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Hypothetical attack on U.S. outlined by China

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posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 02:16 AM
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Hypothetical attack on U.S. outlined by China


www.navytimes.com

This is China’s anti-U.S. sucker punch strategy.

It’s designed to strike America’s military suddenly, stunning and stalling the Air Force more than any other service. In a script written by Chinese military officers and defense analysts, a bruised U.S. military, beholden to a sheepish American public, puts up a small fight before slinking off to avoid full-on war.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.rand.org




posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 02:16 AM
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This strategic outlook isn’t hidden in secret Chinese documents. It’s printed in China’s military journals and textbooks. And for much of last year, Mandarin literates and defense experts — working for the Santa Monica, Calif.-based Rand Corp. on an Air Force contract — combed through a range of Chinese military sources.

They emerged with “Entering the Dragon’s Lair,” a lengthy report on how the Chinese People’s Liberation Army would likely confront the U.S. military and how the Air Force in particular can brace itself. In many cases, the theoretical enemy nation China’s officers discuss in these scenarios isn’t explicitly named but is unmistakably the U.S.



This strategic outlook isn’t hidden in secret Chinese documents. It’s printed in China’s military journals and textbooks. And for much of last year, Mandarin literates and defense experts — working for the Santa Monica, Calif.-based Rand Corp. on an Air Force contract — combed through a range of Chinese military sources.

They emerged with “Entering the Dragon’s Lair,” a lengthy report on how the Chinese People’s Liberation Army would likely confront the U.S. military and how the Air Force in particular can brace itself. In many cases, the theoretical enemy nation China’s officers discuss in these scenarios isn’t explicitly named but is unmistakably the U.S.


Provided above is a link to the PDF of the RAND corporation's report.

For all those interested in hypothetical tactics to be used in a US-China conflict over Taiwan scenario, this is a must read, and presents some real issues.

www.navytimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 28-1-2008 by TrueAmerican]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 02:26 AM
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I think this is belligerent propaganda destined to keep the US public in a belligerent mood. Taiwan just elected the pro-chinese Kuomintang with overwhelming majority, sending an anti-US signal of peace across the pacific.

[edit on 28-1-2008 by ergoli]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 01:23 PM
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I wouldn't write this off you guys. The PDF in the link provided is a very comprehensive look into what the Chinese are thinking, and how they may be able to send the US packing up to home in a conflict.

It largely deals with antiaccess strategy: the attacking of sensitive US military pressure points that would cause severe disruption of US access to forward deployment points- and measures that the US could take to help prevent that. What is curious to me is that the points made to that effect were just basically to improve this, and/or improve that, with no real coherent counter strategy.

What is more concerning is that this Chinese strategy relies on attacking these points at a time when the US military is spread thin, and thus unable to concentrate large forces in any one area. Heh, well if there's ever a time that is the case, would that time not be now? Afghan, Iraq, and now Pakistan or Iran?

I mean hell, we are all over the place, spending money we don't have, bankrupting this economy, and the military is indeed spread quite thin.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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Starred and flagged-Thanks for the report True American.

I agree. China is no joke. They and Russia appear to be increasingly sick of the states world-policing, bullying and meddling in their regions. And our leaders are weakening our domestic defense capabilities as well as economic infrastructure by fighting all these small skirmishes everywhere and exhausting our military on foreign conflicts.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 01:33 PM
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US had the same;

List of Colour-coded War Plans

* War Plan Red was a plan for war against Britain and Canada. British territories had war plans of different shades of red -- the UK was "Red," Canada "Crimson," India "Ruby," Australia "Scarlet" and New Zealand "Garnet."
* War Plan Black was a plan for war with Germany. The best-known version of Black was conceived as a contingency plan during World War I in case France fell and the Germans attempted to seize French possessions in the Caribbean, or launch an attack on the eastern seaboard.
* War Plan Brown dealt with an uprising in the Philippines.
* War Plan Citron was for Brazil.
* War Plan Emerald was for intervention in Ireland in conjunction with War Plan Red.
* War Plan Gray dealt with invading a Caribbean republic.
* War Plan Green involved war with Mexico or what was known as "Mexican Domestic Intervention" in order to defeat rebel forces and establish a pro-American government. War Plan Green was officially canceled in 1946.
* War Plan Gold was a plan for war with France and French Caribbean possessions.
* War Plan Indigo involved an invasion of Iceland. In 1941, during the German occupation of Denmark, the U.S. actually did occupy Iceland, relieving British units during the Battle of the Atlantic.
* War Plan Lemon was for Portugal.
* War Plan Olive was for Spain.
* War Plan Orange was a plan for war against Japan, which formed some of the basis for the actual campaign against Japan in World War II.
* War Plan Purple dealt with invading a Central American republic, or possibly with Russia (There may have been two different Purples).
* War Plan Silver was for war with Italy.
* War Plan Tan was for intervention in Cuba.
* War Plan White dealt with a domestic uprising in the U.S., and later evolved to Operation Garden Plot, the general U.S. military plan for civil disturbances and peaceful protests. Parts of War Plan White were used to deal with the Bonus Expeditionary Force in 1932. Communist insurgents were considered the most likely threat by the authors of War Plan White.
* War Plan Yellow dealt with war in China - specifically, the defense of Beijing and relief of Shanghai during the Second Sino-Japanese War. War Plan Violet was for intervention in Chinese domestic events.

US colour-coded war plans



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by ergoli
 


The current US administration has adopted a policy under Bush in which America "wishes Taiwan not to damage relations with China" i.e why the US does not support Taiwan UN membership.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 01:36 PM
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I look at it this way.

I've seen more threads on here alone outlining defensive and offensive strategy scenarios for a long time. Our Military has them, and why should the Chinese be any different? This is not a shock to me at all and it does not alarm me in any way.

I will not at this point treat the Chinese as enemies, nor will I allow myself to become irritated by war propaganda, as I have learned in my own pursuits that it is much better to keep your potential foes close to you, and treat them with respect. That way, any ill feelings on either side that are to be taken seriously will become quickly apparent.

I think if there is a war with China in the future, it would be the US making that choice, although it would be a very bad choice for both regardless of who makes it.

The solution here is for the US to Talk to China and compromise.
If we are going to maintain our current belligerant stance, it just might become contagious.

I don't think something like this warrants any alarm.

As a sidenote, I look forward to the input of anyone from China.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 01:39 PM
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I dont understand why china goods arent boycotted id like to see em attack usa with no money wont happen tho.

we are to relient on china even tho there out to kill us.

this just doesnt make sense.

We must attack Iran tho a country with no nukes.

but china is fine they are outlining us invasion tactics and have a army the size of the whole us population.

and have nukes.

so why is iran sucha threat.

oh ya isreal hates em. now it makes sense.

boycott isreal boycott china.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by infinite
 


I believe its a policy that has been adopted since Nixon where we pleased China and maintain the status quo with Taiwan. Unification through peaceful means, but not by force.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 01:44 PM
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War plans are nothing new, and surely nothing to get excited about.

Every country does it, and has done for years.

I expect that somewhere, is a plan that details how the US would go about invading/conquering the UK.

It doesn't mean it will happen - it just means that all avenues need to be explored if your military has too much time on its hands and has to use up its budget for certain departments.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by NWOmaskedman
 


I would like to see you type in English that we can all understand. Then I would like to see you complaining how you have no electronics in your house, or clothes, or shoes, or many other things after you start this China boycott.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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Good point!

Fact is, we produce nothing here in the US anymore. Very few things.
A great many things we all have in our homes come from China and Taiwan.

Let's keep this thread going.

I want to ask everyone these questions:

1 Why (being the case) do you have such a hatred for China?

2 Who are you listening to that helped you form this opinion?

3 Do you honestly think the Chinese as a people wish you harm?

I think that through discussion we can clear up a lot here, so let's do it.
Proceed....



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by NWOmaskedman
I dont understand why china goods arent boycotted id like to see em attack usa with no money wont happen tho.


By that logic you should boycott US made products also...


So how do you justify 'Operation Northwoods', a plan to attack US interests and blame it on Cuba?

Point is your own government is as bad if not worse for making 'war plans'.
With the way the US acts in the world, do you really blame China? They're just trying to protect their interests like anybody else in this global economic world.

No China are not the threat, capitalism is. Capitalism is what causes countries to have to protect their interests with force. It's not you they want to go to war against, it's not a personal vendetta. It's the way the world has been manipulated by the ruling elites that causes this not Chinese people.

And no this is not an anti-US or pro-China point of view, it's just seeing things for the way they are. If you don't allow your emotions to cloud your judgment I believe you would agree.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 04:38 PM
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First, this is merely the Chinese propaganda machine at work to stir up think tanks like RAND and others to show that they have more ability than they really do.
Second, just because Americans are not satisfied with the war in Iraq do they think that an attack on America will be accepted by the American public? Thinking that is foolish because should that happen you will see people lining up in front of the recruiters offices for all branches of the military like it did after the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Lastly, the Chinese underestimate the US logistical machine when it comes to waging war away from home. We have done it more than any other nation and the chinese will have time trying to match those kind of logistical skills even in the distant future.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by sputniksteve
reply to post by NWOmaskedman
 


I would like to see you type in English that we can all understand. Then I would like to see you complaining how you have no electronics in your house, or clothes, or shoes, or many other things after you start this China boycott.


Right on. I recently read that 97% of all non-athletic shoes sold in the United States are foreign-made, and a large fraction thereof is bound to be Chinese...

Apart from the scary/futuristic/coolness factor in the OP, I don't see why China would want to destroy the market for its own goods, which they at least can temporarily take advantage of. I'm saying temporarily because I don't think this is sustainable in the long run, since we don't produce much anymore. Sooner or later we'll have to start making shoes again and these will cost you $150 a pair for the cheapest ones, but so be it.

If you research the actual numbers of American exports/imports in the past 15 years, you'll be shocked. It's equally amazing that public at large doesn't know about the sheer scale fo this insanity.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 05:43 PM
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Is it me, or do anyone else think that China of all the powers in this world is the least aggressive one at least when it comes to foreign policy.

Every country in the world has right to prepare for aggression but to me China is more like a inward type of country. More like dont bother us and we dont bother you.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by IAF101
...the Chinese underestimate the US logistical machine when it comes to waging war away from home. We have done it more than any other nation and the chinese will have time trying to match those kind of logistical skills even in the distant future.


Well no. Actually the Chinese understand our logistical and military machines quite well. And have devised a viable strategy against both. But of course if you had really gone in there and read the report, you'd know that.

And all I have to say to this argument that China would never crap where it eats, is it would be rather ignorant to think that without the US, China could not find other plentiful markets to make up a good portion of the loss.

This report focuses on what they could do to severely limit US access to not only Taiwan, but other areas as well. I thought it was worth a look. Sorry it is mere kiddy play to all the brilliant, report-reading intelligence in this thread.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by TrueAmerican
 


Sorry if my post came off that way. It is a very good topic, it is a good thing you brought it up. I happen to work in China and studied the region in college, so I know a little bit about of a little bit.

The relationship between the 2 countries is important to a lot of people for good reasons. They have a very large population. I would never be so silly to state that they will never go to war, but I don't think it is a very big concern right now. Lets not forget the all too distant past where they popped a Song Class Submarine up in the middle of our most secure Carrier formations. Not to mention they denied us access to Hong Kong's port last November, which in turn denied all our troops a well deserved visit with their families.

Now if you compare that to some recent events, if that is not gonna get some heat from our government, it is gonna take a lot.

This is obviously all my speculation, for all I know we could go to war tomorrow. I certainly hope not though.

**edit for Buddha** I cannot quote any statistics about the shoes, but I am told that 1 city I visit is one of the worlds leading Manufacturer of shoes. I will say you can buy textiles for stupidly low prices.

[edit on 30-1-2008 by sputniksteve]



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 07:55 PM
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A number of posts in this thread have raised the issue of "the unlikelihood of any attack of the U.S. --or her interests-- by the Chinese ?" Again, a number of valid reasons were cited: from Chinese reliance upon the lucrative U.S. market to China being an "inwardly" focused nation.

The point is....the U.S. and, probably, all counties develop contingency planning for the expected and, most importantly, for the unexpected. That's what military strategic planners do! They make plans for scenarios of all types and it is absolutely essential that they do so.

Just remember the public furor over the U.S. governments' poor planning and response when Katrina struck New Orleans. Americans everywhere were livid and they certainly had a right to be. The reasons, though manifold, were ultimately do to poor planning. Of course, Katrina was a natural disaster (compounded by numerous human - governmental errors) but proper planning could have minimized the loss of life and property.

The very same factors hold true with the military planning performed in the unlikely(?) prospect of having to deal with military threats from China or, for that matter, any nation that would seek to attack the U.S. or it's military and/or economic interests. Can you imagine the justified uproar of the American public if, by some chance, China did attack the U.S. or her interests? Heads would roll -- literally!

So, it really is prudent that the U.S. make plans to attack and/or defend itself from China. In that effort, it is also just as prudent to, as the Rand Report outlines, develop any possible attack scenario that the Chinese might develop should they decide to do the unthinkable.

With this said, I am certain that this thread was not started with any malice towards the Chinese by the OP, TrueAmerican. TrueAmerican is simply the messenger, so to speak, of information that we may not necessarily want to hear but, nevertheless, is worthy of consideration.

I, for one, have been extremely interested in noting the curious pattern of industrial and military espionage that has been conducted by the Chinese against the U.S. Beginning, most notably, under the Clinton administration there have been numerous instances of breeches of Top Secret information that have been accessed by the Chinese. While I am certain that the U.S. has also done its' share of espionage against China, I must also note that China is an extremely closed society (when compared to the U.S.) and any U.S. espionage operation against China is more difficult. With this in mind, maybe a Chinese "surprise attack" isn't so unthinkable?



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