It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors

page: 1
7
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 11:20 AM
link   

Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors


www.telegraph.co.uk

Smokers, heavy drinkers, the obese and the elderly should be barred from receiving some operations, according to doctors, with most saying the health service cannot afford to provide free care to everyone.
About one in 10 hospitals already deny some surgery to obese patients and smokers, with restrictions most common in hospitals battling debt.

Managers defend the policies because of the higher risk of complications on the operating table for unfit patients. But critics believe that patients are being denied care simply to save money.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 11:20 AM
link   
This really gets my goat - in many instances, these people have paid into the NHS all their lives, only to be denied the care they need.

Smokers in particular pay massive amounts of tax, and are responsible for propping up the NHS

We have hard drug users being given free treatment and drugs, whilst doctors advocate letting older people who have paid into the system all their lives, simply die?

Perhaps if the NHS were not as over-managed, they could afford to treat those entitled by right.

But no, we have essentially useless managers earning huge sums, whilst complaining that the NHS has no money.

We also have the huge problem of health tourism - with many people who have never paid into the system coming into the country just to demand treatment.

I'm usually quite liberal about these things, but in this case, charity begins at home.

www.telegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 11:35 AM
link   
and, if I were on of those that they barred, because of my fondness for smoking, I would give up my squeegee and all those harmful chemicals I work with and find me a nice, clean, safe, and well, not too physically demanding job....preferable one that put my income down so low that the gov't wouldn't be recieving squat from me! God, the chemicals that some of the workers are working with make shs seem like candy, and yet, they continuously gripe about the cigs, and there's a pretty good possibility that the obesity problem has more to do with how our food is being processed than it has to do with how much these people eating...please keep in mind, it takes more calories to carry a 300 lb body than it does a 100 lb body!!
perfumes and other fragrant products pose the same risks as shs, and well, they are silent about that one!
wth!! they gonna bar everyone that uses these fragrant products from the health system also, what about printers, like me, we chose to play with all these lovely chemicals everyday!! Should we be barred? What about the machinist...they breathe in more metal based dust than you can imaging...should they be barred also? Life is just getting all so too irratatingly obnoxious!! By the time they are done, they're gonna have to force me to go to the doctor to save my life anyways...so well, they kiss my..*******...!!!



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 11:47 AM
link   
I agree they (smokers,drinkers) shouldn't get organs unless theres "extras" Or should at least get "B stock" organs. As they chose to be unhealthy.
Older people would probably be a case to case basis . If theres a kid that needs it just as bad i say it should go to the kid.
Btw i'm a smoker myself and i couldn't live knowing i got a lung that could have went to a kid that didn't waste 10+ years of his life smoking.

But other medial treatment shouldn't be denied. Unless of course there just taking them on a "best chance" basis . Due to over crowding or something of that nature.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 11:53 AM
link   
I think it should be upto a person if they choose to get help. If they want it, it should be there.

If they wanted to do this stuff, why did they not let germany win ww2. From my experience of doctors, they are like what i imagine doctors would be like in concentration camps back in ww2. Obviously they must play god in so many ways.

I always said that they wuld eventually just do what the nazis were going to do, as the nazis were well ahead of there time, and they saw things like this coming.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:03 PM
link   
Well siad Bud, I'm sick of this emerging Fascist state where everything has a value put on it, its all about money all the time yet there is always money for war and mayhem, no shortage of money there is there.

Old if you did not know people get addicted to drink and tobaco so those people should be helped not refused it. Do you know just how much those industries make in proffits, if anyone should pay up it should be them and they are selling known addictive substances. As always in this country blame the end user and make them pay, its time to wake up and punish the real perps, the ones selling the drugs and the Goverment making billions in taxes evey year from said industries.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:05 PM
link   
It seems that this would go against the Hippocratic oath. How do the doctors reconcile these two ideas?



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by forestlady
It seems that this would go against the Hippocratic oath. How do the doctors reconcile these two ideas?


In the real world, doctors do play god. They choose how they do things.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:07 PM
link   
I pay for health insurance I have a 1 million$ coverage.

megalife health insurance. prob some crappy HMO. doesnt cover there operations.

Im sorry your fat even tho you paid for coverage. and there is fat people who have a medical condition that makes them overweight not there fault.

some are eaters but not everyone kinda unfair to judge like that.

and I do smoke but i am covered anyways.
1st thing i asked about.

btw there is a fat tax comming soon for health insurance providers.

looks like we all are gonna pay extra if we dont look like super models and run 5 miles everyday.

o well.

But this is ATS half the posters love big pharma big government and do not care about anyones life but there own.

so i expect alot cold hearted replies.

its a shame what the world is turning into no one cares about anyone unless they pay enuff $$$$

Dont worry I love you still and my fellow man. Even tho I been robbed stabbed beaten at clubs.

ppl suck.

[edit on 28-1-2008 by NWOmaskedman]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:08 PM
link   
reply to post by magicmushroom
 


Addiction is a way to cope. I have quit everything at least once . I know the health risks ,
So does everyone else. I don't want to stray off topic . But i think it would be selfish in the circumstances i spoke of. I guess we can agree to disagree



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:09 PM
link   
Thats right, 'treat' the young and healthy. The 'treatments' will help bring their health levels down over time, so that someday they too are old and unhealthy.

The only true medicine is nutrition, everything else are just placebos and bandaids.
DocMoreau



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:10 PM
link   
Yeah, turn away elderly people who have been paying taxes in their entire lives, yet continue to treat every illegal that comes walking into our emergency rooms with god knows what.


Disgusting



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:12 PM
link   
Eugenics is the natural evolution of socialized medicine. Even if you milked the very rich out of all of their money sooner or later you'll be right back to this.

Anyone with any foresight or grasp of history knows this. But those two sources of truth are easily cast aside in the name of "compassion."

Eventually it won't just be the sick or disabled who are denied health care but everyone not fitting into the oligarch's elitist views will also be deemed unfit and denied health care.

That's the way it goes.


apc

posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:14 PM
link   
[insert very long list of anti-socialist medicine arguments]

I Told You So!

Now we're going to have an even greater flood of people coming to the US seeking treatment for their illnesses (not that that's a bad thing). You give government your health care, and that's exactly what they take.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:22 PM
link   
I little personal history here - I badly injured my back over 4 years ago.
I have been cast aside by a physio who couldn't work out the problem and so didn't bother sending follow up appointments, because that would mean an unsuccessfull treatment which would affect his bonus, I've seen specialists and consultants who are unable to help.
One small scan (MRI) could possibly determine what the problem is, and how it could be repaired - but the doctors won't authorise one due to the expense.

This means that my GP will not send me for an MRI - because the expense will be allocated to his surgery (or at least some of it) therefore costing him money.

GP's don't like ongoing problems these days, because of the targetting system - they have to be seen to be "curing" people or they lose bonus money.

Then we have an illegal immigrant from an african, asian or eastern european country, who gets off the plane (or whatever) goes to a hospital, and gets expensive drugs - denied in some cases to UK nationals.

I'm not saying that these people should be left to die, I am saying that allocating time and money to those who have supported the system should be the priority.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by budski
Then we have an illegal immigrant from an african, asian or eastern european country, who gets off the plane (or whatever) goes to a hospital, and gets expensive drugs - denied in some cases to UK nationals.


Replace African, Asian and Eastern European with Mexican and you've got the U.S.A. Though those of us with insurance don't get denied anything. We just have to pay more to cover the expenses of the uninsured. The illegals are driving up our costs to the point that many here are crying for eugenics, oops, I mean universal health care.

It's amazing how far and long people will ignore a problem. Apparently they'll ignore problems right up until they begin to affect you personally then it comes on as a big surprise that there is a problem. The joke is that by then it's way too late to fix.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by budski

I'm not saying that these people should be left to die, I am saying that allocating time and money to those who have supported the system should be the priority.

In my opinion priority should be everyone, obese, smokers, illegal immigrants etc.

This world needs to change, stop spending billions on war, and put it towards something that can REALLY change for the better.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:30 PM
link   
reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


The point is, that social medicine should be prioritised for those who have paid into the system their whole lives.

Why not go the whole hog and deny treatment to people with HIV or AIDS acquired by having unprotected sex?
They knew the risks, every bit as much as a smoker does.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:31 PM
link   
And besides smokers and the obese; the poor will be denied health care.

The health for profit system in the US actually shows what is important in this culture of greed and corruption. HMO bigdogs get huge bonuses and the poor get dumped. were doomed!

www.usatoday.com...

It's a brave new world, welcome to the monkey house!!



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:33 PM
link   
You know I am not a smoker never have been. However, I do know they use act like it was the “IN” thing to do. It was promoted as a good thing. It was in your classic TV shows. Example, “I love Lucy” promoted smoking all the time. Of course it’s not alone. Your classic movies also promoted it as well as magazine’s and newspaper’s and commercial’s and bill broads. Now they are fussing at these same people they did this too.

Obese in my opinion for the most part comes from the hormones, steroids, and all the other junk they put into our foods. They already found the gene in mice that can make one mice eat and eat and eat and no matter what he gains no weight. Likewise a mice eats normal and everything he eats puts weight on him. So again in my opinion, they have made some people fat. There is too many people today that are 250, 300, 350, 400, 450, 500+ pounds here in our county. This is un heard years ago. We have done this too them. I don’t believe other countries have the same problems it’s because they don’t USE their people as guinea pigs.

On top of all this now you know what socialize medicine is going to be all about when the democrats puts it into action. Thousands of people will be denied care and left to die.




top topics



 
7
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join