getting in taxes now, and compare that to what they are spending...
do you really think, that by giving the government back the power to print the money it needs will make any difference?
sure we wouldn't be owing any interest on the debt anymore, but I bet those presses would be churning out dollar bills at twice the rate they are now!! so, instead of us facing the problems we are now, we would be probably facing hyperinflation.

the government has to sit down, and take a really close look at just how they are spending their money!! and an even closer look at just what effect this spending is having on the overall picture! If it's not having the results that they were intending, but rather something more negative than positive...well, it seems to me, they need to find a better way to spend that money, one that will produce a positive result. or maybe, just maybe, not spend it at all.
so don't the american people!!
till this is done, it doesn't matter who prints the money, or how taxes are figured out, weather we're socialists or capitalists! spending is spending, and the crutch of the matter is....WE ARE SPENDING TOO DANGED MUCH!!!

posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 05:46 AM
in a twisted way the Doc's may have something there....

the Death Tax=Inheritance Tax is set to return very soon,

the Bush administration only temporarily suspended the Inheritance Tax (which can suck up over 50% of the death benefit)
Its up to congress to vote the repeal as permanent.

perhaps the medical community is telling us that expensive & redundant
procedures that are required by medicaid/medicare/bluecross, etc
are generally a waste of medical care & resources already stretched to the limit....
train more Oncologists, and have more Hospice care services instead...

it could make the patients more comfortable and might even
(excuse the crass thought here) allow a greater transfer of wealth
between the , say parent & child, rather than a cold, capitalistic, medical
industry siphoning off the major part of any Inheritance.

~just a thought from the fringe people~

[edit on 31-1-2008 by St Udio]

posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 05:48 AM

This story has been a hot issue in this part of the country for quite some time:

Debbie lives in Cornwall and she has been fighting to get a new drug, Avastin which halts the growth of tumours.
Avastin has been licensed but it is not available on the NHS.

Debbie says it was her consultant who suggested a solution.

"My oncologist said it would cost about £60,000. There is no way they would fund it, so we said can we fund it ourselves? The answer was yes."

But then came guidance from the Department of Health. If Debbie paid for Avastin she would have to pay for all her treatment.

Full story

posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 05:56 AM
But then came guidance from the Department of Health. If Debbie paid for Avastin she would have to pay for all her treatment.


this is way I really would not see our healthcare system become more socialized...
we, the people, should have some rights to decide what treatments are right for us, and what treatements aren't. it's bad enough here in the states that the insurance company's (and for some gov't) can refuse payment if the treatment being given isn't to their liking. but at least, if we want, and can, we can use our own money for whatever treatment we think is best.

we go down the socialist road, and well, eventually, they'll be throwing 50 different pills at us, and telling us if we don't take them, well, they won't pay for any treatment. or something like that.

posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 06:39 AM
reply to post by dawnstar

Having recently watched "Sicko" I would have to say that I would much rather have our system, flawed as it is.

I realise that some of the film needs a grain of salt or two, but it was a damning portrait nonetheless.

posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 01:57 PM
Health Care is not sickness care.

If we really had Health Care we would be educated from birth on good health habits.
If we really had Health Care we would learn good habits of social interaction and self responsibility.
If there really was Health Care we would have good naturally produced food.
If we really had Health Care people would not get degenerative diseases.

Consider that neither the Doctors nor the Pharma companies nor the insurance companies would have many customers if everyone was healthy.

Once upon a time an ordinary carpenter could afford to pay for tonsilectomies for both of his children and not be impoverished by it.
Exactly What happened to change that?

It should be obvious that it is/was in their best interests for us to be sick.
That is where the money is/was.
Now that they have us there, they are feeling the pinch of their bad decisions. Their plan is backfiring on them.

We should not be demanding more sickness care.
We should be demanding more Real Health Care.

[edit on 31-1-2008 by OhZone]

posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 09:54 AM
...... I read the thread title and just blinked. Am I surprised? No. Why you ask?

Because I am going through denial for healthcare as it is. I have fibromyalgia and I have YET to receive any help with medications to deal with the pain. My insurance with my new job will kick in soon and it will not cover my medical condition. I get told to "deal with it" and "lose weight".

I have worked in a nursing home before I seen how the elderly are treated. Denied medical procedures with excuses of "they are not well enough to have them" when in fact, they were perfectly capable of surviving the procedure and having a better life after it was done. I have watched elderly die when denied the procedures they needed.

Crap isnt going to change until everyone makes their voice heard on it. Sooner or later it will get to the point that only the rich will be able to have a doctor's care.

posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 10:12 AM
Well, it's been my experience that doctors are willing to treat the elderly.....IF they get paid TOP dollar to do so.......

They wrote unneccessary prescriptions right and left for my poor Mother, trotted her to the hospital for tests and pointless treatments, when all she needed was enough morphine to keep her comfortable till her time came.....

Truly the pointless drivel they employed to squeeze all they could out of her insurance, probably shortened her life.

posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:26 AM
Maybe we should also apply the same rule to those who have encouraged and make vast revenue on things like smoking and drinking therefore adding to the vast amount the NHS has to waste on treatment.

People like.......the Government

posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 12:30 AM

Originally posted by frayed1
They wrote unneccessary prescriptions right and left for my poor Mother, trotted her to the hospital for tests and pointless treatments, when all she needed was enough morphine to keep her comfortable till her time came.....

That's another common thread that I noticed. The medical establishment is reluctant to treat pain, but so concerned about drug addiction and drug abuse and saving everyone's soul and BS like that.

If I was to name a class of people completely undeserving of medical treatment, it would have to be those pompous toughguys (most of them I suspect are Bible thumpers) utterly lacking in empathy for someone else's pain - or worse call us pansies, or tell us to "shut up and kwityerwhinin", or even say it somehow "builds character".

Let those SOBs die in the street. Or better yet, feed them to the lions and let it build their character!

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