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Bush asking for $70 billion more to keep war going

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posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 01:10 AM
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thats a shame that money could be put to much better use for examples the school system or maybe habitat for humanity The cost of land and infrastructure ranges from $15000 to $25000 per house imagine how many houses 70 billion would build .




posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 01:15 AM
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Yeah just saw his State of the Union speech on the BBC this morning.Well not all of it but enough for me to shake my head in disgust.
He is still banging on about those damm terrorists al-Qaeda in Iraq,and got a loud cheer when he said the terrorists know the surge is working

Mind you that loud cheer was from a room full of liars whose only interests is to feather thier own nests while allowing Bush to continue this bloody war he started on a pack of lies

If there is any justice in this world that spy satallite hurtling out of control without a care in the world wil land on a man also without a care in the world.I would like to think of it as a gift from his god



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 02:05 AM
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Don't you people, know that if we pull our troops out of Iraq/Afghanistan we have given the country to Extremists' that want every United States Citizen DEAD!!!!!! As well as anyone who is not a Muslim.

Don't believe me, go play Command and Conquer, make an army, send them into the enemy base, then leave their HQ remaining and pull back. It will be a stalemate. STALEMATE. And they will rebuild their forces and attack.

If we pull out, we loose, simple as that. I think the people that post the crap about the United States Military, have no freaking clue of how it is like, and they are so freaking brainwashed that they will believe any hateful thing they hear.

One of my Buddies came back from Iraq with his leg blown off, from a little boy, with an IED in his backpack.
Now tell me if we pulled out, things would be better???

I think not. You guys need to stop being uptight jackasses, and see the main picture.

All you guys do is hate. I am getting sick and freaking tried of all this hate for the United States of America.

If we had someone as crazy as you make Bush seem, we would have launched Nuclear Warheads at anyone that we did not like.

Back to the topic at hand. I feel we need to slowly pull out troops, not all of them to help the Iraq/Afghan government take care of their own stuff.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 02:05 AM
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EDIT: Double post.


[edit on 29-1-2008 by Harvestfreak]



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 02:19 AM
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Hasrvestfreak , you are not realizing the costs of imperialism . It will cost you as a taxpayer a lot of money to sustain the imperial reaches of the usa. Do you think you will ever see a net return on your taxes to send your soldiers to foreign lands for the US hegemony ? It won't.. you will pay.. so will the lands US conquers, you are all payers.. for the only one true profiteer , the global US corporations . The only difference between you and them is you carry a flag in your hand with a smile and they carry a gun in desperation. But you all pay, either with a smile or a grimace .

you wonder why, as the US extends ever further it's hegemony.. more people are homeless in the US, more people go hungry, more people are without jobs. The Uk was like this during it's empire too, it resorted to child labour . Empire is not for the benefit of the likes of you Harvestfreak, no matter your delusions of US supremacy , you..like the the poor iraqi will pay . Thats the way empires work .



[edit on 29-1-2008 by Rahl Darc]



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR
If they were out murdering people for money then yeah i would say the same thing . Since our military is payed , Why not.


So, now you are saying that all members of the military are basically hired killers? That they go out and kill first, ask questions later?

Are you serious?


Nice strawman now knock it down

You ever hear of Blackwater? Yes,, sad as it may be,, the alternative is to risk the lives of even more soldiers just so we don't say those that already died, did in vain? I think what Old is saying is,, sad as that may be, the fact is they died because of a lie .

- Con



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 02:41 AM
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So what would you have the United States become? A third world country that has to accept handouts, in the form of Red Cross.

It costs alot to keep the nation running. I am sure you want to see the United States get defeated, and then where would the world be, in utter CHAOS. You will have militants killing people based on Race, Religion, and Sex.
I think you want that to happen.
Dude if you don't live in the United States, don't hate.

The United States, have some of the best Military on the planet. I may not agree they charge the citizens money, but hey if it means that I will be able to do what I want, fine go ahead. I don't have to pay anyway, if I don't want to.

BTW, name a country out there that has all the stuff America has, that does not have to pay taxes??

If you can then ok.

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Harvestfreak]



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by Harvestfreak



that want every United States Citizen DEAD!!!!!!

And why do you suppose they feel like that mmmm?




If we pull out, we loose, simple as that.




One of my Buddies came back from Iraq with his leg blown off, from a little boy, with an IED in his backpack.
Now tell me if we pulled out, things would be better???


Well for one that lil boy might not have blown himself to bits along with your buddy losing his leg. Sounds better to me.



I think not. You guys need to stop being uptight jackasses, and see the main picture.

Tell us,, what is "the main picture" what is it you just haven't had enough of yet?



All you guys do is hate. I am getting sick and freaking tried of all this hate for the United States of America.


You talk as if people WANT to feel that way. You don't think we want to be proud of our country? Americans don't hate America, they hate the way it's being ruined by its Government. Sometimes one of the most patriotic things you can do is get angry about what your country is doing



If we had someone as crazy as you make Bush seem, we would have launched Nuclear Warheads at anyone that we did not like.

We don't make BUSH "seem" anything guy,, he continues to prove he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer all by himself. Please don't give him any ideas about nuking anyone,, it's bad enough he has got others considering nuking US.




I feel we need to slowly pull out troops, not all of them to help the Iraq/Afghan government take care of their own stuff.


We ain't leaving Iraq,, not for a Long long time.

- Con


[edit on 29-1-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 03:19 AM
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Harvestfreak .. I don't see the world doing that. What I see is somebody impressionable being led to believe that would happen . I can tell you probably watch fox news , you believe in terrorists under your bed , it is not your fault.. americans have been lied to and made to believe all kinds of BS for decades . They (US Govnt ) even made up a special unit in the 'commie' days to make everything the soviets did seem more advanced and menacing to the US , just so they could keep the threat up and justify all that spending. Nothings changed now , just they need a new enemy .. terrorists. But unfortunately for you the bin laden cave dwellers are in short supply for the amount of $$ they want to spend .. so the new terror threats are ...you .

They (europeans etc) pay taxes of course . I am trying to say to you that the US cannot afford this imperialist course they are on , you are not paying your military to keep you safe , you are paying the military to do the work of corporations for their own profit that will never be returned to the US public but retained as profit , they are not fighting for your freedoms in the US .. your government takes away more freedoms from you with every passing law than any poor innocent iraqi ever could .

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Rahl Darc]



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 03:50 AM
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Originally posted by Rahl Darc


Now I understand what you are saying that the United States cannot afford this war.
You may be right. But I was trying to say that we need to stay in Iraq/Afghanistan, and how are we to do that without money. Where would we get the money from?

We need to show and keep power, because if we did not who would take us seriously?

The American people that pay for the War(s) will see it return to them, in the future, maybe not back in money, but only time will tell.

We do have the same freedom as we always had, Freedom to say what ever we want about our Leader. Unlike in some countries, if we say bad stuff about the Leader, you get executed. Look at Iran for example, even if you make a joke on national television about the Leader, you will pay for it. Here we still have freedoms that other places do not.

Now that is the message we are trying to show in these countries. We must show the people, what it is like to not feel threatened and to express themselves without fear.

Now I ask you any anyone, to name the freedoms they have taken away from us, that will hurt us. Most likely you can't because in reality they have not.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 04:09 AM
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Harvestfreak, do you have any evidence to suggest we would not have the freedom that you mention had we not gone to war? As far as I know, Saddam didn't have the resources to strip our freedom.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 04:46 AM
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It's more a framework of law and fema camp containment infrastructure they are putting into place at the moment , plus the spy satellites being trained on US civilians .

abcnews.go.com...

It's like a big hammer being put over your head ready for a smack and you saying I ain't got no bump on my head yet .

But lets see , the iraqi's never took away your freedom to talk on the phone without it being tapped, did they ? They didn't say , oh ..look at the magna carta, we don't like this habeas corpus one bit, not at all , lets do away with that right now, they didnt take away your right to demonstrate without getting a permit .

Your airport security is crazed, nobody will visit america soon . Maybe that is what they want, nobody in, nobody out .. cept maybe over the mexican border line .



[edit on 29-1-2008 by Rahl Darc]



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by Harvestfreak


You may be right. But I was trying to say that we need to stay in Iraq/Afghanistan, and how are we to do that without money. Where would we get the money from?

We don't NEED to do anything.



We need to show and keep power, because if we did not who would take us seriously?

Thanks to Bush,, Nobody does now



The American people that pay for the War(s) will see it return to them, in the future, maybe not back in money, but only time will tell.


Not likely,, not likely at all.





Now I ask anyone, to name the freedoms they have taken away from us, that will hurt us. Most likely you can't because in reality they have not.



#1. Searches and seizures without warrant

#2. Homeland Security and the Patriot Act [many of our constitutional rights gone]

#3. Protesters beaten and thrown into jail

#4. Shipped most of our good jobs overseas or south of the border through unconstitutional Free Trade Deals

#5. Habeas Corpus lost

#6 Imminent Domain authority given to Big Business, Corporations over property owners.

#7. Thought & Hate Crimes now a norm

#8. The funding of schools in Ohio ruled unconstitutional

#9. National ID Card & Chips in Drivers License

#10. Taking programs away from needy without jobs in U.S., money sent overseas to every free program anyone can conceive

#11. Every Illegal alien given free medical care, green cards, Social Security and SSI benefits, food stamps, Welfare, and millions given Amnesty so they could vote in U.S. Elections.

#12. Many Patriots thrown in prison without cause, and ruled Enemy Combatants, without rights to call their attorney or read their Miranda Rights, held without bail and may never be seen again.

#13 Right to privacy

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 08:44 AM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 


There was no Strawman there. Blackwater was never mentioned. The hired killers as was asserted was the US military.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by Conspiriology

Originally posted by Harvestfreak



that want every United States Citizen DEAD!!!!!!

And why do you suppose they feel like that mmmm?





[edit on 29-1-2008 by Conspiriology]


Have you done much research on the history of Islam, especially those of the fanatical, militant variety. They aren't interested in peaceful coexistence with infidels. They offer 3 choices- convert to Islam, die, or live in a state of Dhimmitude. Appeasement is not an option with these folks.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 10:11 AM
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Lol

I posted this in December! and didnt even get one response!
oh well, at least this still brings light on the subject.

My Thread



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by BlueRaja

There was no Strawman there. Blackwater was never mentioned. The hired killers as was asserted was the US military.




Blackwater was never mentioned.

Yes it was, I MENTIONED IT.



The hired killers as was asserted was the US military


Yeah the same military you apparently think we should compare to fireman and policeman which is like comparing apples and oranges
I think Blackwater is probably a better comparison. Oh and by the way the Military ARE hired killers. Thats there job to kill the enemy and in this case WE were in the wrong to invade that country PERIOD.

If you think honoring the dead is to risk making more die, then something is seriously wrong with your logic. Let the dead bury the dead and honor the living.



Originally posted by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR
If they were out murdering people for money then yeah i would say the same thing . Since our military is payed , Why not.


So, now you are saying that all members of the military are basically hired killers? - BlueRaja


I don't see that she said that at all but the fact is some members of the military ARE JUST THAT.



That they go out and kill first, ask questions later? - BlueRaja


Again,, you are adding context that is as meaningless as if you added
"That they go out dance around and skip rope later?" You can embellish your response to make her look as silly as you like but the fact is she didn't say kill first ask questions later, YOU DID and nowehere in that post was she suggesting they did.

The men who are fighting in Iraq are over there because they chose to join the military, to defend America, While the U.S. did not invade Iraq as a direct result of 9-11, we need to appreciate that they would have died - and continue to lay down their lives - in an effort to protect the rest of us. So whether it was a decision where YOU think they died in vain winning Iraq or not, the fact is WE HAD NO BUSINESS INVADING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE . Having 1-1000 more dead isn't going to honor those that have already died one bit no more then installing a new functioning democracy is going to justify the lies that got us in that mess to start with.

That doesn't diminish our soldiers sacrifice dying in vain unless you have some benchmark qualifier that either we meet some arbitrary standard of success or all is for not. I don't think a soldier EVER dies in vain but if someone wants to suggest such a postulate is reasonable to believe,, then that's their opinion but BE ADVISED: It is ONLY an opinion.

They go and fight where America sends them right or wrong it is still a courageous selfless and very much appreciated sacrifice for our country.

- Con








[edit on 29-1-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by BlueRaja

Have you done much research on the history of Islam, especially those of the fanatical, militant variety. They aren't interested in peaceful coexistence with infidels. They offer 3 choices- convert to Islam, die, or live in a state of Dhimmitude. Appeasement is not an option with these folks.


Well a little bit, I have been to turkey Iran and israel.

what you're suggesting is forbidden by the Qur'an and practiced only by the ignorant or the very sick and tired of American meddling

Let me quote a Sura from the Qur'an(the holy book for all muslims) which says EXACTLY what you are saying.

Sura 109 Al-Kafirun (The Disbelievers
1. Say: O Disbelievers.
2. I worship not that which you worship
3. Nor will you worship that which I worship
4.And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping
5. Nor shall you worship that which i worship
6. To you be your religion and to me be my religion.

This is a COMMAND from Allah(swt). This set of verses , among many others, which calls for tolerance on the part of muslims towards people of other beliefs. Anyone teasching different is not teaching Islam. Regardless of whether they THINK they are or CLAIM to be doing so.

The fanatical militant islamic people are twisting scripture and using a spin on the religion for political reasons. Basically they are sick and tired of the United States sticking our nose in where it doesn't belong.

That's why they call us infidels.

We used Christianity much the same way in the past.

Other then that I guess we should just exterminate all of them before they get us first huh?

- Con



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by Harvestfreak
 


Harvest,

Even if you believe Al Queda attacked America on 911 (which you probably do) there is no evidence Iraq had anything whatsoever to do with the attacks on 911. This is admitted by our government!

Edit: For some reason I can't get the YouTube to work so here is THE LINK!




Now if we went for the oil or control of the resources then why is oil $100 dollars a barrel??? Are you personally benefitting from the high gas prices??? I know I'm not! However Exxon is having a world record breaking quarter...never in history has a corporation made that much profit.

Who benefits??? Ask yourself this question.

Follow the money and suddenly the murky becomes clear.

These "leaders" are bankrupting our country on every level! Yet still drape themselves with the flag and demand more money to fight a war (or continue an occupation) for the benefit of the wealthy! They are borrowing from our children and grandchildren!!!




[edit on 29-1-2008 by Leo Strauss]



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by Leo Strauss

These "leaders" are bankrupting our country on every level! Yet still drape themselves with the flag and demand more money to fight a war (or continue an occupation) for the benefit of the wealthy! They are borrowing from our children and grandchildren!!!


Yeah Leo, you might want to check this book out called "Free Lunch" it gives all kinds of examples how the Government gives millions and millions to the already rich and how WE pay for it.

It will just Grrrrrrr. The author was on Bill Moyers Journal last week, Ill see if I can hook up a link.

- Con



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