Why question the holocaust?

reply to post by Konfused


Cause that thought is a farce. As well as overly simplistic.
It was a nation blaming its woes on one group of its citizenry.
Hitler was not alone you know.
German soldiers from WWI blamed their defeat partially on Jews.
The stupidity spread.
Would it shock you to know Hitler did not start out as a antisemist?

I'll answer the question posed in the thread title with a question of my own

Why not?

Why, out of every major historical event that has ever taken place, is "The Holocaust" the only one we are taught to never question. This is a case in which we are supposed to accept the "facts" as presented, without ever doubting a single "witness statement." The main thing that piques my interest is the fact the agreed upon story has changed so much over the years it is hard to gauge what you are actually questioning.

CT

Why question the Holocaust?
Here's why... Please, someone, post a photocopied list of Jewish names from a concentration camp. any camp, it does not have to be a death camp. The Nazis were meticulous record keepers and as such some records should be available.
The icing on my 'proof cake' would be a list of Jews slated for extermination.\
Any document will do. Documents from the Irish Potato Holocaust can be easily found, including lists of names of people in the works camps, deaths, etc. and that was 150 years ago, not 70.
Please post documents.
Note: They must be pictures of photocopied documents, not stories or places to find documents, but actual pictures of the documents themselves.

"The Holocaust" happened, but it pales in comparison to many other Holocaust's of WWII.

Not only was there a Jewish Holocaust, but also a Russian Holocaust, a Chinese Holocaust, a Japanese Holocaust, ect ect ect....

The Jewish Holocaust is the most popular, because the Jews have put it into film, and popular culture much more effectively than say the Russians, or the Chinese.

[edit on 27-1-2008 by downtown436]

Originally posted by doctormcauley
Why question the Holocaust?
Here's why... Please, someone, post a photocopied list of Jewish names from a concentration camp. any camp, it does not have to be a death camp. The Nazis were meticulous record keepers and as such some records should be available.

I believe it was MacLeans that recently reported that those files had just been opened up. Literally MILES of records.

I believe one of the main reasons people question the holocaust is to maintain our right to do so. Nothing in life should be taking as a certainty and any theory with evidence can and should be expressed even if it goes against common beliefs.
If we don't it would become the norm to not question what we are taught and so our society will no longer advance.

i know somewhere on this site there was a good debate on both sides of the Holocaust question. It was a good read, but i have no idea where it is. If someone posts it i recommend reading it.

Right, I'll have a nosey for it.

I'm new here so can you explain to me the deal with the points?

why question 9/11, or the Kennedy assassination? I mean, the official documents are there and the official evidence is there.

very few people out there actually believe that it didn't happen. However, it should be up for debate as to certain aspects of it. Like 9/11. Nobody's gonna say it didn't happen. Its the details that people argue over.

[edit on 27-1-2008 by italkyoulisten]

IHR.org and Codoh.com. Read both sides and decide which side is more likely the truth. What propaganda did we drop during the war, and for what reasons? Having won the war, would we correct what propaganda we'd claimed? Do we gain more with continuing the propaganda, or by telling the truth? Logistically, is it possible what the war-winner history books say? Could the Germans really have been so clever, secretive, and succesfull? If the Germans really wanted to kill them, would they really have chosen to poison them in confined space? We've got underground sensors now. What's really under these mass-grave sites that we're forbidden from digging up? Were there hospitals, and swimming pools in the camps? Did the doors to the death rooms open inward or outward? Did they have locks? Were any records of people dying of old age found? Turn off your emotions for a while. Pretend your Mr Spock. Which side of the argument do you think is more likely. Codoh.com and IHR.org.

Any event in History can be questioned, sure someone may have a specific motive for questioning the Holocaust but we can use these steps logically to make things clearer:
-Any memory you have will not give you an accurate account of what you "think" happened.
-Two people may have been in the same place at the same time and have a completely different story
-The Chinese have managed to alter their own take on historic events effectively, since certain people are taught one thing and may not have access to the truth those people have no choice but to believe an event happened(ie Tibet)
-Not all recorded documents are truthful and accurate ie: the Bible, many believe it to be fact and many believe it to be fiction.
-The only moment or time in history we can observe and accept as factual is now.

With the above examples and logic you may be able to see that any recording event is limited to these variables:
-Recorded documentation(ie movies, pictures)
-Accuracy of ones recount of an event(memory is noted as inaccurate above)
-Physical evidence of an event
-Translation
-Intentional adjustment of a recount to server a purpose(ie China and TIbet)

Don't think I'm making sense here but imo no Historic even can be proven as recorded correctly.

This was a horrible, disgraceful event in human history. Any arguments? -----------PC

According to all sources, the gas chambers were air-tight and sealed to prevent to leaking of deadly gas....sealed, air-tight. Why even bother to use gas at all, when time would suffice to do the job cheaper?
Hell, the Nazis were Nazis, they wouldn't have wasted valuable disinfectant on Jews, when there was a Typhus epidemic of near-biblical proportions occurring all over Eastern Europe.

Air-tight and sealed Rooms do not need anything but time to kill you, and very little of that is needed. Rooms are also called chambers. Gas is evil, from WW1, and so are Nazis.

[edit on 27-1-2008 by doctormcauley]

Originally posted by jpm1602
You have a point former op, the point of which somehow killing was somehow ok if it was only 6 thousand, instead of 6 million

Red herring. There is a 1000 times difference between six thousand and six million. Don't plead ignorance to that fact. It was not OK, just like any single murder is not.

The scale of the massacre, (with dubious documentation) was used by the Zionist movement to achieve their ends. The SCALE, mind you. The ALLEGED scale.

Originally posted by pc is here
This was a horrible, disgraceful event in human history. Any arguments?

And there were, unfortunately, thousands of others on that or a bigger scale... Any arguments?

Because the Holocaust has been given too much attention, and too much of the wrong kind of attention, to the point of being counterproductive?

When was the last time that other genocides, such as the Holodomor, Metz Yegern, or Pol Pot's Year Zero have had the same attention from society, the media, and academia? When was the last time that Spielberg made a tear-jerker movie about the genocide in Darfur which is going on right now as we sit here?

Because some unscrupulous communist and reverse-fascist demogogues have used the Holocaust as a guit trip to torment non-PC white, male, Christian youth?

Don't get me wrong, please. The holocaust did happen and was every bit as horrible as it looked. But it was not unique!! Treating it as though it was a unique freak abberration of human nature undermines the real tragedy of tribalism.

And what of the worldwide persecution of neuro-atypical people who lack the protection of any sort of tribe?

I'd think that ATS would start a Holocaust conspiracy forum. Maybe they could call it "Holohoax discussion"

They are already anti-american with the 9/11 forum, anti-Nasa with the John Lear forum, Anti-government with the Katrina forum and others, anti-media with the Media/disinfo forum, etc... etc...

So why not introduce a little anti-semitism into the mix? ATS should do it just to see how long it takes the ADL to jump on their backs, turning this site into a "Jewish hate site."

Why question 9/11?
Why question the government?
Why question NASA?
Why question your boss?
Why question your friends?
Why question if life exists elsewhere?
Why question the economy?
Why question the official story on anything?
Why question the police?

... Why question yourself?

Originally posted by Maverickhunter
Why do people doubt the holocaust happened? What else would have killed all of those people? Why are people even questioning the validity of the event?

There is accounts of disease killing the Inmates of Treblinka. Sobibor and Auswichtz which figured prominantly in the Neuremburg trials after WW2. These are the well known camps and all of them were in Poland so its interesting that camps not in Germany figured so highly in the deaths.

The reason I personally question the Holocaust isn't the fact that it happend but just the amount killed deliberately by the Germans as a direct result of gasing/burning or starving. Its so easy to just lump any Victim into the basket of "The Germans Killed Them" when in fact some researchers claim it was physically impossible to have killed so many in such a small time frame.

I certainly found the account of one indiviual sufferer of the Camp in Sobibor who stated that a German Soldier tore in half a victim....how absurd is that ? an average person could not even tear in half a cat let alone a human. So do you totally discount the rest of his account ? perhaps.

As per my prior request, no one has yet to post any documents, or links to documents of any kind. Not one list of names has been provided here on any jewish holocaust thread, but it is here that I requested some sort of proof.

If you sincerely believe everything about the holocaust, then you must have seen some kind of proof to sway you to that position. All I want is to see some pictures of documents, or links to them so that I can believe what you believe as fully as you believe it.

No one will be able to find any, or link any but I do expect to have a lot of links/pics to stories, witness accounts posted, but nobody will actually be able to produce an official Document from a WW2 Nazi death camp with names of jews slated for death. Just one official WW2 document will do, it doesn't even have to be from a death camp.
I can't find any, anywhere. Please help me as I want to believe that the jews are truly justified in killing all those Palestinians these past sixty years.

"No Documents No History!"

Originally posted by mazzroth
I certainly found the account of one indiviual sufferer of the Camp in Sobibor who stated that a German Soldier tore in half a victim....how absurd is that ? an average person could not even tear in half a cat let alone a human. So do you totally discount the rest of his account ? perhaps.

You can't trust the witnesses who were famished, diseased, dying, and psychologically inempt, hallucinating from extreme mental and physical stress. These people were operating near death with a complete lack of mental fortitude and most wouldn't have been able to really understand what was going on.

They see diseased/rotting corpses being put into mass graves, or a Nazi shooting a crazed pol, and they can come to all types of conclusions... such as monster Nazis ripping people apart like phonebooks.