For once I am officially scared.

I hope they keep on this.
Nature has never been "Fine."
Nature can never be perfect- It's up to us, humans, to take our evolution, to take our society into a new era; void of old diseases and afflictions, to take us into a world where autism, down syndrome, birth defects, hereditary diseases, all just cease to be- Through our own hands.

I, like most of you, long for the day, when I can look upon all we've worked so hard for- For all we've grasped at for so long; to have finally achieved that, to know, that we'll be just fine- That we can take care of one another, that no longer will things be chalked up to "luck of the draw." But that the draw will all be even.

A world where every child has sight, and hearing- Where every child has a meal and shelter, and education.
This, this is the world I long for.
And these, these are the stepping stones for my tomorrow.

Originally posted by WuTang
Funny I am in the middle of reading Frankenstein. I highly recommend it, as none of the movies do it any justice (although Robert Deniro ripping out that girls heart is pretty cool - if you have seen it

). An interesting issue to debate thats for sure. If they do continue down this path, they just better make sure that they give it a name and make it a companion, or else...

I've been waiting good long years for Hollywood to make a modern day version of Frankenstein.
Especially now with all the technology that is available and even more since we are on the verge of possibly creating new, dare I say, life forms.
Seems all the ones that have been redone always take place in the same period of the 1800's and I don't know about you but I am sick to death with all the vampire movies we've been bombarded with.
Even the Mummy has had a few sequels.

Why does Hollywood discriminate when it comes to Frankie?

I would nominate Peter Stormare to play the Monster.
He already has some resemblance to Boris Karloff

Is it even possible to create life like that though? Can you just take specific parts, put them together, and "boom" you have a living organism? Sounds a bit too much like Frankenstein to me.

reply to post by Dewm0nster


I as well long for that how ever it cant happen. For the reasons already stated. We will screw it all up because of our own in ability to think of others before our selves.

As for nature. How has it screwed up? Every thing nature does is for the survival of the system, not the survival of humans alone. Our arrogance alone leads us to believe we are the only thing nature cares about. the system works as a whole or doesn't work at all. It worked fine for millions of years in till we came along, and started screwing things up with our we want it all for our selfs attitude.

Don't take my words as a defeatist attitude. We will do this we will screw it up and we will try to survive it.

Trying to survive is what we do at all cost. I am under no illusion about what we are and what we do. We survive, but one day our own selfishness is going to go to far and create a situation we will not be able to survive. We will try non the less

I was made in a test tube
test tube baby lol

reply to post by Kr0n0s


We're so busy discovering that we can, that we seem to be ignoring the question of "should we?". Our grasp of sciences has placed us on the cusp of incredible things. Incredible advances lie ahead of us, so do the possibilities of horrific pitfalls. Our grasp of ethics has not kept up with our scientific advances. We should tread carefully on our path.

I find it somewhat worrisome, too.

well put seagull
You said in a few words what I have been trying to say with many. Some times fewer is better.

Remembering what Jeff Goldblum's character remarked in Jurassic Park always gives me pause, something to the effect of: We’re so busy trying to figure out if we could, we didn’t stop to think if we should.

Do we dare take comfort in human decision as to what constitutes a human being? As I understand things, one cannot truly play God, as -- for one -- the concept of God implies that literally all possible variables are known prior to the creation of a thing in order for it to most efficiently exist according to natural design. Needless to say, without all possible variables in the universe being known (as far as I know, we're still learning how it all works), how can a complex organism be assured that it is complete, design-wise?

For example, if the human is triune (spirit/soul/body), from whence comes the spirit of a lab-produced being? Will it automatically be endowed upon "birth" with one, or does that remain missing from such a particular life experience? Or is spirituality just simply done away with in the new ManMadeMan era, as there really is no such thing as spirit, and this science will finally prove it, once and for all? . .


[edit on 1/28/2008 by OptionToChoose]

Originally posted by antar

No need to leave it to nature, nature is not always the best course.

Now if you are talking about genetic reproduction in the lab to clone other earthlings namely other mammals for food, then you are right, that is the job of Satan.

I disagree here, I believe nature/evolution/the way is always the best way. For instance, sick do not survive because they are not fit enough, we save those people out of compassion and humility, for what ? - they pass that defect on to their kids and their kids kids until it becomes widespread enough to be named. Nature is always best in my books, as far as I'm concerned Nature is the will of God, the will of God being the way of God, every attempt we have made to intervene has always ended up with contaminations or imbalances which we've been trying to rectify ever since.


And in regards to Satan ? - He doesnt even have a job anymore, let alone such a ridiculous job such as was mentioned. He was'nt even such a bad guy, he never did anything a normal human being would consider bad. All he did was teach us unearned knowledge, allbeit against God's will (nature/way of God)... all creations are supposed to evolve uniquely, without help from external beings.

J



[edit on 28-1-2008 by mortalengine]

reply to post by angryamerican


AI and synthetic life are pretty much the same thing. We will start to build them with barriers that will protect us. Weither they work or not we will find out someday.

Reference: A.I./ I Robot/ Terminator I-3/ The Matrix Trilogy/ I could go on.

reply to post by Royal76



I hear ware your coming from. To me however AI (artificial intelligence) and SL (synthetic life) are two different things. To me AI is mechanical or electrical ware SL is biological. The Synthetic referring to man made not referring to mechanical, or electrical. synthetic oil as an example is still oil it just came from man not nature. well thats the way I see it any way.

By the way Love your avatar.



[edit on 28-1-2008 by angryamerican]

The bug, Mycoplasma genitalium, has the smallest known genome of any truly living organism, with 485 working genes. Viruses are smaller, but they are not considered completely alive as they cannot replicate by themselves.

The above statement from the article in the op's post is 100% proof of the fact that mainstream science is capable of creating whatever viruses that they want too. This may not be anything new to anybody here but I would like to just point out that this would be an important statement for any sheeple out there and it may help them put 2+2 together and discover the horrible truth that AIDS, CANCER and even BIRD FLUE where made in a lab and purposely released in the public.

Maybe the deal is this. Our race was created by gods who had a batch recipe for bipedal life forms with a bio support system to jump start there creation into what we are now.

Since we were abandoned to our own devices, our reason to be has brought us to the age of gods and we now hold what they had than. It is now our job to conclude the process with a new form of magnificences that out performs the old and in the glorious end realm of man, we become as gods with longevity and a display of profound knowledge.

The day sentient consciousness can be transfered to a machine is the day we enter the realm of gods. I prefer to remain mortal as I reach the point of self realization this is nothing but a play ground for those who are addicted to life.

My biggest concern is that a technology like this be in the right hands...

And Dr. J. Craig Venter is (from all accounts) a very selfish, self serving, man.

This is a very ominous begging for such a potentially planet transforming technology...

And, I agree, our technological advances are far out pacing our social advances - a clear recipe for disaster.

I am going stick my neck out here and put a spanner in the works for a good cause. The whole genetics designer babies thing bothers me. Why? i hear you cry, well because it is a very personal thing to me. You see i am profoundly deaf and have been since birth. i do have other additional sensory disabilities as well. Now jump say 150 years into the future when genetic babies are the norm. Would i be born? Nope probably not. So it comes down to this. Why should i be denied the right to be born when i lead a perfectly normal life give or take some sensory disabilities. You see this is the ethical dilema that we all face. I would not be writing this on ATS if genetic selection and designer babies became the norm ! Because i would never have existed.

Originally posted by runetang

Originally posted by Nyorai

Ah yes, I can see this playing out in the future.

Man creates a subhuman to do their bidding. The subhuman learns how to reproduce or grow or escape, and man abandons them on another planet and leads them through their own civilizations laddy daddy da. Sound familiar?

Hmm... we could be the new gods.

This is precisely my worry. There has been some talk of the human race splitting in twain, with the elites being the educated, wealthiest, best-healthcare, from the best genetic stock, "type A" humans, while the "type B" human will be the unintelligent, uneducated, badly diseased/malnourished/birth defected etc, poor, not from the best genetic stock. Your slave-like lackies, basically.

And theres proponents of this, that want to see that happen to the human race. If/when it does, it'll be terrible. How do you enforce no interbreeding between type A's and type B's? make sure that every type A has perfect DNA from the test tube, while allowing the type B's to only be created through natural reproduction. On top of this, all type A's would be infertile via an operation or medication, or made that way in the test tube. This is so they can safeguard the genes from rape etc. If a type A wants a child, a sample of their DNA is taken and the child is created in a test tube under controlled conditions. Type A's will only have sex for pleasure, and with other Type A's. If they want a Type B as a "sex slave", there would be no risk of an offspring.

Crazyness ..

Community, Identity, Stability....

The Director of Hatcheries explains to a group of students:

"The Predestinators send in their figures to the Fertilizers" "who give them the embryos they ask for"
"In the vast majority of cases, fertility is a mere nuisance. One fertile ovary in twelve hundred-that would really be quite sufficient for our purposes."
"Out of the realm of mere slavish imitation of nature into the much more interesting world of human invention"

He rubbed his hands. For of course, they didnt content themselves with merely hatching out embryos: any cow could do that.

"We also predestine and condition. We decant our babies as socialized human beings, as Alphas or Epsilons,, as future sewage workers or future..." He was going to say "future World controllers," but correcting himself, said "future Directors of Hatcheries", instead.

"Nothing like oxygen-shortage for keeping an embryo below par" Again he rubbed his hands.

"But why do you want to keep the embryo below par?" asked an ingenuous student.

"Ass!" said the DIrector, breaking a long silence. "Hasn't it occurred to you that an Epsilon embryo must have an Epsilon environment as well as Epsilon heredity?"

It evidently hadn't occurred to him. He was covered with confusion.

"The lower the caste," said Mr. Foster, "the shorter the oxygen" The first organ affected was the brain. After that the skeleton. At seventy per cent of normal oxygen you got dwarfs. At less than seventy eyeless monsters.

"In Epsilons we don't need human intelligence" Didn't need it and didn't get it.

"I suppose Epsilons don't really mind being Epsilons,"

"Of course they don't. How can they? they don't know what it's like to be anything else. We'd mind, of course. But then we've been differently conditioned. Besides, we start with a different heredity."

Aldlous Huxley wrote these words nearly 80 years ago in his masterpiece about Eugenics "A Brave New World". Towards the end of his life he commented that he didnt really make up the concept of Eugenics, but rather learned of it because it was the topic of discussion within his elitist family......

Very intresting thread here. I too share some of the concerns and for the same reasons of many of the posters here. Ethics. Do the liabilitys outweight the benifits over the long run?

I would also like to state that the concept of playing god..is a concept that has been going on for thousands of years of recorded history. It is just that in our poor education systems today...so few are taught to connect the gods. or dots. Much is missing from our knowlege of history.

THe Emperors ..they were god men...god with us..here on earth. Pharaoh, the oriental Emperors..in Japan and China...The divine gods. This should be obvious as to what it meant in the sunburst in the pre WW2 Japanesse flag. The sunburst with the rays extending from the Sun. After WW2 the sun remained but the rays were gone. This is also what is symboliized in Ancient Egypt in the carvings on many of the tombs with the suns rays extending down on Egypt and the PHaraohs The ank or the cross with the little loop on the top of it meant .. "for life."
This is nothing more than men setting themselves up as gods.

The Feudal system itself is the exact same system...royalty. God men more divine than the rest of us. Worth of more than the rest and more worthy to rule. The feudal system is the most common system of government in the world always has been and always will be. It has variations but when you peel back the veneer it is always the same underneath.

Want to see something frightening..check this site out on the Georgia Guide Stones. Now this is feudalism...and frightening if you grasp what is implied by the carvings on these stones.

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

There are several sites on the Georgia Guidestones but I posted this one . YOu can find them yourself just under the name Georgia Guidestones in any search engine. I only ran across this site while surfing different postings on ATS/BTS and in the last month. I was greatly disturbed by this discovery. Talk about playing god. And this is without cloning technology.
This is the United Nations position and it is also the enviornmental position...carried to its ultimate conclusion. Any time I watch one of these enviornmental people making fright speechs I realize that this is what they are paving the road for and the direction they intend to go. To rid the earth of most of its people. I have no doubts about this. This message comes through clearly in all thier speechs.

YOu see...cloning or not..someone is and always has been in the position of wanting to play god or be god..demigods here on earth.

As to robots....I submit to the readers here that we are already there. Have been for years now. We have a populace who are raised on a television/movie diet. They have little experiences of their own. Their values and thinking are already seduced by public education/television/movie education. You can see this clearly by the nature of many of the posts here on ATS/BTS. People cannot describe a thought or principal on their own merits or demerits..they must cede the point to a movie or television program they have watched.
They have been fed, raised, watered and educated in front of this medium.They are robots/automatons and dont often know it. Even their emotions are often not thier own.They are so often and obviously pre programmed. I have often thought to myself that this is one of the reasons for a site like ATS/BTS..to measure across a spectrum the amount and effectiveness of this programming amongn humans.A seperate sampling station so to speak, outside the spectrum of television and public education.
By the way. I have for years now thought that this is one of the primary purposes of public education..to support the feudal system and identify those who have the potential to think and conduct themselves outside of the intended system. Computers just afford the ability to measure and collate information of this type both inside and outside the public education system.

Well....I could go on..but some of you will get the point. Some will think this is crazy. No matter to me.
THe point is that robots/clones are already here..have been for years and years now. Propaganda/education/conditioning are a very powerful tool to get people to respond predictably. Very effective too. IF this were not so...why would commercials in the media be so prevalent to sell products if they were not effective?? I refer also to election programming/propaganda with the media as willing shills/partners for this control device.

Some of you have valid reasons for your concerns. I merely point out that much of your concerns have been here in existance for years now and going back to ancient times.

Thanks,
Orangetom

reply to post by angryamerican


if we were allowed to create life as we know it in our present limited state of reasoning--our creation would end up hating us and then try to exterminate us--and i wouldn't blame it.

only Creators with ethics should be allowed to create new lifeforms---we seem to have a problem being ethical at this stage of our development.

if we were ethical why are there so many wars and so much crime?

Yeah, but what if God is just a crazy ass scientist that created all of us? Then we have the power to create an intelligent race of people, and make them live on an island somewhere, and we can watch them develop, and start wars with each other. . . I'd watch that show!

This happened in Noahs time Genesis 6, all the creatures of the world were also becoming currupted genetically, as well as Man Giants that were born. It makes sense suppose, I do wonder if dinosaurs were actually gentically modified animals, maybe that is why they never made it to the Ark either. Just a self prognosis of a theory, but Jesus said as the times of Noah so shall the son of man be. Meaning we are heading that way again, this going by all the years of self searching conspiracies to how the world is fitting into prophectic patterns.